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Ok, so where does your God come from? What caused it to be allpowerfull? Assuming it has always been around is proof of limited thinking and narrow mindedness if you ask me.

No I am not limited in thinking of an unlimited God. This thread is for talking about the infinite and God is infinite,by the very definition of God. There are no limits on my mind.

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Time doesn't require a creation

Perhaps, but time as we know it needed a creation. All the laws that govern nature and the universe depend upon time as we know it. For example the speed of light would be impossible to calculate without a time referential.

However God has no beginning, so He doesnt have the same concept of time as we do.

You can ask me what God's cause was, and then ask where that came from, and then ask where that came from for an infinte amount of times but eventually you have to settle on an original cause which has existed from time immemorial.

So hopefully you can understand the point that I am trying to make when I say that the original cause would have to had been seperate from the effect.

God would have been seperate from time as we know it. As a matter of fact according to the Bible, time is almost meaningless to God, because the Bible says that "a day is like a thousand years to the Lord"

So as you said, time does not have to be created. But time for US started with the point in time in which this universe came into existence.

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space doesn't need a creation either

Once again, our space needs a creation. The Bible talks about heaven and hell. Neither of these places exist in "our space" or "our universe".

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As for matter, if there's time and space and things can spontaniously come into existence simply because they can (no cause or no visible or provable cause), then I still don't see a reason for any God to be involved in the process

Because all matter couldnt have spontaneously generated, there has to be a source.


Once again, if your mind can only accept what you can observe, or what you have knowledge of I really think you are limited. I am not condemning you for this limited thinking, I am just pointing out that for me personally I must allow my thoughts the freedom of faith and belief. To me personally, I would be denying intuition and instinct within my own mind, and I dont like to deny my mind

We Christians do not deny science at all, becuase that also would be a limit. We accept science, but we accept God also, which we perceive as superior to science.

It is really a question of who or what God means to you. You say that you have no God, yet you most certainly do. Listen carefully: "Whatever you accept as the final authority is your God" So you accept science and observation as the final authority in your lives. Science determines your world view. Thereby science influences your action, your decisions, and your speech.

Christians also accept science, but we do NOT accept it as final authority. We recognize that science is limited and incomplete and often wrong. We recognize that science cannot give us all the answers. Especially answers about our origins. So we accept the God of the Bible as the final authority, so He is our God.

Taking my example further, there are many many people on the earth who dont consider cosmology or abiogenesis at all. They neither have Judeo-Christian God, NOR science for their final authority. Maybe they have their girlfriend for their final authority, maybe their school peers, maybe their jobs, sports, etc etc

Christians have all those things also, but we consider them as idols if they come before the final authority of the Bible, because Christians see the Word Of God itself(contained within the Bible) to be God. In other words we consider the Word of God as God Himself. THere is no seperation between what God said and who God is. So an atheist might take science to be his "word of god".

So to make a long story short you trust Newton, Einstein and Darwin as the final authority. We Christians also trust those guys, but not as the final authority.

But we dont condemn you for your beliefs, sometimes I get a little angry if things dont go my way, just like everyone else, but I dont hold any grudges and at the end of the day I think every ones opinion is important.

But yes I do feel bad if you cannot see what I consider the limitless wonders of God, and I feel that you are trapped to a meaningless worldview which I am powerless to help you overcome.

Science is your god, and your god cares nothing for you.