Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
|
Quote:
Quote:
Doesn't the bible say that 'when you believe, be prepared because then the world will become a more hostile environment' or something along those lines? That would mean I'll be fine.
Its funny watching the way atheists view the bible. Playing the 'devil's advocate' as you do in a sense here, you're admitting that you'll trade your soul because people will go as far as despising, persecuting, making fun of, and even killing you. Interesting.
I see what you mean, but I've meant it slightly different. Who is going to fall for a trap construction like that? It's basically stating that you better believe in it on one hand, but on the other hand it claims there's no way back and the world will become more hostile. It seems to me you've sold your soul instead my friend. Anyways, back on topic and I'm not going to sell my soul, since there is no buyer anyway.
Quote:
The quote you're referring to admits that they can't prove 'cause.' However, that doesn't really mean anything to a rational person, which is the sort of logic I've seen you use time and again. For instance, I can't really prove gravity, but I can prove its effects. Our experience always confirms it, just like Horner said.
In fact, to say that something can exist without cause is completely irrational. Unless you can point me to an example of something on the scale of our universe existing without cause? Even a fraction of the scale?
I have to admit that I've mixed up 'purpose' and 'cause' a bit earlier, however it doesn't really matter.
Cause in my opinion doesn't really exist at all, or can be many things.
For example push one of your keyboard's buttons. Let's assume you've pushed the button with number [1/!] Then what caused the button to be pushed and the number 1 to be displayed on screen? Was it your action of actually pressing the button or was it your mind causing you to take action? Or was it my text telling you to do so as an example? Well there you go, at least 3 possible and very true causes. One could even go further and state that the manufacturer cause the button to be made and thát made it possible in the first place to use that particular button, so infact the manufacturer caused the 1 to appear on screen. Yes, it's farfetched off course, however without the manufacturer making that button, there would be no button to push.
The reason why you won't find anything without a cause, is because a cause can be so much things. The reason I've mentioned 'time' is because 1 minute is time, 2 hours is time but millions of years is also time. Time is a natural but artificial indicator or factor in order for our minds to make sure events that happen make sense in a way. The same way that we need 'causes' in order for events to make even more sense.
Yes, actions require time in a way, however you can label those required moments with anything you want, we've just agreed upon the 'seconds, minutes, hours'(there's more to it) time system. You see, it's artificial. Having said that, this does not imply it's useless, same goes for 'cause'.
If God exists then he would have a cause, right? Nothing can exist without cause, you've stated yourself that no rational thinking person can state otherwise. Infact I would go even further, if God exists, then what caused or created God? You see, it doesn't make sense. Infinite amounts of creators, (who created the creator of God?) or another cause would be needed for a God to even possibly exist. I thought the Bible said there's only 1 God, so that would clearly leave that question unsatisfiedly open, or did your God came from nothing?
I believe the origin of everything lies in the fact that it came from something, not that it came from nothing. Infact there's no evidence we know off that something can come from nothing, so I definately don't believe in such a theory, however when you go far enough back in your theory, you do state that something came from nothing.
Quote:
Seeing is believing.
Quite. In that case you won't mind if I don't believe macro evolution or the big bang. But then you'll excuse me for believing in God. I can see the universe, I can see the laws that reveal its inability to create itself. Therefore, seeing is believing and I believe in God.
You may believe whatever you want, that's your right off course.
However you haven't literally seen God, so why do you believe in him anyways? We find all sorts of causes for events that have happened and none of any event you can possibly think off explicitely needs a God as cause.
We may very well be looking at the effects of explainable or not yet explainable causes, but where's the evidence that clears this gap so to speak and makes a God as cause 'needed' in the first place? Give me one example of an event that needs a God.
Cheers
Last edited by PHeMoX; 06/01/06 01:58.
|
