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That's the problem: you won't get the latter without the former.

You do not care about astronomy, i.e. observation of structure and history of the universe, but nevertheless have made up your mind that supernatural events must be involved in this.



Let me just say. I don't not care about astronomy because it offends my beliefs. I just don't care because its not that interesting to me. What little research I've done into it has, if anything, solidified my idea that we were created. However, my main focus of interest in science is biology. That's where I spend most of my time studying and learning, etc. I'm not going to swamp myself with information in every field when I can specialize in one and learn as much as possible about it.

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Science does not care about the existence or nonexistence of gods, as long as they are not observable.



I don't agree. If God could be observed, then that would automatically place Him within the realm of science in which case scientists would care. Since He cannot be observed, scientists don't care. The way I see it.

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"Let's find a theory that describes our observation of the universe as good as possible."



Ok. But if my theory seems to explain nature better to me, then why should it matter that it isn't evolution?

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If you really want to see gods or daemons or supernatural forces in nature, you probably will.



I don't want to see God, believe me. However, I believe that I should see his signature on his creation, which I believe I do. You believe that you should see random chance in the universe, so you do. Silly how that works.

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he'd obviously designed the world in a way consistent with a scientific explanation, and inconsistent with supernaturality.



I agree, but we've wandered far into the realm of speculation, so I don't have to agree with your theories, because according to science, neither of us is right. We can't recreate the big bang, or evolution, so we just have to look at the natural world and see if it reflects evolution or creation. However, science, as evolutionists are quick to point out when you ask them a tough question, isn't meant to deal with absolutes. Just probability, in this case.

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And he'd hate superstition.



Can you clarify what in my position involves supserstition? I believe that God created the universe, probably without the big bang, please tell me what he would hate about this.

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nd the proof that the same happens in the universe is that we see stars forming this way at several places in our and other galaxies.



I was under the impression that we had yet to actually observe a star forming. But that instead we had just observed what we thought would be part of the process of a star forming.

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Do you doubt the existence of heavy elements, or how they were created?



Nope, I just don't think that planets are created the way that astronomers generally agree that they are. As far as I can tell (from what I've read on scientific websites), stars can only be created in a universe where stars already exist. That sounds like a rather unique problem.

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Do you think that heavy elements were created by supernatural forces?



I think that God probably created the Earth all at once, without the aid of exploding stars. I think, according to the materialist model, its unlikely that stars would even exist in the universe.

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This was your argument, if I remember right, why the universe can not be infinite. I admit that I'm now totally lost. Could you explain what "unuseable energy" is?



Well, the universe is expanding is it not? Would this not continually lead the universe on a path towards absolute zero? As stars burn up their fuel, energy is being turned into something relatively 'unusable'. At least if you consider our universe better than a lifeless/dead universe, which I do. In other words, I don't think science allows for the infinite creation of stars unless matter and energy are being fed into the universe from some supernatural source.

Last edited by Irish_Farmer; 05/27/06 22:50.
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