I'll be away next week and won't post here for a while, but I think this thread has anyway already covered the most common arguments in a discussion between believers and non-believers in creationism. So it's time for a personal summary.

This is what I learned from this thread so far:

- The peppered moth phenomenon was probably caused by a gene shift and not by a mutation. Thus it's not so strong evidence for evolution as I thought before.

- Creatonists don't like to discuss creationism. They definitely prefer to discuss evolution.

- For this reason I still have only a vague idea about a creationist theory, or about whether such a theory exists at all.

- Besides the more funny arguments from some creationist websites (probability, thermodynamics, size of Mississippi delta etc.), the main critics on evolution discussed here was the lack of direct observation of grand scale mutations and macroevolution. Both evolution as well as creationism agree that macro evolution can not be directly observed, but draw different conclusions.

- No non-believer converted to creationism during the discussion, and no creationism believer lost his belief. I guess the only way to change sides in such a conflict is normally by a huge personal paradign shift - triggered, for instance, by studying biology. This is not something that could be achieved by a discussion.

- The initial poll hints that creationists are only a small minority. Is this a sign for the near end of US creationism? Probably not, as this forum is not representative - forum members are from all over the world and and are better than average educated. According to polls, 60% in the US still believe in creationism, and 8% in Germany. Both numbers are decreasing.


Anyway, I'm looking forward to possibly some new arguments in a week from now.