I have seen this on so many forums, people saying this and that about different engines,middleware and software developement kits, but the truth is how many actual games are made by anyone on any of the game engine forums,the fact is indie games are never going to be next gen,thats why we use engines that cost less than $5,000, if we wanted to make a next gen game we would need a budget running into millions. But we can make games of doom 3 quality with any of the indie game engines.You all talk about workflow but its the end product that matters.Its like some people say blender is a hard program to learn and the ui is crap, but it still can give same quality as 3ds max or maya.