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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: Marco_Grubert]
#66506
03/28/06 21:41
03/28/06 21:41
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
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Quote:
There are ways to reconcile religion and science without looking like a fool, claiming that scientists are either all dumb or part of a huge conspiracy against your favorite religion is not one of them.
Precisely. There is no way to scientifically prove the existence OR non-existence of God. Yet there are still plenty of Christian scientists who study physical law. Just because I believe in God does not mean I reject the science which makes my car operate. The difference between science is that a scientist studies how things work and a philosopher studies why things work.
The reason we have non-sensical theories like evolution and "multiple parallel universes" is because science is trying to figure out why we are here instead of just understanding laws that govern our present existence.
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: Marco_Grubert]
#66507
03/28/06 23:14
03/28/06 23:14
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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As always, as on every internet forum, two sides continuously fight to disprove each other with indepth descriptions of each other's hyprocrasies. This evolution/creation crap is getting reeeaall old and brings absolutely nothing new to the table.
Creationists put their "faith in god", yet dont realize evolutionists dont. Stop preaching about your faith, cause it gives you no foundation in their eyes. They want cold hard facts with mathematical equations and the like. Evolutionists live by sight, not by faith. The dead ends the creationsists see in evolution are the same dead ends evolutionsists see in creation. So please stop preaching.
Evolutionists seek for every contradiction, every hypocrasy, every mistake in the basis of the creation and the creationist's explanation of his god and his works. This is of course nessisary because faith and god are too vauge to be written down into understandable terms for evolutionists. Yet evolutionists unknowingly use BLIND FAITH just like creationists when they attempt to explain the big bang or evolution. You can use all the sedimentary rock fossils and slowley "changing" bone structures all you want, but you still havent proven anything. Neither of the sides have, and never will.
when will you dummies learn that no one of either side of creation or evolution will be converted from some off-topic off shoot of a videogame forum? Im pretty sure the meaning of life cant be found on some internet forum.
Go ahead, pick apart my sentences and show my hyposcrasies, idiosyncrasies and the like. The fact is, neither of us are going to change.
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: NITRO777]
#66509
03/29/06 00:05
03/29/06 00:05
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I take that back if i could, its not a war nor a fight at all. If anything, I used the term to describe the backandforth-ness/stalemate of these discussions. You can give me that.
Of course no one is converting anyone, but "for doubters of god's existence" sure sounds like a subtle cue to cause SOME sort of dissention against the opposite beleif. People dont care about other people's opinion until it grates against their own. "I like chocolate" and "I like locating forum members and kiling them" are examples, but one is made to get a rouse from someone.
Nevertheless, I still don't find anything fruitfull of these discussions. For every pro-creation site you will find an equally equipped pro-evolution site. By that I mean for every "accurate" site that provides plenty of information reguarding a side, there is another one effectivly nullifying the previous site. Which brings the point of, running but staying in the same place. Youve gotten nowhere with alot of work.
I dont know too much about the bible but I do recall Solomon travailing in his revelation about groaning with too much knowledge. He was granted the wisdom of God supposedly, but still he ended up silly as any other man. He had gotten nowhere with that wisdom.
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
#66510
03/29/06 00:17
03/29/06 00:17
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 535
Michigan
ICEman
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 I agree with Nitro..I dont just have my opinion because I have it.. Oposing viewpoints are an important part of forming ones view on things. It doesnt become a war until you get offended and hostile. To me, in order to form a logical view, you have to understand and dissect all sides, just like a judge. Personally I think this particular debate is sorta moot just because no side knows more truth than the other, really. I figure we'll find out eventually, but its fun to entertain as long as it remains mature and civil and you come with an open mind .
I'm ICEman, and I approved this message.
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: NITRO777]
#66511
03/29/06 00:58
03/29/06 00:58
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,131
Matt_Aufderheide
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Quote:
The reason we have non-sensical theories like evolution ... is because science is trying to figure out why we are here instead of just understanding laws that govern our present existence.
How can you say evolution is non-sensical?.. its about the most elegant scientific theory in history. It explains so much. All scientists accept evolution. If you don't you are denying the validity of science and the scientific method, so you might as well give up the science that makes your car work. That evolution occurs is settled fact, and there is no debate or controversy. How it occurs is indeed debated. But there is no question that is does. It is as certain as anything we know.
Do you even have a basic understanding of Darwinian evolution? That the evidence in the fossil record only suports and confirms what can readily be observed in nature? Darwin developed his theory after examining isolated populations of animals in the Galapagos Islnads. He found that the species there were very similar, obviously derived from, specias formt he South American mainland. But that each speicas had apparently aquired adaptations to specifc environmental conditions. For instance, very closely related birds had differnt beak lengths and so on.. which could be explained by feeding methods and availablitiy of food.
This was the beginning of the theory, and this is how science works, forming a general conclusion from specific evidence. Since his time, much more has been learned, and eveything confirms that the principle is sound. In fact evolution is the BASIS of all the biological sciences. Modern biology started with Darwin.
Indeed, if you take away evolution, nothing makes sense in biology. Genetics becomes arbitrary and meaningless. Taxonomies are irrelevant. There might as well be no relationship between the species. It it would like taking Newton away from physics, because he is cornerstone of physical theory, even he has been since superseeded by improved theories.
Therefore, if you insist on denying evolution, you deny science--pure and simple. You are free to live in your delusions, but dont expect intelligent poeple to take you seriously.
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: Matt_Aufderheide]
#66512
03/29/06 01:38
03/29/06 01:38
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
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Quote:
All scientists accept evolution.
What is all scientists? What qualifies one as a scientist in your opinion? Are you talking about people with associate degrees? Probably not.How about people with bachelors degrees? Probably not. How about a masters? Or do we need a Phd to be considered a scientist? Lets just assume that by "all scientists" you mean only people with PhD's. And to further refine our group, lets only choose people that have PhD's with Biological background, because a PhD in law or economics would not help us very much with the study of life.
All physicians have a strong biological background and all physicians have PhD's, so therefore they would have to qualify as your group of "All scientists". There have been several studies which have shown that the majority of physicians believe in God, miracles and creation, including this one:
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/dec/04122202.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42061
I have known doctors and biologists who have degrees up to their elbows which believe in God and are very much convinced of the complete farce of evolution. So please do not come up with these ridiculous, unsupported statements about "all scientist."
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Do you even have a basic understanding of Darwinian evolution?
As a matter of fact I do, and Darwin himself knew that all his theories depended upon finding intermediate fossils which he assumed a later generation would find. We never found them.
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He found that the species there were very similar, obviously derived from, specias formt he South American mainland.
obviously derived from? What species obvously derives from what other species? You cant put a monkey next to a man and say that man is obviously deriven from monkeys, thats not scientific at all.
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But that each speicas had apparently aquired adaptations to specifc environmental conditions. For instance, very closely related birds had differnt beak lengths and so on.. which could be explained by feeding methods and availablitiy of food.
Adaptation is NOT evolution, now Im wondering if YOU have any knowledge of the basic of Darwin's theory.
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This was the beginning of the theory, and this is how science works, forming a general conclusion from specific evidence. Since his time, much more has been learned, and eveything confirms that the principle is sound. In fact evolution is the BASIS of all the biological sciences. Modern biology started with Darwin.
Once again your coming out with all kinds of statements that have no scientific basis at all.
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Genetics becomes arbitrary and meaningless.
How?
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Taxonomies are irrelevant.
So it becomes irrelevant to name species? How are we going to classify things?
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It it would like taking Newton away from physics, because he is cornerstone of physical theory
Newton had math and science experimentation to back him up, Darwin has nothing. And Newton was a very sold out fanatical born again Christian.
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but dont expect intelligent poeple to take you seriously.
What intelligent people? I dont see any intelligence at all in the post you made. It was just a bunch of opinion and rhetoric.
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: Matt_Aufderheide]
#66513
03/29/06 01:38
03/29/06 01:38
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 535
Michigan
ICEman
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I laugh at the concept of us coming from monkeys when human (close to modern human) remains have been found that predate almost all of the ape to man stuff. I only think it's ridiculous because the complexity of mutation suggested by Darwin is far too complex. (i.e. Mammalian descendants cannot come from amphibians who came from fish. That is far too radical of a transformation on the DNA level to have occured in only a few billion years.) My belief is that modern man is a descendant of earlier man... a man that we will be able to prove did exist once we are able to scientifically analyze the remains we have found. Currently, the age of these remains is estimated around 3 billion years..but they were so old that carbon dating couldnt be applied to them. Obviously sapienite variations of primate did exist, but I don't believe that the origins of man as we see it today came directly from them..especially when new evidence of man that more closely resembles modern man is being uncovered. Right now I make no sense, but I'll bring some evidence to the table soon. I'm still researching, in part because I'm formulating my own theory of evolution.. one which hopefully makes more sense than Darwinist evolution. I am researching because I am having trouble myself placing us beyond 200 million years ago.. when the split of Pangea took place.
I'm ICEman, and I approved this message.
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: Neonotso]
#66515
03/29/06 02:35
03/29/06 02:35
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 535
Michigan
ICEman
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xD jejeje..oh..oops well. I respect your opinion but um..come on 6000 years? I have gym shoes older than that, dude. I can believe the dinosaurs.. There's alot of undiscovered country on earth, we can't rightly say what exists and what doesnt.
I'm ICEman, and I approved this message.
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