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#470939 - 02/13/18 14:58 Zorro's Quality
kujo Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 129
Loc: Halifax, NS
Hello JCL,

There is no need to say about numerous Zorro's advantages. We all know them. That's why we use this tool. However, I'd like to know what do you think about Zorro's quality? I'm pretty familiar with the software development process and quality metrics. So, it clear for me that bugs are an inevitable thing when it comes to softdev.

I wonder what's your opinion about this? Is the number of bugs within industry softdev standards? Or you believe that there is a room for improvement? In this case it would be interesting to know Zorro's roadmap regarding achieving higher quality standards.

Thank you!

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#470940 - 02/13/18 15:22 Re: Zorro's Quality [Re: kujo]
Hredot Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/17
Posts: 229
Excited to hear the response as well!

*drumroll*

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#470949 - 02/14/18 08:42 Re: Zorro's Quality [Re: Hredot]
jcl Offline

Chief Engineer

Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 26529
Loc: Frankfurt
Good topic, but possibly wrong question. To answer nevertheless, I believe we have less bugs than Microsoft, and because we're continously working on improving our QM, there's apparently always room for it.

The right questions about software quality would be probably how we measure quality, are we ISO certified, how support is organized, etc.

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#470965 - 02/14/18 15:04 Re: Zorro's Quality [Re: jcl]
Hredot Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/17
Posts: 229
jcl,

How do you measure quality?
Are you ISO certified?
How do you organize support?

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#470968 - 02/14/18 17:03 Re: Zorro's Quality [Re: Hredot]
jcl Offline

Chief Engineer

Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 26529
Loc: Frankfurt
I like it when my advice is heeded. For measuring software quality there are key performance indicators, of which we have about 20. Examples of KPIs are: bugs per code found in internal tests, bugs per code found by users, average time to fix a bug, average time to answer a support question.

The Gamestudio development process is ISO 9001 certified, the Zorro development process is not.

Support is done by the freelancers who write Zorro scripts for clients and know Zorro in and out. They take turns.

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#470973 - 02/14/18 19:51 Re: Zorro's Quality [Re: jcl]
Hredot Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/17
Posts: 229
I see, thank you for the answers!
Any plans to obtain ISO 9001 certification for the Zorro development process in the near future?

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#470979 - 02/15/18 11:11 Re: Zorro's Quality [Re: Hredot]
jcl Offline

Chief Engineer

Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 26529
Loc: Frankfurt
If clients need it and are willing to pay, then yes. An ISO 9001 audit with proper preparation is in the 10,000 dollars range.

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#470984 - 02/15/18 13:37 Re: Zorro's Quality [Re: jcl]
kujo Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 129
Loc: Halifax, NS
Thank you!

About support:
Sometimes support experience is great, sometimes it's quite painful. When I write a detailed report and receive a reply "What's wrong?", I think about 2 options: A - support didn't read my message, B - support doesn't bother to look into details. Anyways I need to write again and again to receive a meaningful answer. It's not only mine problem. Nowdays, it's essential to put a client in the center of the room and listen if you want to be successful. Taking these into account, do you have plans to measure customer satisfaction score related to support? This practice became a standard today.

About testing: I wonder how the testing process is organised? By whom the testing is done? What's the number of FTE involved in developing the Zorro's engine? What's the developers:testers ratio? What's the ratio of bugs found in Test compared to Prod (found by users)? Is your testing automated or manual? If you have automated what's the coverage? What's the percentage of code covered be unit testing?
Are the bugs posted on the What's new page tested? Sounds like a silly question but unfortunately not, because I tested some of my bugs and reported them back as not fixed. It was enough not fixed bugs to think that they are not tested
Do you conduct regression and smoke testing before uploading the release version in public (I found critical bugs in Z strategies in the release version)?


Edited by kujo (02/15/18 13:40)

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#470986 - 02/15/18 14:41 Re: Zorro's Quality [Re: kujo]
Hredot Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/17
Posts: 229
I would like to point out that Zorro is currently in the price range of programs such as Mathematica (where you can get a permanent license for just a couple hundred bucks under certain conditions). Functionality density and stability of Zorro compared to Mathematica is night and day. The least a developer could do is have the program development process certified with an official industry standard if they want users to dish out this amount of money for it. - Or, drastically reduce the program cost to emphasize that it is just a "hobbyist, freelancer" effort. (And note that I'm not asking for myself, since I already dished out over 700 bucks for Zorro S.)

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#470987 - 02/15/18 15:15 Re: Zorro's Quality [Re: kujo]
MatPed Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/28/15
Posts: 485
Loc: Milano, Italy
Kujo, I understand your fears,
My understanding is that oP group Germany GmbH is not a big company at all. I am not able to find any financial data on Hoovers and I spent some time making research before deciding to invest my time in learning Zorro.

My conclusion was simple: oP group is closer to a one man show than a 20 FTE company, but they (or he, if you prefer), have developed the most advanced piece of software for algorithmic traders available at this price level (0-400).

There are many other weakness: the community is small, real small. No marketing, Ugly product name (sorry jcl), old style web site and forum,... we can talk about this for hours, but (and is a big BUT) I did not find any platform better than Zorro. Did you?

Finally I decided to buy Zorro S, learn it, find bugs, supporting (little to be honest) the community,...

ciao

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