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Zorro 1.58: Z3 test results different to Z Systems web page? #465931
05/18/17 06:48
05/18/17 06:48
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 19
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PeWi Offline OP
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PeWi  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 19
Hello,

sorry if this is another misunderstanding from a zorro starter.

I started 'test' with the z3 system of a fresh install of Zorro 1.58. The result (with a FXCM Real Account) was:

[...] Capital required 1426$
[...] Annual return 79%

On the web page for the Z Systems (http://manual.zorro-project.com/zsystems.htm) Z3 is listed with:

Required capital: ~900$
Annual return : ~130%

So my result is worse in comparision.

BTW: The test of V1.54 gave me nearly the same result as listed on (the previous version of) the web page.

Now I am confused.

Basically I thought it would be better to use the newer versions of the Z Systems included by a new Zorro version, because they are better adopted to the current market conditions as the older versions which had been fine-tuned some month before.
Also - I thought - newer version might had bug fixes or some improvements.

What would the expierenced Zorro user advise?

Thanks for any help or tip, Peter

Re: Zorro 1.58: Z3 test results different to Z Systems web page? [Re: PeWi] #465937
05/18/17 08:48
05/18/17 08:48
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,978
Frankfurt
jcl Offline

Chief Engineer
jcl  Offline

Chief Engineer

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,978
Frankfurt
Always use the newer version, even if the backtest result is worse than that one from the previous version.

The Z3 annual return is 136% with a fresh installed Zorro 1.58. A different result means that some setting is different, such as a different broker, ini file, slider setting, etc.

Re: Zorro 1.58: Z3 test results different to Z Systems web page? [Re: jcl] #465960
05/18/17 16:56
05/18/17 16:56
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 19
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PeWi Offline OP
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PeWi  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 19
I can't reproduce your Z3 annual return of 136%.

Deleted Zorro directory, install of 1.58, copied the history files *.t6, using fxcm demo account and leaving account name and password empty.
So I have the default ini file, the default slider settings (margin 50, risk 10) and no broker influence hopefully ...

Nevertheless I always get the same result as described in my first post of this thread - req. capital 1426$, AR 79%.

What am I doing wrong to get a such differing result?

Kind regards, Peter

Re: Zorro 1.58: Z3 test results different to Z Systems web page? [Re: PeWi] #465975
05/19/17 07:08
05/19/17 07:08
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,978
Frankfurt
jcl Offline

Chief Engineer
jcl  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,978
Frankfurt
Hmm, something must be different. Maybe some file is missing. Can you post the performance report, and the begin of the log? And check if Z3_1..Z3_9.par are in the Data folder?

Re: Zorro 1.58: Z3 test results different to Z Systems web page? [Re: jcl] #465995
05/19/17 10:44
05/19/17 10:44
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 19
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PeWi Offline OP
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PeWi  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2017
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Dear jcl,

here is the performance report (I hope):

Walk-Forward Test Z3 (TICKS)

Simulated account AssetsFix
Bar period 24 hours (avg 2288 min)
Simulation period 2010-06-07..2017-03-11 (1552 bars)
Test period 2012-07-05..2017-03-11 (1075 bars)
Lookback period 100 bars (20 weeks)
WFO test cycles 9 x 119 bars (24 weeks)
Training cycles 10 x 477 bars (98 weeks)
Monte Carlo cycles 200
Simulation mode Realistic ticks (slippage 5.0 sec)

Gross win/loss 12641$ / -7383$ (+5009p)
Average profit 1124$/year, 94$/month, 4.32$/day
Max drawdown -1568$ 30% (MAE -1649$ 31%)
Total down time 76% (TAE 63%)
Max down time 109 weeks from Nov 2014
Max open margin 171$
Max open risk 3726$
Trade volume 1107433$ (236676$/year)
Transaction costs -638$ spr, -375$ slp, -133$ rol
Capital required 1426$

Number of trades 133 (29/year, 1/week, 1/day)
Percent winning 48.1%
Max win/loss 853$ / -317$
Avg trade profit 40$ 37.7p (+188.1p / -101.9p)
Avg trade slippage -2.82$ -2.7p (+0.2p / -5.4p)
Avg trade bars 6 (+8 / -5)
Max trade bars 46 (9 weeks)
Time in market 82%
Max open trades 4
Max loss streak 6 (uncorrelated 8)

Annual return 79%
Profit factor 1.71 (PRR 1.34)
Sharpe ratio 0.94
Kelly criterion 1.13
R2 coefficient 0.000
Ulcer index 13.1%

Confidence level AR DDMax Capital

10% 133% 841$ 844$
20% 122% 939$ 923$
30% 113% 1024$ 991$
40% 108% 1089$ 1043$
50% 102% 1160$ 1100$
60% 94% 1285$ 1200$
70% 88% 1384$ 1279$
80% 79% 1563$ 1423$
90% 66% 1922$ 1710$
95% 56% 2288$ 2003$
100% 31% 4333$ 3641$

Portfolio analysis OptF ProF Win/Loss Wgt% Cycles

NAS100 avg .015 1.28 16/23 11.6 ///\///
SPX500 avg .010 1.15 9/13 2.3 //././/
US30 avg .067 2.97 21/15 47.1 //./.\//
XAG/USD avg .020 1.65 18/18 39.0 //XXX/\X

NAS100 .030 1.28 16/23 11.6 ///\///
NAS100:L .030 1.28 16/23 11.6 ///\///
NAS100:S .000 ---- 0/0 0.0 .........
SPX500 .021 1.15 9/13 2.3 //././/
SPX500:L .021 1.15 9/13 2.3 //././/
SPX500:S .000 ---- 0/0 0.0 .........
US30 .134 2.97 21/15 47.1 //./.\//
US30:L .134 2.97 21/15 47.1 //./.\//
US30:S .000 ---- 0/0 0.0 .........
XAG/USD .021 1.65 18/18 39.0 //XXX/\X
XAG/USD:L .028 2.13 8/7 29.1 /.///.
XAG/USD:S .012 1.29 10/11 9.9 //\//\/

Re: Zorro 1.58: Z3 test results different to Z Systems web page? [Re: jcl] #465996
05/19/17 10:46
05/19/17 10:46
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 19
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PeWi Offline OP
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PeWi  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 19
Adn here are the first 150 lines of the log:


Multiple assets....
V 1.580 on Thu 17-05-18 17:39:57
Walk-Forward Test: Z3 (TICKS) 2010..2017
Read Z3_1.par
[477: Mon 12-01-30 00:03] 12733/1277712633/12665
[478: Tue 12-01-31 00:03] 12665/1266812532/12662
[479: Wed 12-02-01 00:03] 12662/1274012568/12628
[480: Thu 12-02-02 00:03] 12628/1279112608/12726
[481: Fri 12-02-03 00:03] 12726/1275812679/12720
[482: Mon 12-02-06 00:03] 12720/1287412703/12831
[483: Tue 12-02-07 00:03] 12831/1284712776/12833
[484: Wed 12-02-08 00:03] 12833/1290312782/12864
[485: Thu 12-02-09 00:03] 12864/1291312819/12857
[486: Fri 12-02-10 00:03] 12857/1293412833/12870
[487: Mon 12-02-13 00:03] 12870/1287512746/12862
[488: Tue 12-02-14 00:03] 12862/1290512821/12851
[489: Wed 12-02-15 00:03] 12851/1289512789/12869
[490: Thu 12-02-16 00:03] 12869/1295912755/12761
[491: Fri 12-02-17 00:03] 12761/1291612726/12898
[492: Mon 12-02-20 00:03] 12898/1304612885/13030
[493: Tue 12-02-21 00:03] 13030/1303412981/12995
[494: Wed 12-02-22 00:03] 12995/1303312926/12965
[495: Thu 12-02-23 00:03] 12965/1300212916/12937
[496: Fri 12-02-24 00:03] 12937/1302012884/13013
[497: Mon 12-02-27 00:03] 13013/1304012949/12981
[498: Tue 12-02-28 00:03] 12981/1302912882/12996
[499: Wed 12-02-29 00:03] 12996/1304512958/13010
[500: Thu 12-03-01 00:03] 13010/1305812912/12931
[501: Fri 12-03-02 00:03] 12931/1303812915/13009
[502: Mon 12-03-05 00:03] 13009/1301112929/12979
[503: Tue 12-03-06 00:03] 12979/1299012884/12982
[504: Wed 12-03-07 00:03] 12982/1299112738/12781
[505: Thu 12-03-08 00:03] 12781/1286312763/12845
[506: Fri 12-03-09 00:03] 12845/1296312838/12912
[507: Mon 12-03-12 00:03] 12912/1297312894/12929
[508: Tue 12-03-13 00:03] 12929/1298412888/12977
[509: Wed 12-03-14 00:03] 12977/1322312977/13174
[510: Thu 12-03-15 00:03] 13174/1322013158/13185
[511: Fri 12-03-16 00:03] 13185/1325513175/13236
[512: Mon 12-03-19 00:03] 13236/1329213223/13255
[513: Tue 12-03-20 00:03] 13255/1327613192/13235
[514: Wed 12-03-21 00:03] 13235/1324213122/13178
[515: Thu 12-03-22 00:03] 13178/1322813111/13144
[516: Fri 12-03-23 00:03] 13144/1316113017/13079
[517: Mon 12-03-26 00:03] 13079/1313713001/13131
[518: Mon 12-03-26 23:03] 13131/1328513092/13280
[519: Tue 12-03-27 23:03] 13280/1331613184/13198
[520: Wed 12-03-28 23:03] 13198/1324813073/13127
[521: Thu 12-03-29 23:03] 13127/1315613034/13144
[522: Mon 12-04-02 23:03] 13144/1329713137/13251
[523: Tue 12-04-03 23:03] 13251/1326813132/13187
[524: Wed 12-04-04 23:03] 13187/1319213020/13074
[525: Thu 12-04-05 23:03] 13074/1310712998/13050
[526: Mon 12-04-09 23:03] 13050/1307612892/12926
[527: Tue 12-04-10 23:03] 12926/1296512713/12761
[528: Wed 12-04-11 23:03] 12761/1284812759/12832
[529: Thu 12-04-12 23:03] 12832/1301812803/13001
[530: Mon 12-04-16 23:03] 13001/1303612814/12919
[531: Tue 12-04-17 23:03] 12919/1313412881/13093
[532: Wed 12-04-18 23:03] 13093/1311513022/13037
[533: Thu 12-04-19 23:03] 13037/1311712899/12972
[534: Mon 12-04-23 23:03] 12972/1308712847/12945
[535: Tue 12-04-24 23:03] 12945/1306212933/13051
[536: Wed 12-04-25 23:03] 13051/1311213030/13095
[537: Thu 12-04-26 23:03] 13095/1322913055/13170
[538: Mon 12-04-30 23:03] 13170/1326813146/13232
[539: Tue 12-05-01 23:03] 13232/1334013164/13281
[540: Wed 12-05-02 23:03] 13281/1330913192/13263
[541: Thu 12-05-03 23:03] 13263/1330413175/13205
[542: Mon 12-05-07 23:03] 13205/1322512837/13023
[543: Tue 12-05-08 23:03] 13023/1303512815/12924
[544: Wed 12-05-09 23:03] 12924/1292912754/12807
[545: Thu 12-05-10 23:03] 12807/1293412767/12804
[546: Mon 12-05-14 23:03] 12804/1292612666/12718
[547: Tue 12-05-15 23:03] 12718/1279912611/12667
[548: Wed 12-05-16 23:03] 12667/1272812574/12612
[549: Thu 12-05-17 23:03] 12612/1267012433/12456
[550: Mon 12-05-21 23:03] 12456/1251612329/12511
[551: Tue 12-05-22 23:03] 12511/1257512446/12485
[552: Wed 12-05-23 23:03] 12485/1250712310/12489
[553: Thu 12-05-24 23:03] 12489/1257312413/12546
[554: Mon 12-05-28 23:03] 12546/1260912424/12496
[555: Tue 12-05-29 23:03] 12496/1261712465/12580
[556: Wed 12-05-30 23:03] 12580/1258412388/12403
[557: Thu 12-05-31 23:03] 12403/1249512323/12392
[558: Mon 12-06-04 23:03] 12392/1239512001/12089
[559: Tue 12-06-05 23:03] 12089/1214712048/12143
[560: Wed 12-06-06 23:03] 12143/1244812138/12445
[561: Thu 12-06-07 23:03] 12445/1255912421/12497
[562: Mon 12-06-11 23:03] 12497/1276512373/12401
[563: Tue 12-06-12 23:03] 12401/1259812383/12583
[564: Wed 12-06-13 23:03] 12583/1260612459/12509
[565: Thu 12-06-14 23:03] 12509/1270812485/12677
[566: Mon 12-06-18 23:03] 12677/1287612668/12759
[567: Tue 12-06-19 23:03] 12759/1290012730/12830
[568: Wed 12-06-20 23:03] 12830/1288012749/12829
[569: Thu 12-06-21 23:03] 12829/1286312564/12598
[570: Mon 12-06-25 23:03] 12598/1267812458/12510
[571: Tue 12-06-26 23:03] 12510/1258012453/12551
[572: Wed 12-06-27 23:03] 12551/1265012532/12623
[573: Thu 12-06-28 23:03] 12623/1264412449/12568
[574: Mon 12-07-02 23:03] 12568/1292412553/12858
[575: Tue 12-07-03 23:03] 12858/1294812827/12938
[576: Wed 12-07-04 23:03] 12938/1294612907/12914
End of lookback period

[577: Thu 12-07-05 23:03] 12914/1298812855/12908
[578: Mon 12-07-09 23:03] 12908/1292312686/12736
[579: Tue 12-07-10 23:03] 12736/1283112608/12649
[580: Wed 12-07-11 23:03] 12649/1271612534/12616
(SPX500::L) Long 6@1342.72 Entry limit
[581.1: 23:10:00] 1343/13431343/1343
[SPX500::L8101] Long 6@1342.75 Risk 568$ ts at 23:10:00

[581: Thu 12-07-12 23:03] +0 -38 0/1 12616/1262912491/12584

Thursday 12-07-12 Loss -38.41 ----
(US30::L) Long 8@12582.17 Entry limit
[582.1: 23:04:00] 12584/1258412583/12583
[US30::L8202] Long 8@12582.68 Risk 768$ ts at 23:04:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11485.10 at 19:03:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11486.10 at 19:08:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11487.10 at 19:10:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11495.10 at 19:11:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11499.10 at 19:42:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11504.10 at 19:44:00

[582: Mon 12-07-16 23:03] +0 +149 2/0 12584/1278912568/12737

Monday 12-07-16 Profit +187$ ----
(NAS100::L) Long 25@2575.16 Entry limit
[583.1: 23:04:00] 2577/25772576/2577
[NAS100::L8303] Long 25@2576.50 Risk 627$ ts at 23:04:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11515.10 at 13:33:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11516.10 at 13:34:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11517.10 at 13:38:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11518.10 at 13:39:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11522.10 at 17:24:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11526.10 at 17:25:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11531.10 at 17:26:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11532.10 at 17:27:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11538.10 at 17:30:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11542.10 at 17:31:00
[SPX500::L8101] Trail 6@1342.75 Stop 1235.27 at 18:57:00
[US30::L8202] Trail 8@12582.68 Stop 11547.10 at 18:57:00

[583: Tue 12-07-17 23:03] +0 +275 3/0 12737/1283212645/12791

Re: Zorro 1.58: Z3 test results different to Z Systems web page? [Re: PeWi] #466002
05/19/17 13:14
05/19/17 13:14
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,978
Frankfurt
jcl Offline

Chief Engineer
jcl  Offline

Chief Engineer

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,978
Frankfurt
The test period is different, as if indeed some historical data were missing. This is the normal Z3 result:

Code:
Walk-Forward Test Z3  (TICKS)

Simulated account   AssetsFix 
Bar period          24 hours (avg 2286 min)
Simulation period   2010-06-07..2017-05-02 (1584 bars)
Test period         2012-07-24..2017-05-02 (1097 bars)
Lookback period     100 bars (20 weeks)
WFO test cycles     9 x 121 bars (25 weeks)
Training cycles     10 x 487 bars (100 weeks)
Monte Carlo cycles  200
Simulation mode     Realistic ticks (slippage 5.0 sec)

Gross win/loss      11515$ / -6264$ (+4703p)
Average profit      1101$/year, 92$/month, 4.23$/day
Max drawdown        -805$ 15% (MAE -1062$ 20%)
Total down time     69% (TAE 60%)
Max down time       66 weeks from Oct 2015
Max open margin     171$
Max open risk       3726$
Trade volume        1018362$ (213400$/year)
Transaction costs   -623$ spr, -370$ slp, -114$ rol
Capital required    809$

Number of trades    124 (26/year, 1/week, 1/day)
Percent winning     49.2%
Max win/loss        853$ / -281$
Avg trade profit    42$ 37.9p (+169.0p / -89.0p)
Avg trade slippage  -2.99$ -2.7p (+0.2p / -5.4p)
Avg trade bars      6 (+8 / -5)
Max trade bars      46 (9 weeks)
Time in market      78%
Max open trades     4
Max loss streak     5 (uncorrelated 8)

Annual return       136%
Profit factor       1.84 (PRR 1.42)
Sharpe ratio        1.02
Kelly criterion     0.77
R2 coefficient      0.390
Ulcer index         7.8%

Confidence level     AR   DDMax  Capital

 10%                175%   578$  629$
 20%                164%   629$  670$
 30%                153%   691$  719$
 40%                141%   768$  780$
 50%                134%   818$  820$
 60%                125%   894$  880$
 70%                117%   971$  941$
 80%                101%  1153$  1085$
 90%                 90%  1320$  1217$
 95%                 78%  1558$  1407$
100%                 46%  2774$  2371$

Portfolio analysis  OptF  ProF  Win/Loss  Wgt%  Cycles

NAS100 avg          .054  1.89   16/17    20.8  ///.//.
SPX500 avg          .039  1.44    8/12     5.0  /..//./
US30 avg            .063  2.70   19/14    37.2  //././//
XAG/USD avg         .019  1.59   18/20    36.9  //X/XX

NAS100              .109  1.89   16/17    20.8  ///.//.
NAS100:L            .109  1.89   16/17    20.8  ///.//.
NAS100:S            .000  ----    0/0      0.0  .........
SPX500              .078  1.44    8/12     5.0  /..//./
SPX500:L            .078  1.44    8/12     5.0  /..//./
SPX500:S            .000  ----    0/0      0.0  .........
US30                .127  2.70   19/14    37.2  //././//
US30:L              .127  2.70   19/14    37.2  //././//
US30:S              .000  ----    0/0      0.0  .........
XAG/USD             .019  1.59   18/20    36.9  //X/XX
XAG/USD:L           .029  2.14    9/7     29.4  /.///
XAG/USD:S           .008  1.21    9/13     7.6  ////



Can you check the date of your 2017 historical data? It should go until May 2, 2017.

- Also download the price history again in case you did not get it with the Download script. I've just updated it, maybe you got a version with too old 2017 data.

Re: Zorro 1.58: Z3 test results different to Z Systems web page? [Re: jcl] #466004
05/19/17 14:38
05/19/17 14:38
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 19
P
PeWi Offline OP
Newbie
PeWi  Offline OP
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P

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 19
According your hint I downloaded M1 Price History 2016..2017 again and all test result are fine.

Thanks again for the fast and competent help.

Kind regards, Peter


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