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Z System result sharing? #459957
06/13/16 03:58
06/13/16 03:58
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 122
V
Veratyr Offline OP
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Veratyr  Offline OP
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V

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 122
There have been quite a few times when we've had to ask "did you get X trade" or "does Z-system X work", "how's the drawdown right now", "does system X work with broker Y" and it's been largely ad-hoc answers up until now.

I propose we share Z-system performance amongst ourselves to resolve some of these issues. As such, I'm starting the following list myself, which I'll update with links from anyone else who cares to share, for easy access. Hopefully it'll also be helpful to the devs.

I'm personally using Myfxbook with a "private invitation" which should stop this from showing up in the regular Myfxbook index. If you want to do this yourself, you should go to your portfolio, to your system and click the green "share" button in the top right under the time and search button. If you're uncomfortable sharing your balance or other details, you can choose not to share information in the invitation settings.

If you haven't used Myfxbook before but would like to, you can simply create an account and add your Z System account under the Portfolio tab. They support everything supported by Zorro other than IB and everything's private by default.

So here it is:



If you'd like to be added to the list, please post a link.

Last edited by Veratyr; 06/13/16 04:05.
Re: Z System result sharing? [Re: Veratyr] #460059
06/14/16 22:49
06/14/16 22:49
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,999
Switzerland Zürich
JeyKey II Offline
Serious User
JeyKey II  Offline
Serious User

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,999
Switzerland Zürich
Hi
Question: And what we doing with the Results?
Do you think JCL would give us a plausible answer if we see the Results are not as promissed in the Manual?

IT'S a FAKE
- Why many users have stopped to trade with Z's ??
- I never heard about positive experience wth Z's ??

why I am convinced that there is a FAKE:
Let us compare
Equity Curve from the Manual 1.46



We see Z12 Manual: March and April rising Equity
We see Z12 Veratyr: March and April flat Equity
OK: 3 months are not enough to compare
BUT:
My Z12's better shows the differenz
I am a ZorroS User
I must say I lost over 10'000 CHFR since Okt 2013

Data imported from FXCM Report to Excel


We see Z12 Manual: 2015 rising Equity
We see Z12 JeyKeyII: 2015 falling Equity

We see Z12 Manual: 2016 rising Equity
We see Z12 JeyKeyII: 2016 falling Equity
SHIT SHIT SHIT

Already mentioned by other users:
Some trades are open over 2 Months

1 UK100: Floating profit, 30% "eaten" by Rollover
2 US30: Floating profit, 100% "eaten" by Rollover
3 US30: Floating profit, 50% "eaten" by Rollover
"The only winner is the Broker" wink JCL gets commission from the Broker wink

while writing this post, some of those trades was closed

60% of the profit are lost by Rollover
UK100 is still open

@JCL
To Lose hard earned money with work, is realy not funny.

Nun auf Deutsch weiter:
Ich finde es echt unverantwortlich, wenn nicht unseriös,
Leute zu animieren, irgendein Produkt (Zorro) zu kaufen, indem man falsche Tatsachen vortäuscht. Ist, soviel ich weiss auch in Deutschland nicht "gentlemen like" vorallem wenn es um Finanzprodukte geht.

Irgendwo hast du mal sinngemäss geschrieben:
Oft werden Strategien "verkauft" / angeboten, welche nur auf die "Vergangenheit" opmtimiert sind, um zu zeigen wie profitabel dies Strategie ist.
Auszug Zorro-WerbePage FAQ:
--------------------------------------------------
I've heard that almost all trading tools are scam. How honest is Zorro?

Scam is indeed a major source of income in the trading scene. Unlike all the "Forex Autopilots", "Trading Robots" or "Expert Advisors" sold on various websites, Zorro's included stategies really work - they
are based on sound math and don't fake profitability with martingale methods. Their algorithms are not 'secret', but explained in the included trading course. Anyone can test and verify them.
--------------------------------------------------
"Anyone can test and verify them"
Leider nicht möglich. Man kann Walkforward-Test nur bis zum Release Datum machen. Will man damit verstecken, dass die Zukunft doch anders aussieht als die "optimierte" Vergangenheit?
Die User würden gerne den Test bis "aktuelles" Datum machen
Du müsstest nur die Zeile "EndDate = xxxxxxxx" enfernen.

Mal schauen ob da ein vernüftiges Feedback kommt



[Jeder ist sich selbst am Nächsten]
Re: Z System result sharing? [Re: JeyKey II] #460060
06/14/16 23:19
06/14/16 23:19
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 122
V
Veratyr Offline OP
Member
Veratyr  Offline OP
Member
V

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 122
Quote:
note: ignore results before Jun 2, 2016. This account was used for other things prior to running Z12


The results on my account are currently near useless, with everything from before Jun 2 being unrelated to the Z-Systems. My own Myfxbook account only has around a week of usable data.

Quote:

Question: And what we doing with the Results?
Do you think JCL would give us a plausible answer if we see the Results are not as promissed in the Manual?


We can use the results to determine whether things perform as expected, whether there are any bugs, whether any particular parameters like broker cause issues.

We so far have details of one account that has issues and while that's helpful to know, we shouldn't jump to any conclusions until we have at least someone else who has similar issues. You may be an outlier.

I do expect though that if everyone who posts here has issues, jcl would do something about it. I seriously doubt that's the case though.

Would you consider adding your FXCM account to Myfxbook and giving me a link so I can add you to the list? If there are issues, being able to compare your results to anyone else who's added would be a big help.

This is speculation but is your account denominated in CHF? It may be that this contributes to your problem. Every time you trade a pair that doesn't contain CHF, you actually have to make two trades. For example if you trade EURUSD, first you have to trade CHF for EUR and only then can you trade EUR for USD. I'm not sure how brokers handle this and how it contributes to rollover but it might be worth your time to conversomeom of your funds to USD and put them in a USD denominated account. Hopefully jcl can comment on whether my speculation is insane or not.

Last edited by Veratyr; 06/14/16 23:39.
Re: Z System result sharing? [Re: Veratyr] #460063
06/14/16 23:29
06/14/16 23:29
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,999
Switzerland Zürich
JeyKey II Offline
Serious User
JeyKey II  Offline
Serious User

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,999
Switzerland Zürich
mad You asked for results, you got results mad
eek lick me


[Jeder ist sich selbst am Nächsten]
Re: Z System result sharing? [Re: JeyKey II] #460064
06/14/16 23:44
06/14/16 23:44
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 122
V
Veratyr Offline OP
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Veratyr  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 122
Originally Posted By: JeyKey II
mad You asked for results, you got results mad
eek lick me


Very mature.

The idea is that we can compare things in the future. If you give me a Myfxbook link, we can compare which trades we have open, what account settings we have and whether we're performing the same in the future. If you don't want to do that, it's totally okay but please don't pollute the thread with off topic discussion.

Re: Z System result sharing? [Re: Veratyr] #460081
06/15/16 14:59
06/15/16 14:59
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 181
R
RTG Offline
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RTG  Offline
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R

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 181
I would cut down the risk per trade to start with.

Re: Z System result sharing? [Re: RTG] #460090
06/15/16 23:42
06/15/16 23:42
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 336
Rogaland
N
nanotir Offline
Senior Member
nanotir  Offline
Senior Member
N

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 336
Rogaland
I could share my groth curve but it is at -100% since january so it is basically flat. I have been underwater since I opened the account and now it is actually going up again. This is a 1:500 mt4 account. The fcxm DD 1:200 account is going down in the same period as yours.

Now, there is risk, margin, broker, moment the trader begun the connection, the currency used, the mt4 bridge used, historiy data used for lookback, training, vps quality, api, capital invested, time the z-systems were active and so on....There are so many possible ways to explain why the Z-systems results are not reproduced that it can allways be something to explain each case.

Having said that, it has been some post about Z-systems in the past and the losses that the users got. I think the manual has changed now regarding Z-systems so that the user is more aware of the risk of using them. Because it says that Z-systems are relatively simple and not like a perfect system and I am not sure if zorro team has the intention to improve z12 by using the feedback provided by the users.
It seems like z-systems are tuned versions of the workshops in the tutorial. The question maybe how we tune a strategy so that the simple algo which has an edge becomes finally a profitable strategy? There is a post in the finantial hacker blog about it: adding stop, trailing, risk managment and so on. The point is that a good pimped version of workshop 6, as it is z12, is more than just that. There are examples of tmf trailing functions on the manual but a workshop, or a post on the blog would be helpfull, otherwise develop a strategy is like throwing a coin until one get the tmf function which works good.

But I am up to looking at different users performance. which link do you need? Even a perfect backtest without overfitting cannot garanty good results in the future and that maybe the case with z12. But at least the results of the Z12 included in the 1.34 zorro version should reproduced the DD of the beginning of january. The current z12 is different therefore there is not such a DD on january 2016, but it should be in that version so then it could be ensured that z12 simulation results are close to trading results.



Last edited by Nanitek; 06/16/16 00:03.
Re: Z System result sharing? [Re: nanotir] #460095
06/16/16 04:31
06/16/16 04:31
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 122
V
Veratyr Offline OP
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Veratyr  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 122
All good points. There are a lot of parameters but I think it's okay to find problems first and figure out why they happen later. To start with, I think the details on the Myfxbook pages are enough (broker, leverage, deposits, withdrawals).

When you were asking which link I needed, did you mean which account? If you're running two, both would be helpful, as we can compare FXCM to whatever you're using for the high leverage account.

Re: Z System result sharing? [Re: Veratyr] #460327
06/25/16 07:18
06/25/16 07:18
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 27
Frankfurt, Germany
M
MIGI Offline
Newbie
MIGI  Offline
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M

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 27
Frankfurt, Germany
Maybe we should use FX Blue for sharing the results http://www.fxblue.com/index.aspx One Advanatge is that you can set the begin of the period that you want to publish. I have used MyFXBook before, but now I have switched.

I run the Z-Systems on an FXCM demo account and the equity is down.


Last edited by MIGI; 06/25/16 07:20.
Re: Z System result sharing? [Re: MIGI] #460335
06/25/16 14:50
06/25/16 14:50
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 122
V
Veratyr Offline OP
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Veratyr  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 122
If you prefer FxBlue, you can share that instead, I'm not picky. I'll try it out myself because setting the period sounds helpful.

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