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modeling houses for first person games #460926
07/20/16 19:10
07/20/16 19:10
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,823
Netherlands
Reconnoiter Offline OP
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Reconnoiter  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,823
Netherlands
Hi,

My plan is to make a few maps with explorable houses with multiple floors for one of my games. And I want to be able to place it my real-time mapeditor (so I will not use blocks) and in a Shade-C environment.

I was pondering though what would be the best way set-up the 'building blocks/pieces' (3d models) to quickly create semi-unique houses in the editor.

So far I have been thinking of entirely loose objects/pieces (like e.g. a support beam, a window, a plank), but that solution seems to will involve to many entities and to much work to map whole houses.

Now I am thinking of seperating it in floors/levels. And than while mapping in the editor you could e.g. have multiple variations for a square floor or e.g. for a rectangle floor. And to create multiple floors you just have to place them ontop of each other.
I am having some difficulties though with letting floors blend smooth ontop each other (they now clip into each other cause e.g. the ground of the floor is different than the ceilling of the floor). Also its a bit annoying when you want to scale the floors cause the textures ofcourse are not tiled in contrary to wad textures on blocks.

Are there any other ways or perhaps tips on this subject? Or perhaps articles or such? Tia

Re: modeling houses for first person games [Re: Reconnoiter] #460928
07/20/16 19:42
07/20/16 19:42

M
Malice
Unregistered
Malice
Unregistered
M



I would split each building into 3 part types,
1
Exterior base
exterior level
exterior roof
2
Interior layout.
3
Interior auto-floor.

Use say 1-5 exterior bases - First floor from outside - inlcude reverse walls.
Each ex base has 1-5 level version - second-xth floors from outside, with reverses inside walls.
- And 1-5 roof versions.

Then move inside and drop in 1-5 inside layouts, inner walls, rooms, chairs, beds ect.. Each inside level will not have a floor/ceiling.
The base ex provides a floor plane. But each interior auto creates a two sided ceiling/floor plan for the level about(even if only one level building)
The auto floor/ceiling should have 1-5 version that can be change by value or flag and also if wanted 1-5 textures that can be changed this way .


Drop a base ex... Select it's look. Drop in a interior layout select it's style, gen a auto ceiling/floor pick it's style and texture. If wish drop a second level ex , and drop in and other level interior... When done cap with a roof...

One final note for workflow to production. It would be great if the work done in the editor was exported out into one model structure file, that could be loaded in the production game. This way all the configuration is in the editor and the product doesn't need the extra bits and options. Finally, Through a model in parts -> I believe -> hit.chuck values can with vmask to allow visibility into the building as if setting separate entities to alpha 0..

Re: modeling houses for first person games [Re: ] #460929
07/20/16 19:51
07/20/16 19:51
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,107
Germany
rayp Offline

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rayp  Offline

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Posts: 2,107
Germany
Quote:
so I will not use blocks
Just wanted to say, dont use blocks at all. Only for ground structure for example.

Few days ago i buyed some nice houses with indoor modeling for only 30$ btw. If u want to have good performance a lot of tricks must be done ( like no faces below the floor etc, a hollowed block exported to mdl isnt a good solution ). Just want to say building such models (rendering fast) isnt a easy task grin
If you using shadeC reset the dynamic flag of the houses later, if not your framerate will "Crash" ^^
With those indoor "and" outdoor maps u must really use every trick available ( LOD...... )
edit: Good News is it seams to be possible with high fps ( i recognized in "Setting up shadec evo" thread ).



Greets and good luck!

Last edited by rayp; 07/20/16 20:23.

Acknex umgibt uns...zwischen Dir, mir, dem Stein dort...
"Hey Griswold ... where u gonna put a tree that big ?"
1998 i married my loved wife ... Sheeva from Mortal Kombat, not Evil-Lyn as might have been expected
rayp.flags |= UNTOUCHABLE;
Re: modeling houses for first person games [Re: rayp] #460930
07/20/16 20:50
07/20/16 20:50

M
Malice
Unregistered
Malice
Unregistered
M



Quote:
With those indoor "and" outdoor maps u must really use every trick available ( LOD...... )


While the model optimizations you speak of are basic and always needed. You can also further benefit from using the regions to block-clip whole areas. Even if inside a building, if the far 50% is full none-visible to the player, then clip it out with a region.

In the screen shot above there are clearly rooms that are none visible to the current view position. I believe--> Using regions skips the step of the engine deciding if a area should be culled. Thus speeding the render.

Last edited by Malice; 07/20/16 21:00.
Re: modeling houses for first person games [Re: ] #460943
07/21/16 11:55
07/21/16 11:55
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,823
Netherlands
Reconnoiter Offline OP
Serious User
Reconnoiter  Offline OP
Serious User

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,823
Netherlands
Bonus question: what are your thoughts on (glass) windows in houses? I was first thinking of making them destroyable and letting the player look through them, but I now realize that they make it more difficult too (with regions and looking through windows and more complex models).

Quote:
I would split each building into 3 part types,
1
Exterior base
exterior level
exterior roof
2
Interior layout.
3
Interior auto-floor.

Use say 1-5 exterior bases - First floor from outside - inlcude reverse walls.
Each ex base has 1-5 level version - second-xth floors from outside, with reverses inside walls.
- And 1-5 roof versions.

Then move inside and drop in 1-5 inside layouts, inner walls, rooms, chairs, beds ect.. Each inside level will not have a floor/ceiling.
The base ex provides a floor plane. But each interior auto creates a two sided ceiling/floor plan for the level about(even if only one level building)
The auto floor/ceiling should have 1-5 version that can be change by value or flag and also if wanted 1-5 textures that can be changed this way.
, this is very helpfull tnx.

Quote:
One final note for workflow to production. It would be great if the work done in the editor was exported out into one model structure file, that could be loaded in the production game. This way all the configuration is in the editor and the product doesn't need the extra bits and options.
, I will use it with physx for some interior things, but its a nice idea perhaps for in the future to e.g. re-use older/currently made maps (or pieces of maps) in other engines.

Quote:
Finally, Through a model in parts -> I believe -> hit.chuck values can with vmask to allow visibility into the building as if setting separate entities to alpha 0..
, that's handy to know.

Quote:
Few days ago i buyed some nice houses with indoor modeling for only 30$ btw. If u want to have good performance a lot of tricks must be done ( like no faces below the floor etc, a hollowed block exported to mdl isnt a good solution ). Just want to say building such models (rendering fast) isnt a easy task grin
If you using shadeC reset the dynamic flag of the houses later, if not your framerate will "Crash" ^^
With those indoor "and" outdoor maps u must really use every trick available ( LOD...... )
edit: Good News is it seams to be possible with high fps ( i recognized in "Setting up shadec evo" thread ).
, good tips. I will try to mainly model/texture the buildings and simple interior models self etc, all low/mid poly (cause its easier to model low/mid poly anyway), only textures will be bit of a problem. Though I am thinking of regions (just 1 per house should be suffice) that detect if a player is near or not and if not dont show many details like interior.

Quote:
In the screen shot above there are clearly rooms that are none visible to the current view position. I believe--> Using regions skips the step of the engine deciding if a area should be culled. Thus speeding the render.
, automatic culling of area's only work with blocks in WED compiled maps right? So I think regions (and camera clip.far ofcourse) are probably needed anyway.

Quote:

Greets and good luck!
, tnx! After 3 months of work and planning I now almost have a solid framework and most of the basics (incl. player control, physx, AI with pathing, item usage and some rpg elements etc.). Hopefully after a short time I can create a project thread to show some pics and such.

Last edited by Reconnoiter; 07/21/16 12:28.
Re: modeling houses for first person games [Re: Reconnoiter] #460961
07/21/16 16:27
07/21/16 16:27
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,107
Germany
rayp Offline

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rayp  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,107
Germany
Making destroyable glass ... thats intresting. But how ? Creating flying glass sprites ? Particles ? Best would be a mdl file of the window with a break animation i guess. Isnt there any tool creating such a animation ?

Quote:
, automatic culling of area's only work with blocks in WED compiled maps right? So I think regions (and camera clip.far ofcourse) are probably needed anyway.
dont know to be honest. Maybe creating complete "floors" as map entity, loading removing them when needed, but this sounds not fast while thinking about.

good questions ^^

edit to post below:
Ahh sure, the CLIPPED flag becomes usefull here too.

Last edited by rayp; 07/21/16 16:44.

Acknex umgibt uns...zwischen Dir, mir, dem Stein dort...
"Hey Griswold ... where u gonna put a tree that big ?"
1998 i married my loved wife ... Sheeva from Mortal Kombat, not Evil-Lyn as might have been expected
rayp.flags |= UNTOUCHABLE;
Re: modeling houses for first person games [Re: rayp] #460963
07/21/16 16:37
07/21/16 16:37

M
Malice
Unregistered
Malice
Unregistered
M



http://www.conitec.net/beta/culling.htm

More about the rendering..

Note the checking of the CLIPPED flag to shutdown or pause/skip over heavy functions in entities that are not visible anyways...!

I think with breakable glass you should be selective between what is 'crack-able' and what can be fully shattered out.
Particle and sprites mixed with some mdl glass elements are the common path.

Re: modeling houses for first person games [Re: rayp] #460971
07/21/16 19:35
07/21/16 19:35
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,823
Netherlands
Reconnoiter Offline OP
Serious User
Reconnoiter  Offline OP
Serious User

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,823
Netherlands
Originally Posted By: rayp
Making destroyable glass ... thats intresting. But how ? Creating flying glass sprites ? Particles ? Best would be a mdl file of the window with a break animation i guess. Isnt there any tool creating such a animation ?
, its not that the glass itself is hard to make I think, but it creates some annoying requirements for which parts to leave open in walls.

Quote:
dont know to be honest. Maybe creating complete "floors" as map entity, loading removing them when needed, but this sounds not fast while thinking about.
, I dont think i will be doing that but i have to applaud you for the creative solution which involves map entities grin

Quote:
Ahh sure, the CLIPPED flag becomes usefull here too.
, oh yeah still needed to add that to the actions.

Quote:

I think with breakable glass you should be selective between what is 'crack-able' and what can be fully shattered out.
, that is a good idea. It gives me more control over where the player could look and enter inside and saves some modeling work.

Re: modeling houses for first person games [Re: Reconnoiter] #460972
07/21/16 19:42
07/21/16 19:42
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,107
Germany
rayp Offline

X
rayp  Offline

X

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,107
Germany
Once there was a bug in
Code:
map_subents

. Dont know if its still there.


Acknex umgibt uns...zwischen Dir, mir, dem Stein dort...
"Hey Griswold ... where u gonna put a tree that big ?"
1998 i married my loved wife ... Sheeva from Mortal Kombat, not Evil-Lyn as might have been expected
rayp.flags |= UNTOUCHABLE;
Re: modeling houses for first person games [Re: rayp] #461109
07/26/16 05:37
07/26/16 05:37

M
Malice
Unregistered
Malice
Unregistered
M



BTW to @both y'all I avialible to do some clean up on those store bought models. Also on home made ones. (checking the quid/tri structures).
I can try to make textures from cc or free bases. No my best skill.

I can surely do Lod steps quick.

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