, but as you know mp takes alot time to code in a game. It's inevitable that you will sacrifice some other elements to make mp work (unless your name is Valve).

, that's cause the old fps games had professional teams behind them, most nowadays oldskool fps indie games don't have that, so their quality is lower (except for graphics on a technical level and sometimes exceptions on other elements).

, I like Killing Floor and am on the same boat as you with the replaybility, though I don't see the connection with the rest of your post here . Killing Floor is a bit shallow cause that's what people will expect to see (since it was a popular mod previously so it has alot of hardcore fans) and some people want to play something with a simple focus. If they wanted, they could have added skills and whatnot, Tripwire is fairly experienced I think and probably has the budget.

, no you got me wrong, I wanted to try a mp game of you. I did not expect people to hire you, though I wish you all the best and that they do .

Too much alcochol here, but I'll reply anyway
Of course MP takes a lot, but it gives a lot in replayability. SP is the core...
I disagree about the old games, though. They werent much more professional than any of us. Its just the immersive factor playing you. Try running Quake 2 or Unreal, or Doom, and you'll notice you're used to good graphics now, and the old games just look horrible.
The imagination was a greater factor then, because of the graphics...

As for Killing Floor, I commented it to point out the weak design in MP gaming. It would have been one of the greatest in my list if I could choose my next attributes and skills...They just didnt think thats needed. Same with their next version, Killing Floor 2. Its currently in active dev, but still no choice. You get some perks to pickup, but thats it... No real game-play changing choice...
When we talk about fun in old games, this is what Killing Floor particularly lacks... choice... Havent you played Diablo 2?
And dont say they didnt had their second chance with Killing Floor 2 Its (not a mod) stand alone, and they could have taken it a little further...

No, I currently dont have any MP projects published. The Dreamlord is my first finished (solely) project. It is extremely hard to build a full-scale 3D game alone. I can see the benefit of Android and 2D block-busters...

My next project (probably still solely developed) will be entirely MP concentrated with the SP integrated in the beginning as a tutorial and introduction, like in D&D Online. The core of this game is the MP Tutorial (actually the tutorial follows my development), so its a working example in some way...

If anyone has any questions/requests for features about the tutorial, feel free to ask or contact me in a PM. It is on pause, but it will definitely continue some day, refreshed!

I really want to thank you all for commenting. I feel like I've really made even a little difference in somebody's life.
I hope you master the MP part and I hope we bring this community back up, into the top 10 game engines...

you know what, you partly took the words out of my mouth , back then technology was not as developer's really needed it to be , so in my opinion a lot of other game factors had to be implemented more pronounced than graphics and large worlds and all the fancyness we enjoy today , but it's also a balancing act these days , developers still need to sacrifice a bit of one thing to improve another thing , I have noticed this a lot , as soon as something in a game is pushed up like graphics , the rest of the game suffers from some scaled down version of ai or whatever , it seems we can never have it all .

but at least they still sell titles , but sometimes I am amazed at what is sold .

then there's always those games that just cannot crack it as anything other than just being mp , this is what I think I want to focus on , something completely do-able as mp only , if I ever can manage good ai I would definitely go sp too , the thing is just what people expect from sp is pretty hard to really serve them , but back to point , in my opinion theres a lot of things multiplayer games can get away with , like no need for ai no need for pathfinding no need for complicated story line development no need for hordes of enemies no need for cutscenes , and well non linear gameplay comes as a bonus , basically sp and mp is apples and oranges

, yes I said in my post that nowadays fps get the graphics better , but my point was that most of the other elements are worse. I sometimes still play an old game and sometimes I am still amazed, like the level design (e.g. the clever secrets of Jedi Knight 1 that give that "ah that's how you get to that place" feeling). Though I must say with graphics I find art direction more important than on technical level; e.g. I still like the graphics of Deus Ex.

, and that's what I disagree with, even if I would want the same features as what you suggested for Killing Floor 2. I think its just a smart focus of them; lots of people don't want all those skills and rpg stuff, they just want blow away some zombies without to much thinking. So I can't really call it weak design, I think its more like shallow/repetive design which attracts some people.

, my quess is that's mostly a budget questions, atleast for big companies. Also to reach a larger audiance they don't want to make games to complicated and not-knowable/strange/new (== death to innovation).

, yeah, mp only has some big advantages if you can tackle the mp part.

Ok, thats where I am heading...

Drop the budget, drop the marketing, drop the design. Tackle the MP part.

Thats what this tutorial is all about, love of making things, and making things better.
If you have a dream about a MP game, start with this tut and make your way through...

The Old games were written by dreamers, they were created by people who believed in what they were creating. They were the innovators. The Apple, the Diablo, the Dungeon Siege.

It is sad, that people are aiming towards profit these days. I can understand them, I'm struggling for survival here. But its wrong. It made the market bland. Full of white noise. Just browse the Android marketplace...You'll see...

So, my stand is, read my tutorial, if you can: continue it, if you cant, wait for the next part in a few months... I desire a free MMO (without any false limitations by AI or invisible blocks, without a fixed currency and without everlasting resources, without invincible heroes). And I'm determined to make it. Even if it takes 20 years from now and 100's of projects... I believe in a Free to Play Endless MMO full of Freedom.

I hope you understand my point now.

And again, if anyone has any requests on features, feel free to drop them here or in a PM. I believe in my dream and I will work on it while I'm alive...

PS.: Alcohol is bad for your health! But it makes you believe in the impossible

ok here is my first problem... The mp you are using sends keys and does dead moves..
What is a dead move - press a key it moves, unpress it stops.

May last mp attempt used drift - drift unpress a key and it slows to stop. And acceleration.

I was unable to hack your code to make this work. So my request is for real movement. Even fps shooters use a little acceleration and drift in the movement, which I assume can not be achieve by simple sending keys. Am I correct? Maybe the basics of movement and mp have not been covered well.

acceleration, drift and push(as in bumping and explosions ) are basic parts of single player code that has not been displayed in the multiplayer examples so far...
love this because I'm drunk...lol

It is possible by sending only keys, but I noticed some annoying delay in the movement which lead, if abused right that the client entitiy got arround a cornor but the server entity didnt.
Also the gameplay felt kinda strange as client because hitboxes were managed by the server, so I changed the code to a simple UDP packet pos updating together with keypresses which works fantastic

as in the wise words of worms but in the form of a question ..."goodies" ??

I started with this movement, because my project is a top-down shooter, but I do plan a smooth movement for the next FPS addition...And a Z movement/jumping.

Until then, you can try to make it yourself, using simple key sending and modifying the movement function. The movement function just moves an entity. A simple idea is to add to it increase/decrease using a skill for every entity, saving current acceleration in it. It'll be the same (on theory) on client and server, so it shouldn't be a big change for the whole system...No need to send anything more than what is being send right now...

As for the delay and the bounding boxes, yes The bb are wrong, but I was focused on the MP part, I'll fix it some day. The delay/difference is caused by latency and cannot be avoided, unless you send more often. The better solution is to include prediction. Again, some day...

What comes to mind when reading the tutorial is that there is a big lack of the why and a lot of how. Tutorials should really try to tell users why things a the way they are and what exceptions apply and why. Throwing code at people rarely helps if you can't give them a good fundamental explanation for why the code is that way and what design you are trying to achieve.

There is an exceptionally good book about the FreeBSD kernel which explains the whole kernel from the boot process, scheduling decisions, access control, virtual filesystem, networking and so on, and the way they do it is by explaining why on earth they ended up with the design, what problems they had to face and how the implementation tries to mitigate problems that arise from a different design. And that is exactly what I'm looking for. Once I know what the challenges are and how to design an application around these challenges, I can just go through the API and get the rest together. But I can't work the other way around, have a ton of API and then try to figure out how to use it properly.