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Re: unreal engine 4 [Re: Reconnoiter] #449312
03/13/15 11:58
03/13/15 11:58
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,150
Budapest
sivan Offline
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sivan  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,150
Budapest
it really depends on what you need, what are your preferences. the best to test both laugh

---

with simple graphics and simple scenes 3dgs performs well, easy to use, flexible, basically I like it. you can start with very basic knowledge, and go forward, but if you want to make some high quality stuff, you have to make your own tools, development environment (I made MapBuilder because WED is from the nineties), and shader package, performance falls very rapidly with complexity (entity and view quantity), difficult to get high quality graphics assets for free/cheap price, difficult to establish a team. I need large open scenes, where 3dgs even with the Pro edition has certain limits I would like to break through.

---

with UE4 you get a huge complex high quality package, requiring much longer time to get familiar with, optimized for modern hardware, basically for the future, which is great as game development is not an instant thing. so your potential players are different (I would not say limited). it means you have a lower basic FPS, but it falls not so much as you increase quality or complexity, thanks to several optimizations. and in UE4 editor there are simple scalability options to decrease quality and get more power, I use it intensively, because my notebook is just over minimal requirements, but apparently I can approximate 3DGS performance beside a slightly higher quality and scene complexity (it is not possible to set the same test environment, the renderer is very different). I will see how it goes with a real RTS system after I port my pathfinding solution (the built in navmesh is fast but rather for 1st/3rd person games with relatively similar enemies, and with limited AI decision making possibilities).

when you start a new project with UE4 you can check the available templates both for Blueprints and C++, thus you can get a basic character with animation and movement stuff, and it is not so bad to set up simple enemy AI behaviour, which is a long work with 3dgs. and there are several free to use samples and sample games with free assets, and game-play related solutions, directly from professional developers.

moreover, there is a backward support for Win XP made recently, targeting lower end hardware by using OpenGL instead of DirectX, but I have not tested yet...


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Re: unreal engine 4 [Re: sivan] #449335
03/15/15 18:37
03/15/15 18:37

M
Malice
Unregistered
Malice
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M



Now this is what I've been waiting for.. UE4.7.1 introduces blueprint components that stack in GUI drag and drop.
https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Videos/Pla...deo=qr4ZjieAQKY

This is what I spent YEARS trying to build for 3gds. Build basic functionality once in many small parts, then drag and drop them on to the Entity you wish to enable with the functionality.
How many time have you rewritten the same basic movements before adding the unique functions on top. Why would you want too? Tell the true, you can code a basic player blind at this point, right? Because every time you do a project, you had to either have a c file in you personal library or write it fresh, even if it is exactly the same every time. However if you wrote basic gravity and movement once for your library, you benefit yourself or level works by being able to drag and drop that basic script on to any entity.

The idea of this component script building will shoot UE4 into beginner friendly zones. Experienced programmer will build a library of these thing and newbies can collect and uses them to creat games in lightening time.

This is no different from me grabbing and hacking(modifying) code from the 3dgs wiki. However the implementation is so simple and visual that beginners will love it and modify-learners like me will quickly be hacking at these components to understand how they work and how to build custom behaviors on top of them.

Last edited by Malice; 03/16/15 00:12.
Re: unreal engine 4 [Re: ] #449338
03/15/15 21:48
03/15/15 21:48
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,093
Germany
T
Toast Offline
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Toast  Offline
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Posts: 1,093
Germany
I followed your link and read this:
Quote:
This intermediate level video introduces a way to break the functionality of your games

Now that's a neat feature... grin

Re: unreal engine 4 [Re: Toast] #449340
03/16/15 00:09
03/16/15 00:09

M
Malice
Unregistered
Malice
Unregistered
M



Lol ok.
Quote:
This intermediate level video introduces a way to break the functionality of your games up into a series of modular Blueprintable Components. With this technique, you can quickly construct in-game assets with complex behaviors right inside your game world, just by dragging and dropping!


A8 templates do what besides take up space? However they should have worked like this..

Last edited by Malice; 03/16/15 00:11.
Re: unreal engine 4 [Re: ] #449354
03/16/15 13:37
03/16/15 13:37
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,823
Netherlands
Reconnoiter Offline
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Reconnoiter  Offline
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Netherlands
Such a blueprints/templates system is only viable if the dev team is large enough. Not only to implement it, but also to update it to prevent it from becoming a broken mess after ~ >1 year. Better to just ignore such large templates for gs3d and add more short sed templates / code snippets (complex and/or often used). Those are always usefull.

Though to be fair, it might work for gs3d because gs3d doesn't get updated anymore* so such a system only needs to be implemented and never needs to be updated grin

*atleast for the time being

Re: unreal engine 4 [Re: Reconnoiter] #449355
03/16/15 13:47
03/16/15 13:47
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,713
Lübeck
Slin Offline
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Slin  Offline
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Lübeck
I think the UE API is quite mature and besides some very few minor fixes I would only expect added functionality but no changes breaking existing blueprints. As a result it is a lot easier to just use blueprints for small teams instead of writing code for everything.

Re: unreal engine 4 [Re: Slin] #449356
03/16/15 15:26
03/16/15 15:26

M
Malice
Unregistered
Malice
Unregistered
M



@Reconnoiter - Small snippets is what I'm talking about. However if they had GUI drag and drop and the ability to stack then you could build 3dgs full games this way. Load the in game editor, drop gravity and basic movement on the player Entity and the editor writes out the actual lite-c file. Not Hard! The idea is sound, I've had it working. However 3dgs GUI choke point and my lack of skill in building a snippet library made it something I couldn't finish.
I am not talking about the blueprint system, I am talking about single GUI icons(Components Blueprints, if you viewed the video) that can be dragged and dropped and stack and represent snippets to build a full C file.
To be honest my old library had snippets from the forum and wiki and just person stuff people like Superku help me write. I would just copy and paste into SED and build my basic games in that way. I allowed me to focus on the new ideas and rapidly build a basic framework. Whats wrong with having a visual drag and drop of this copy and paste I was already doing?
However, creating the blueprint system is insane for 3dgs and if not for a lot of hard-work would be a mess for EU4...

Re: unreal engine 4 [Re: ] #449372
03/16/15 21:17
03/16/15 21:17
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,823
Netherlands
Reconnoiter Offline
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Reconnoiter  Offline
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Posts: 1,823
Netherlands
Quote:
However if they had GUI drag and drop and the ability to stack then you could build 3dgs full games this way. Load the in game editor, drop gravity and basic movement on the player Entity and the editor writes out the actual lite-c file. Not Hard! The idea is sound, I've had it working. However 3dgs GUI choke point and my lack of skill in building a snippet library made it something I couldn't finish.
, yeah 3dgs gui doesn't really help here grin . Though it is a good idea. I have thought about it for adding it to my own map editor but it would be too hard to make it flexible for all kinds of different games. For a map editor for a specific game it would work.

Quote:
Whats wrong with having a visual drag and drop of this copy and paste I was already doing?
, nothing wrong, it would be a nice addition. Though I must say having decent sed templates/code snippets and a decent map editor makes a world of difference compared to WED and default sed templates.

Quote:
However, creating the blueprint system is insane for 3dgs and if not for a lot of hard-work would be a mess for EU4...
, yup

Re: unreal engine 4 [Re: Reconnoiter] #449627
03/26/15 08:39
03/26/15 08:39
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,150
Budapest
sivan Offline
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sivan  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,150
Budapest
some little info:

Terrain lod is like in 3dgs pro, but much faster, its lighting is somehow better, resulting in less visible artifacts, but high resolution (1vertex/1m) is required to get good dynamic shadows (with low resolution you will get grey triangles). And finally I could made my own far-lod billboard model material (meaning shader), that I will try to implement with 3dgs too.


navmesh pathfinder with Detour Crowd in action, with a very simple behaviour no more than 200 characters can be used, but it is really fine for a lot of game genres (except RTS):


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Re: unreal engine 4 [Re: sivan] #449643
03/27/15 06:58
03/27/15 06:58
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,225
germany
gri Offline
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Happy Birthday gri  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,225
germany
hey nice


"Make a great game or kill it early" (Bruce Shelley, Ensemble Studios)
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