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Re: IMMORTALITY (will it ever happen?) [Re: Random] #412086
11/22/12 14:43
11/22/12 14:43
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,801
netherlands
Realspawn Offline

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no one knows what heaven is cause no one that has been there
has told the story alive . Print is not proof laugh

now i imagine an island with me and 3 blond beach babes could mean heaven laugh
unless they turn out to be lesbians then i would be in hell for sure laugh

Last edited by Realspawn; 11/22/12 14:43.

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Re: IMMORTALITY (will it ever happen?) [Re: Realspawn] #412087
11/22/12 15:04
11/22/12 15:04
Joined: Feb 2008
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Australia
EvilSOB Offline
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I have always wondered...

If I live a good and sin-free life, get hit by a bus and go to heaven...

Will I then be allowed to indulge in all the sins I abstained from whilst alive?


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Re: IMMORTALITY (will it ever happen?) [Re: EvilSOB] #412622
11/30/12 03:58
11/30/12 03:58
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 795
U.S.A. Michigan
exile Offline
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I just thought of something. Physics doesn't measure the energy of consciousness of the individual, nor of the collective of humanity for that matter, it just doesn't know how yet. Thus the traditional physical laws can't possibly take this into account. Remember that at one time we couldn't measure radiation or magnetism either, but they were there. And we've just begun to notice dark matter, but we have no idea how to define it, or how to fold it into our existing physical laws. Therefore the flaw is the scientific method itself. Science is slow, and ALWAYS missing something, otherwise we'd have a unified theory. Which leads me to the question of how we can claim to know reality when the comprehension of reality is limited to our minimal understanding of life and the universe?

With that said, we have no way to measure/detect the human soul nor consciousness, we can only detect consciousness by brain waves. However brain waves are only a result of consciousness, not consciousness in itself. Naturally to say it doesn't exist (given my previous statement) would be illogical since we are basing this conclusion on the lack of an ability to detect it. The law of conservation of mass implies that mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space and changed into different types of particles. Physicists tell us that all creation is based on energy and
vibration. Energies vibrating at certain compound frequencies, or at a certain matrix level, constitute the universe we perceive with the senses of our physical body and interpret in our brain.

So would it not be possible that the human soul is just made of energy which, after death, is freed from its binding of our perceived reality?

Last edited by exile; 11/30/12 03:59.
Re: IMMORTALITY (will it ever happen?) [Re: exile] #412652
11/30/12 15:25
11/30/12 15:25
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
lostclimate Offline OP
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who says a human "soul" exists? A lot of studies are being done right now on the concept of free will and they are finding that your when asked a question your brain finds the answer before you know you decided (when you feel undecided still). Or so some MRIs have shown.

Consciousness is possibly just a feeling we have as a response between the time we get sensory input and when our brain decides the outcome of our actions.

Re: IMMORTALITY (will it ever happen?) [Re: lostclimate] #412827
12/03/12 20:58
12/03/12 20:58
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,305
Damocles Offline
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Conciousness is a functionality of the human brain.
No brain no conciousness. Damage a brain in certain areas and you are a vegetable.

So what is nicely called soul is what it actually ment by beeing conscious.

The brain is an organ made of neurons, their connections and chemical
and metabolical processes to sustain this organ.

Physics/Neurobiology/Biochemistry can describe Neurons to a somewhat good extend.
What is still very hard (because you cant just take a working human brain apart an play around)
is to understand the large scale information processing network.
It very complex, like looking at a smartphone having only 18th century equipment:
You can tell that there is electricity, what materials its roughly made of,
there is something processing (corrupting it will stop processing)
and there are many connectors. But there is no way yet of knowing
how the CPU works, and even less how its programmed.

Anyway. Consciousness is a physical property, relying on
complex information processing. based on already good understood physical processes in the micro scale.
Not some "outer dimension" or "metaphysical" process.
Also not a quantum physical process (the quantum effects have
no effect in the macro scale of a Neuron, they statistically
even out)

its Just that we don't understand the information processing
system behind it yet.
But we do know how its operating in the micro scale in general.
Once its understood (and one has the huge mapping data) it could be even simulated on a Turing machine.
Its not special, just complex.

Also the Kurzweilian "singularity" will not happen just
because out computers will be so damn fast in the future.
Its not a question of processing power (thats just a convenience
of having the machines work faster)
First the programming must be understood.
Any simulation can work on current computers, they just need
much longer and longer tape drives to do it than in the future. The output is the same.
You can even render a Crysis frame on a C64, when you give it
enough memory to swap data to... and wait long enough.


I also doubt that there is a specific area of the brain that
is the councious part. Its probably a multi-module setup.
Damaging one part impairs the consciousness as whole, while
keeping it still enabled. Up to the point where too many
or too important modules are dysfunctional.
Probably where the brain can not self reflect (receiving and processing its own information), and only acts
on some lower instincts.

Quote:
Physics doesn't measure the energy of consciousness of the individual

You can do that already. Just check how many calories your brain uses. The part actually used for information processing
is what your consciousness uses, and which warms your hat in winter. Less than your PC right now.

Re: IMMORTALITY (will it ever happen?) [Re: Damocles] #412843
12/04/12 01:19
12/04/12 01:19
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
lostclimate Offline OP
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lostclimate  Offline OP
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Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
Originally Posted By: Damocles
Conciousness is a functionality of the human brain.
No brain no conciousness. Damage a brain in certain areas and you are a vegetable.

So what is nicely called soul is what it actually ment by beeing conscious.

The brain is an organ made of neurons, their connections and chemical
and metabolical processes to sustain this organ.

Physics/Neurobiology/Biochemistry can describe Neurons to a somewhat good extend.
What is still very hard (because you cant just take a working human brain apart an play around)
is to understand the large scale information processing network.
It very complex, like looking at a smartphone having only 18th century equipment:
You can tell that there is electricity, what materials its roughly made of,
there is something processing (corrupting it will stop processing)
and there are many connectors. But there is no way yet of knowing
how the CPU works, and even less how its programmed.

Anyway. Consciousness is a physical property, relying on
complex information processing. based on already good understood physical processes in the micro scale.
Not some "outer dimension" or "metaphysical" process.
Also not a quantum physical process (the quantum effects have
no effect in the macro scale of a Neuron, they statistically
even out)

its Just that we don't understand the information processing
system behind it yet.
But we do know how its operating in the micro scale in general.
Once its understood (and one has the huge mapping data) it could be even simulated on a Turing machine.
Its not special, just complex.

Also the Kurzweilian "singularity" will not happen just
because out computers will be so damn fast in the future.
Its not a question of processing power (thats just a convenience
of having the machines work faster)
First the programming must be understood.
Any simulation can work on current computers, they just need
much longer and longer tape drives to do it than in the future. The output is the same.
You can even render a Crysis frame on a C64, when you give it
enough memory to swap data to... and wait long enough.


I also doubt that there is a specific area of the brain that
is the councious part. Its probably a multi-module setup.
Damaging one part impairs the consciousness as whole, while
keeping it still enabled. Up to the point where too many
or too important modules are dysfunctional.
Probably where the brain can not self reflect (receiving and processing its own information), and only acts
on some lower instincts.

Quote:
Physics doesn't measure the energy of consciousness of the individual

You can do that already. Just check how many calories your brain uses. The part actually used for information processing
is what your consciousness uses, and which warms your hat in winter. Less than your PC right now.


basically what i wanted to say but figured people might not want to hear, people like to think we have some special spiritual part of us. we don't. we are basically machines

Re: IMMORTALITY (will it ever happen?) [Re: lostclimate] #412854
12/04/12 11:00
12/04/12 11:00
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 650
Sajeth Offline
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Sajeth  Offline
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Posts: 650
Originally Posted By: lostclimate
basically what i wanted to say but figured people might not want to hear, people like to think we have some special spiritual part of us. we don't. we are basically machines



And you know that because of..?


Everyone who truly believes we are only biological machines doesn't take those conclusions far enough. If there is truly nothing except this life, the only solution to every single one of life's problems would be suicide.


Teleschrott-Fan.
Re: IMMORTALITY (will it ever happen?) [Re: Sajeth] #412856
12/04/12 11:58
12/04/12 11:58
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,305
Damocles Offline
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That behavior would be evolutionary selected out.
Thats why self suicide not a dominant trait.

Re: IMMORTALITY (will it ever happen?) [Re: Damocles] #412873
12/04/12 16:03
12/04/12 16:03
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
lostclimate Offline OP
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lostclimate  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
Originally Posted By: Sajeth


And you know that because of..?


Everyone who truly believes we are only biological machines doesn't take those conclusions far enough. If there is truly nothing except this life, the only solution to every single one of life's problems would be suicide.
Originally Posted By: Damocles
That behavior would be evolutionary selected out.
Thats why self suicide not a dominant trait.


Exactly.

and you know gravity is really gravity and not some interdimensional outside force that just appears to be gravity like because? because thats what observed science knows, and until we find otherwise thats all we can assume.

Re: IMMORTALITY (will it ever happen?) [Re: lostclimate] #412875
12/04/12 16:39
12/04/12 16:39
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 434
UK,Terra, SolarSystem, Milky W...
pararealist Offline
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pararealist  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 434
UK,Terra, SolarSystem, Milky W...
Some thoughts.
I am not my body.
I inhabit my body.
when my body is exhausted, i leave it.
I can choose if i want to have a new body
in case i want to experience more on the matter plane.
Anyway i am energy and always will be.

How do i know this?
I know it, for this knowledge it is stored in me, so i do not have to belie-ve it.
I have left my body countless times, as many others have.

So get to know instead of believing what someone(including me) tells you.


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