If you don't have confidence in out politicians thats totally ok. But why fighting a thread with dumb means, that doesn't even exist? Or has any person ever hindered you to say what you want?

I think that this discussion is getting really pointless, I think in the interest of friendship we'll just have to agree to disagree before we get into a more heated argument.

I appreciate that you´ve brought that up, I think it´s a good suggestion.

Now go and make love, have fun, spread disease.

We need not to make it pointless and heated though, I'll summarize. So two ideas here, correct me if I'm mistaken.

One is positive to showing that we won't listen to another culture when they have so many and powerful extremists among them, showing we will stand our ground with our own norms and values.

The other is positive to showing that we shouldn't make a culture angry by means that are not so bad for us, but are for this other culture, to show understanding and willing to find another way to deal with the rotten apples.

Both ideas will not solve the problem. Rather they depict how we want to look like towards this other culture. Do we show how our share of the world is important to us (freedom of speech on all accounts), or will we show respect to those who practice the Islam truthfully and work with them together to solve their rotten-apple problem?


In my opinion, while the latter idea sounds like it would work better, in reality it is not. The hatred towards us within Islamic extremists is so big, they'll take any chance to declare war to us, whether that be drawings or any other reason. So if we make a habit about not making drawings of Muhammad (exactly like how we treat drawings of swastika's), shouldn't we also remove anything else that makes them angry? They eventually don't care if we draw Muhammad or have a church in our city centre. It's all the same for them: a reason to tear us down.

I think adding these small respectful courtesies is beyond the line. We have been very generous adding mosques to our countries, and truthful Muslims are welcomed here, but have you counted the churches in their countries? We have shown enough respect, it's time they show respect from their side to us. But I'm open to be reasoned.

Just look this English video from The Young Turks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMz0aIM2_sM&NR=1

The moderator is Muslim and even he does not get why they get upset. He says it quite simply:
The Muslim is told to not draw a picture of Mohammed.
The Muslim is told to not eat pork, to not drink alcohol, to pray... and so on.

But people of other religions don't belong to this circle, they can eat pork, drink alcohol or paint an image of whatever they like.

@Frank: What is so surprising about liberate muslims? That is most likely the norm. But what about the non-extremistic minorities that still feel attacked?


You're absolutely right. Both "methods", i.e. doing cartoons or doing no cartoons, won't work in terms of succeeding to open the extremists eyes, turning their rifles into flowers or convincing anybody about anything.

But, and that is the most important point for me, by doing cartoons we create the chance that some peaceful men will feel provoked and will maybe get a more extreme point of view than they had before. Maybe they will just feel insulted. That's the better option in this case. So the second method is not better, but does less harm. And that is an attribute of quality in my opinion.

The question if this day is doing harm is already answered. Not by any user around here, but by facts. Pakistan blocked facebook, i.e. resignation happened. You can't say that this is a success story...

@Michael: This has got nothing to do with friendship. We are exchanging opinions here and that is a good thing. Exchanging opinions means thinking, sharing thoughts and to get a broader point of view. I still like you as much as before. I think you're a nice guy, even if I don't know you personally.

What I would take serious instead is the extreme comments that come by on youtube. They sensor every tiny piece of boob which is not sexually implied, but calling Allah a fag that rapes Muslims in hell in the comments is all fine. (and then drawing a stick figure is all serious and childish, I don't get it). These policies frighten me more than anything else. But different subject, right.

Yes, this draw-a-mohammad day is a bit shame, that came quite out of nowhere though, like all the other this-day-is-special days. But it is nothing we can possibly prevent. These hypes will subside soon it's just the first time it's interesting, common sense people will grow tired of it and forget about it. I don't really think we should get that as a big deal. It IS the internet. That pakistan blocked facebook for it is their loss. The same how China scared away google. It is what happens, and we should definitely not have stopped draw-a-muhammad day just so pakistan wont block facebook. (heck I keep hoping the Netherlands will block facebook, I take offense to farmville, petville, mafiaville and designer pillows).

I rather have us all focussing on swearing on youtube. That would probably shape more hatred in people than drawing muhammads.

I think this is not good too. But once again this shows that idiotism is not a question of religion.

Problems like this will occur in the future every day. There is no reason to take everything in a forum like Facebook or Youtube too serious. There are mainly kids, many kids did not finish their education, react emotional and are not mature. But they can publish each dumb video today.

The world should be able to ignore things like this. People should be able to recognize serious sources of data and information. They should also be able to recognize that a small kid is not a typical example of a mature member of a certain society.

Otherwise this concept of world-wide free communication should be seriously evaluated.

I totally agree wit you, Frank. But unfortunately not every bullshit poster is a kid. There are also some persons that just want to spread hate and even more unfortunately succeed. However, the policy they are driving there seems strange to me nevertheless.