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[Advice] Ragdoll, Collisions & Physics #294891
10/21/09 19:15
10/21/09 19:15
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,550
United Kingdom
indiGLOW Offline OP
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indiGLOW  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,550
United Kingdom
I am in the process of prototypin a new title and would appreciate comments, suggestions and advice about how to approach the issue of character ragdoll, primarily to do with physics (actual or faked) when killing a character.

In other words how to deform the model, handle bone collisions with other models, terrains and so forth. What is the best approach to ensure lower overheads on GPU etc.

I am not looking for someone to script this for me, just some insight into pitfalls, good methodology and so on.

TIA for your input laugh


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Re: [Advice] Ragdoll, Collisions & Physics [Re: indiGLOW] #294959
10/22/09 08:23
10/22/09 08:23
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,023
The Netherlands
Helghast Offline
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Helghast  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,023
The Netherlands
look at the code I made, i'm making it into a plugin, but havent had time for that lately xD
all those issue's have been solved, all you have to make after that is a proper ragdoll setup for each different character.

send me over an email, i'll send the files to you, it's not that hard, just took me alot of years to figure it all out from scratch tongue hahahaa

regards,


Formerly known as dennis_fantasy
Portfolio - http://www.designorhea.com/
Project - http://randomchance.cherrygames.org/
Re: [Advice] Ragdoll, Collisions & Physics [Re: Helghast] #294980
10/22/09 11:38
10/22/09 11:38
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,252
Hummel Offline
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Hummel  Offline
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Posts: 2,252
I´m also interested in these files, can I give you my e-mail too?

Re: [Advice] Ragdoll, Collisions & Physics [Re: Hummel] #294991
10/22/09 12:35
10/22/09 12:35
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,550
United Kingdom
indiGLOW Offline OP
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indiGLOW  Offline OP
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Thanks Helghast, I will drop you an email a little later if that's ok?

I've spent a fair amount of time myself working with bones, including rigging up a head to turn and follow players, moving eyes at the correct amount etc. So I am pretty happy that I can write it ,although it sounds like your script might save me some time there, much appreicated.

I am working with 3D Studio max and Biped, so all my bones are named and easily referenced so that shouldn't be to hard to setup.

My questions are really about performance, for example, do you need to run a lot of tracing to get the final rest position or does the bones system support some kind of physics collision? What are the overheads if that is true?

The title I am working on at the moment can have around 30 active agents including up to four players over network / internet, so it would be really good to have an idea how to manage this.

I suspect that ragdoll during death will be client side only, as the final resting position of the model will not be critical, unless they interact with other entities (something I am not planning on at present).

Thanks for sharing, please let me know if you (or anyone else) has any more advice.


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Re: [Advice] Ragdoll, Collisions & Physics [Re: indiGLOW] #294995
10/22/09 13:19
10/22/09 13:19
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,023
The Netherlands
Helghast Offline
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Helghast  Offline
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Posts: 3,023
The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: indiGLOW
Thanks Helghast, I will drop you an email a little later if that's ok?


Sure wink

Originally Posted By: indiGLOW

I've spent a fair amount of time myself working with bones, including rigging up a head to turn and follow players, moving eyes at the correct amount etc. So I am pretty happy that I can write it ,although it sounds like your script might save me some time there, much appreicated.


Good that definatly helps in setting it up... however it's mroe about setting up the ragdoll physics objects properly.

Originally Posted By: indiGLOW

I am working with 3D Studio max and Biped, so all my bones are named and easily referenced so that shouldn't be to hard to setup.

My questions are really about performance, for example, do you need to run a lot of tracing to get the final rest position or does the bones system support some kind of physics collision? What are the overheads if that is true?


It's physics impacts using ODE (I guess it can be updated for PXent or Newton just as easy), which with alot of collisions does tend to be a bit slow

Originally Posted By: indiGLOW

The title I am working on at the moment can have around 30 active agents including up to four players over network / internet, so it would be really good to have an idea how to manage this.

I suspect that ragdoll during death will be client side only, as the final resting position of the model will not be critical, unless they interact with other entities (something I am not planning on at present).


30 active ragdolls might make a pc go slow... you'll have to pull out some tricks (updating bones only when a certain degree was rotated, and after a certain amount of ragdolls disable earlier ones, etc etc)...

Originally Posted By: indiGLOW

Thanks for sharing, please let me know if you (or anyone else) has any more advice.


it's alot of setting things up properly, but when it's done and working it's definatly worth it, good luck!
you can drop me a line whenever you need some advice.

kind regards,


Formerly known as dennis_fantasy
Portfolio - http://www.designorhea.com/
Project - http://randomchance.cherrygames.org/
Re: [Advice] Ragdoll, Collisions & Physics [Re: Helghast] #294999
10/22/09 13:28
10/22/09 13:28
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,816
at my pc (duh)
darkinferno Offline
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darkinferno  Offline
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at my pc (duh)
having up to 30 ragdolls is doable but also remember that, not because 30 guys die means that all their ragdolls are being moved at the same time, some may have died before and stopped moving, freeing up resources

Re: [Advice] Ragdoll, Collisions & Physics [Re: darkinferno] #295004
10/22/09 13:56
10/22/09 13:56
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,550
United Kingdom
indiGLOW Offline OP
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indiGLOW  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,550
United Kingdom
@darkinferno: Getting a balance for performance shouldn't be too hard, also I guess not all deaths will require ragdoll, in some cases complete vapourization wont leave much to ragdoll laugh

Of course having a cutoff point so that once the bodies are settled they do not collide any more will also help.

@Helghast: I've dropped you a PM with my email address laugh


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Re: [Advice] Ragdoll, Collisions & Physics [Re: indiGLOW] #295083
10/22/09 21:54
10/22/09 21:54
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,550
United Kingdom
indiGLOW Offline OP
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indiGLOW  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,550
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@Helghast: Would be really helpful if you could forward me a link, or email me your code example, just so I can get a handle on the way you have approached it.

Thanks in Advance


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Re: [Advice] Ragdoll, Collisions & Physics [Re: indiGLOW] #295146
10/23/09 04:56
10/23/09 04:56
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,107
Germany
rayp Offline

X
rayp  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,107
Germany
Ive tryed the ragdoll from helghast a year ago. Its working great. But i never managed to remove the ragdoll bodys (after some time). frown


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Re: [Advice] Ragdoll, Collisions & Physics [Re: rayp] #295338
10/24/09 14:19
10/24/09 14:19
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,550
United Kingdom
indiGLOW Offline OP
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indiGLOW  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,550
United Kingdom
I am trying to get my head around this and it seems the more I experiment the more confused I become.

The one conclusion I've come to is that whilst it would be a nice little feature, including Rag Doll at this stage is not vital and as I improve the rigging of my game characters and with the export pipeline through .fbx working very well for me I am sure that I can come back at a later stage and add it.

Maybe Helghast will have some kind of plugin kicked out by then too.

Either way its certainly given me food for thought...

Cheers all


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