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Re: "Alien" caught in trap - now examined
[Re: PHeMoX]
#291870
09/28/09 16:39
09/28/09 16:39
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,093 Germany
Toast
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Obviously the basketball example makes a good visual representation of that idea, but in a practical sense the ball is not really 'everywhere'. (It's perhaps also where a multi-dimensional idea conflicts with our every day practice of a single dimensional life (we can currently only go forward in time, in 3D).) I actually meant just the part of really touching the basketball. Like for friction people have this image of a rough surface each object has which intersect each other and so on. While it's not such a big step I found people being surprised that things don't "touch" each other at all because their knowledge usually stops at a mechanical world view... For their multidimensional existance of the ball I guess you're right and they did a bit too much here although the idea behind it imo gets expressed pretty welll... Enjoy your meal Toast
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Re: "Alien" caught in trap - now examined
[Re: Toast]
#292047
09/29/09 21:02
09/29/09 21:02
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177 Netherlands
PHeMoX
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Like for friction people have this image of a rough surface each object has which intersect each other and so on. While it's not such a big step I found people being surprised that things don't "touch" each other at all because their knowledge usually stops at a mechanical world view... If you think that because on an (sub)atomic level touching something involves positive and negative energy, that you're not really touching the ball, then you're wrong. Touching something is synonymous to 'interacting' with something. That certainly is happening. Touching something is usually evident by collision or friction related behavior, yet the workings of physics on a sub-atomic level turns out to work with or involve energy. That shouldn't be too surprising actually. Don't forget objects can't have friction by true intersection, as even the smallest mass simply will not allow this to happen. As a result, it's a bit questionable whether it's valid to think of object collisions and the impacts involved as being a result of two not actually touching objects. There is clearly interaction going on.
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Re: "Alien" caught in trap - now examined
[Re: PHeMoX]
#292060
09/29/09 22:09
09/29/09 22:09
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,093 Germany
Toast
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Well ok - we now can discuss what "touching" can mean. I meant it in the standard everyday meaning i.e. to objects "touch" each other. In reality the nucleons won't do that though... There of course is the interaction and what the movie imo does a good job on is to explain that the parts which actually make up the solid shape of the things we know actually won't touch (unless you really want them to but that goes beyond what a person's household should be able to give)... Enjoy your meal Toast
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Re: "Alien" caught in trap - now examined
[Re: Toast]
#292105
09/30/09 11:47
09/30/09 11:47
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177 Netherlands
PHeMoX
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Well ok - we now can discuss what "touching" can mean. I meant it in the standard everyday meaning i.e. to objects "touch" each other. In reality the nucleons won't do that though... The standard everyday meaning is based upon the perception of how two things come into contact and interact. Again it makes no sense to look upon this as two objects not actually touching each other, the interaction is there. It's just how it works on a sub-atomic level.
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Re: "Alien" caught in trap - now examined
[Re: PHeMoX]
#292108
09/30/09 12:22
09/30/09 12:22
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,093 Germany
Toast
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In a mechanical sense of looking at things things actually touch though - i.e. the distance of the objects' surfaces pretty much goes to zero. The delivered information which people usually don't realize (at least that's my experience) is that such a "touching" won't happen on a sub-atomic level but the interactions happen on a distance... That's a huge conceptional difference imo - in the one case things interact in some "mechanical" way i.e. the actual masses interact while in the other case all the interaction isn't really done by the involved particles but rather some effects, fields and whatever else there gets "spawned" by the particles is responsible for the interactions. That's quite some leap forward for someone explaining everything with billiard... Enjoy your meal Toast
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Re: "Alien" caught in trap - now examined
[Re: Toast]
#292116
09/30/09 13:07
09/30/09 13:07
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,232 Australia
EvilSOB
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IMHO, it a very well done fake. Only fails at basically one point I can pick. Its impact with the water is wrong. When the 'spaceship' dives into the water, 1> the splash 'shape' is wrong for something hitting the water that rapidly. 2> the sound of the splash is instant, no time delay as one would expect from an object 300-500 meters distant. 3> the splash sound is too 'soft', not the 'slap' sound of a solid object hitting water.
But it is certainly one of the better ones Ive seen.
"There is no fate but what WE make." - CEO Cyberdyne Systems Corp. A8.30.5 Commercial
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Re: "Alien" caught in trap - now examined
[Re: MMike]
#292121
09/30/09 13:47
09/30/09 13:47
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,093 Germany
Toast
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2> the sound of the splash is instant, no time delay as one would expect from an object 300-500 meters distant. 3> the splash sound is too 'soft', not the 'slap' sound of a solid object hitting water. You can hear the water splash? I tried to for several times now but I hear nothing because the jet engine sound is just too loud... Concerning the things actually hitting the water - well I can't really say too much about this because if you do some zoomed in stop-motion views you'll see that very much gets lost in compression artifacts... Currently there is said to be a pilot saying that they really were there shooting something down. I'll see if I can get some trustable info on this... Enjoy your meal Toast
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