This is exactly what we are talking about. We are looking at videos of some kind of end products (though this time they are only tech demos of Torque3d).
And sometimes we look at finished games (the gallery of Ogre, Torque and Unity3d or the new Instant action platform is full of them).

You are right, that workflow is not the only fact, especially not for professionals. You see this easily if you look at the raising amount of professional games made with Ogre3d. They even have to code their own editors. But they decided to use a flexible and powerful engine with full source code.

And I agree, you can make small Windows games with each of these engines. Some of them can even produce games for web browsers, iPhone, Wii or Mac.
The multi-platform availability can be important especially for small games and small indie developers. And having a good work-flow will help as well because we all have limited time.

And these are some of the reasons why a few developers are happy to see good tools, simple scripting, easy publishing to many platforms. It makes their lives easier, even if they develop very small home-brewed games.

Unity started to deliver all this and Garage-Games realized that they have to compete. And they do their best to deliver something similar. And as we can see they seem to reach this goal soon.

agreeing with the above post, look, when selling an engine, game, car, w/e, one rule counts.. the better it looks, the more attention you attract... torque as realized this and alot of upcoming designers will rarely choose gs... simply because...

It makes their lives easier, even if they develop very small home-brewed games.

Yes , lot of time saved to work on 3D art and level design, new ideas ...

@Losticmate :
Don't take it too bad, i don't wanted to insult you saying the word "Fanboy", just meaned to say you was perhaps too much attached to A7. REmember in life all the things change over time and you must follow and adapt
Unity didn't exist, Torque was too rigid, A7 was a good tool.
Now things have changed, and they will change in future , just
don't hesitate to move to other solutions (3D engines or tools).
Well indeed you've done great outstanding ,and some people can produce cool things with A7 !

And for casual games , on PC , A7 can do a great job.

What would be cool in A7 would be QUALITY templates like the incoming racing template for the new Torque 3D !
3D quality models and textures.
Conitec team should consider that , and i'm sure there are lot of people that would not hesitate to put some 40 bucks to
have a quality template !

Well let's talks back to Torque 3D

Actually Instant Action is Torque, which brings me to mention that the games on there are more than enough proof for TGEA.

[quote=darkinferno]agreeing with the above post, look, when selling an engine, game, car, w/e, one rule counts.. the better it looks, the more attention you attract... torque as realized this and alot of upcoming designers will rarely choose gs... simply because...[/url]

Completely true, that's why most indies that can't draw just make the game look scribbly, which MOST people pass off as a great looking art game. To me it's just scribbles, but it's the gameplay that matters.

Back on the T3D train: The blogs they have been posting about T3D have impressed me well enough to say that it can pull off nice graphics. So far with TGEA they have had some nice games released (Dreamlords, Buccaneer, Fallen Empire) which prove the engine is good at MMOs and networking. Actually, those three games and Lore Aftermath are reason enough (to me) to get Torque. At first I was a bit concerned with T3D and wondering if it would be fast and good looking and it has both. Apparently it's also good for mid and low range systems.

When I saw Torque back in '04 I thought 'There's no way in hell I'm gonna get that engine'. The license was horrible, as a matter of fact IT was the reason I didn't get Torque to begin with, instead we got A6 around '05. I have to say, A6 made it easy for me to jump into programming and now I'm happy to say that I'm ready to move up to Torque, although it'll be about a year or two of learning TorqueScript and C++ (i know some basic cpp, but that's it. another thanks to cscript) I'll be able to walk in on a cusion rather than a hardwood floor so to speak. There's no way I would've tried jumping to C++ back then.

It's just that so far Torque has been proven, I think It's gonna be a good engine (T3D), and since you still get the license to use TGEA you can downgrade at any time.

http://www.opserver.de/ubb7/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showgallery&Number=272855&gonew=1#UNREAD

there you go, dynamic shadow mapping.

It is interesting how fast T3D develops these days. I remember some other times.

Beta3 is now available:
http://www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/17661

new features:
- PhysX Cloth objects
- Shape Editor
- Decal Editor (wrapped and aligned decals in real-time)
- Mesh Road Editor
- improved Material Editor
- normal and parallax mapping for terrain
- zones and portals (finally you can make large indoors from models)

This is really impressive.

Perhaps they have hired more people in the team !!

But that's sure the different editors are great in terms of workflow and features , we could almost say it is 3D artist oriented.

But how many people/teams buying it will produce 3D quality art to use with these tools ?

Quite a lot. Some professional teams made games with Torque (e.g. Hinterland):
http://www.garagegames.com/best-of-torque/torque-3d

Yes ,
i forgot those ones ,and the ones in progress.
Hinterlands is a really cool one, and Penny arcade adventures for X360 !

Yeah , Torque is used by professionnals indeed

That's also what makes me want it more.

@Frank: Yea I read that blog yesterday, I like how it's progressing.