i dont mind the strong coding powers of gs. you can see that jcl and co can code and that they know how to manage programming. coding was never the problem with gs and i suggest keeping it a strong point.
the issue is just that there is no development noticable in other areas at all.

i agree totaly with whats said above. in the beginning years you had to code to create simple 3d models (still have a lightwave version of that at home), but times change and so should tools.

and a lot of people think so right now about the engine. its not just the oppinion of a few nutheads.
as far as i am concerned i would love to see this engine gain its power again step by step. unlike a lot of other engines this one would be worth the hussle.

its about time that something is done. and sometimes its smarter to raise from the ashes then dragging dead horses arround the city. rethink the concept of gs. because there is nothing 6-9months of development couldnt change here dramaticly.

cheers

The issue is now and will always be about money. Conitec is a business and they are in it to generate a profit. Therefore, like any other business they have a budget and this is based on projections tied to product sales. Certainly there is a figure set aside for development of the engine and this would be mostly in the form of paying salaries for programmers to program tools and features for the engine. There is no money comming in if you are creating a product, only when you sell it do you generate an income. So by simply thinking about it everyone can see that Conitec obviously knows what they are doing because they have been around for a very long time. Have they produced a good working product? Yes. Does it compete with Unreal 3, Hero or Bigworld? No not at this time. If anyone is not please with what they have produced then you have 3 choices. Deal with it. Pay someone or write your own engine, see you in 5 to 7 years. Choose another engine, hope your pockets are deep. It all boils down to this, you get what you pay for and we are all getting a decent game engine for less than $200. Yeah sure pro is more but even then your still comming out on top. GS out.

Its funny how this very discussion always comes up every 3 months or so, and always with the same participants and the same arguments. I remember that when I started with 3DGS 7 years ago I've read exactly the same, at that time about 3DGS vs. Wildtangent or Genesis or some other long forgotten engine.

The reason of such threads is that Gamestudio is advertised as a studio for kids and beginners, but is in fact a professional tool that demands a learning curve into game programming. That is not clear to many at first and after some time, comes as a bad surprise.

I think 3DGS will continue to mostly add commands and features to the engine and language, because thats its main purpose. I'm pretty sure this will continue with A8, A9 and so on. Which is fine with me, because I like this combination of ease of use and flexibility that I dont find in any other engine. I dont care about more editing tools at all. Professionals use other editors anyway.

"Does it compete with Unreal 3, Hero or Bigworld? No not at this time"
The main problem is that it doesn't even compete with Torque or Unity , which are now the 2 indie leading game engines. If it continues down this road , nobody will even consider gamestudio anymore. Gamestudio's appeal has ALWAYS been , great and powerful engine , good scripting language , NO NEED TO BE A PROGRAMMER TO MAKE GAMES. And if you ARE a programmer , you could get the sdk and CREATE YOUR OWN DLLS DIRECTLY WITH C++. So , it was BEAUTIFUL , it was perfect , for everyone. But now , it's a pile of garbage , and is turning into a programmer's tool I guess. Who knows , but with it's same old tired interface , half implemented features , limited platforms(just windows actually), more and more programmer oriented, no realtime tools , I really can't see anyone in a year or 2 from now even considering purchasing this engine , other than people who already use it and are fond of it.

But like I said , who knows , maybe they have a trick under their sleeve with A8 , but I truly doubt it .

the only reason gs survived is because 3-4 years back the expectations for engines where what gs could offer. it was way more vital to have very basic and very stable 3d engine features as an indy.

times have changed.

hardly any decent project created with gs in the last 3 years speaks a pretty clear language. having less and less old timers in the forum adds antother point as well as the fact that innovative and inspireing new releases harldy ever surface lately.

having the same discussion every 3 months just shows that the problems dont get solved.

and maybe the only reason conitec isnt broke yet might be the fact that they do something beside engine development that brings them money.
maybe it also reduces the time they can spend on gs. it at least looks like it.

cheis

Maybe jcl just wants to milk it as long as possible with the current minimal work investment and then retire.

Like i said

3DGS becomes lot more programming tool each step.
That's it's way. that's all.
Some of us like it alot and would want it to have lot more all in one tools, but it costs money, demands a bigger team etc ...

Even in Dark Basic Pro that is a slow prgram , lot of people are mainly kids discovering 3D programming and playing with code.
Fro 3DGS it's also the same even if some pro people use it.

In fact that's to you to buy another engine or continue with A7.
You are the only person that know if A7 has enought tools
for the task you want to do; or if its is too much code oriented for making more easier and quicly a game ?

But with some work, with A7 you can do cool things
What i don't like is the old interface that is really outdated
when it appears on screen, some times ,i you would prefer to close the application right away caus it looks so old and slow !

And it's really slow.

I hope A8 would haved a totally new today interface.

So let's A7 become in the way it will be : more code oriented
for coders pleasure and game beginners pleasure !


The only thing i don't like a lot (but it's like that) :
Lot of people ask for coding features instead of panels/tools, they play with them , but dont start make a real game and just play with some code ??
It's clients, so it's like that !!

Well the thread was about Torque 3D no ??

So - what do you want Conitec to do?

Create a great new level and model editor?
This might take a long time and since they don't create games, how should they know about your art pipeline?
I guess they have not even created their own level and might not even have an idea about what you need.

Create an importer plugin for levels created with another tool?
This would not help with realtime placing of lights and adjusting light attributes, because the other editor might use another light model and it is very likely that the in-game lights would look different from what you have created in you favorite editor.

Add more level types to level_load() in order to load levels created with 3rd party tools
This would take some time, too but "it is just another filetype"... lots of work for collision, lights, etc. but faster to develop than a full featured 3D level editor.

What do you think?
Lets define a goal and the steps needed to get what we want - as community project or as request for Conitec.

We should know what we want before knocking at Conitecs door

Hey but if JCL is milking it doesnt that go along with what I said? Its a business and they are all about money. People harp about T3D and Unity but lets hold up on these engines because nobody has created a game with T3D since it isnt even released yet. Secondly no major titles or not anything I would consider to be that good has been created with Unity, with the exception of Fusion Fall. They have the tools but lets not vote either one in the hall of fame just yet. The point is people want the tools and they cost money. Conitec doesnt care that you need or want tools. I agree that if they want to compete then they need to step up greatly for next version. However, how long does it take? Will their tech be then outdated again? Hard to play catchup in this business of games and game programming. Now heres the kicker....
Im creating a prototype now for my game... Can I shock you with graphics, level design and gameplay using Gstudio? I guess we will see. Look for a demo in the near future. Things are about to get "dark" around here... (evil laugh) GS out.

We should know what we want before knocking at Conitecs door

wel some people ,especially 3D artist know what they want in A7.
but that's more a termes of money and team (A7 team is not as big as Unity or T3D team) ! And lot of young coders ask for code or functions instead of tools : that's another point.

Some tools / templates are coming, that's good
I had A6 , and sometimes asked for some tools, theyr are not here , even today !
So all people stop asking , hoping :
THINGS WILL BE DONE WHEN THEY WILL BE DONE

If you cant' wait a year for some tools , the solution is :
Just buy another engine !
But you can come back to 3DGS, caus it's evolving and perhaps for a special game or effects , A7 will give you better control of things by code !!


And for the commercial version, the price it's OK.
Even if you don't have all tools you want, it's better than programming directly in C++ like Ogre3D or TV3 all your tools and your own World editor (that can take some month or years ).

Admit it's lot better than FPS Creator for example : Buggy , very slow, very limited !!

Well long life to A7 like i said !