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Re: Assume a God exists...
[Re: NITRO777]
#234721
11/04/08 12:16
11/04/08 12:16
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia
JibbSmart
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yeah, interesting poll, but i cannot answer it. that doesn't make this off-topic though; perhaps you'd be interested in "why".
when you refer to God as "God", it's very difficult to separate the "God" i know from this anonymous character you're describing; a god limited by human perception and knowledge compared to my "God" i know much better and already have a faith in. this poll would be much easier to answer for atheists, and even then, it wouldn't be much of a religious poll as most answers would be from non-religious people.
for example, if you created a poll saying "Assume a Robert Neville" exists, and asked me all these questions about this hypothetical "Robert Neville", it'd be too difficult to step away from what i think the "Robert Neville" that i actually know would do (Robbie's my best friend and like a brother to me [even though i have brothers], and isn't that guy from I Am Legend).
now, i could have made that less confusing by using someone else as an example (someone not played by Will Smith), but he's the best example of someone i know well enough that i could answer most questions on his behalf.
i hope that's useful for you.
julz
Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!
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Re: Assume a God exists...
[Re: JibbSmart]
#234734
11/04/08 13:46
11/04/08 13:46
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177 Netherlands
PHeMoX
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To me it's obvious a God would probably be more successful in making people believe in him or her when it would try to actively impress people and let know that he does exist. One way or another some kind of divine intervention also recognized as such would be needed. I don't think he would be interested in books or polls anymore than he would care about ants or plants or rocks. I'm sure he would have learned very fast about humans, (ironically created in his own image?), that they'd take advantage of things if there's a good chance of personal gain. Going by the commonly used definition(s?) of Gods being all knowing and all powerful I'm thinking the purpose isn't to learn.., but at the same time I realize learning about himself may be the one thing left and the one thing hardest to 'study'. when you refer to God as "God", it's very difficult to separate the "God" i know from this anonymous character you're describing; a god limited by human perception and knowledge compared to my "God" i know much better and already have a faith in. this poll would be much easier to answer for atheists, and even then, it wouldn't be much of a religious poll as most answers would be from non-religious people. What would you suggest when it comes "better" poll-options/questions? I know for atheists it's just a theoretical multiple choice thing, so perhaps you're right that it's easier for 'us', but wouldn't you at least agree there are options that make less sense from the perspective of logic? Cheers
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Re: Assume a God exists...
[Re: PHeMoX]
#234820
11/04/08 21:17
11/04/08 21:17
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,185
mpdeveloper_B
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I thought the questions were okay. They were on a "what do you think" scale. For instance "To observe their behavior" is a great answer. The thing is though, some of the options are rather limited or include a little too much in them such as the "how would God react to athiests". Overall about 3 of the questions are viable, but need more options, and some options need to be split into two...
- aka Manslayer101
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Re: Assume a God exists...
[Re: mpdeveloper_B]
#234839
11/04/08 22:41
11/04/08 22:41
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia
JibbSmart
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logic based on what, though? what was God's purpose in making us? the "logic" of most questions relies heavily on the choice for the first question (the "why"), and that question in itself is very limiting: either God needs our help (learning or making more good) or He made us just to worship Him.
i liked how you, PHeMoX, being an atheist, picked up on that bit as well: God by definition wouldn't be making us so He can learn from us. that should really leave one choice as far as the poll jcl's given us is concerned.
i will do my best to answer the poll; i just don't think a generalised poll for both atheists and theists will return very useful results in a study on religion. i think the survey is asking for the means to several different ends, without separating them.
julz
EDIT: i can't answer the last question. grouping "hate" (ungodly) with "hell" (the best choice for that question) was a bad decision. look up "universalism" and "annihilationism". i'm not saying i believe in those, but from my limited perspective on God's creation i would choose "universalism". none of the other answers are acceptable, but neither is ascribing "hate" to God.
Last edited by JulzMighty; 11/04/08 22:49. Reason: feedback on the last question.
Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!
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Re: Assume a God exists...
[Re: JibbSmart]
#234871
11/05/08 04:10
11/05/08 04:10
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Joined: Feb 2006
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mpdeveloper_B
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I agree on the "learning from us" bit, the only problem is when I did the poll I clicked on a few answers that I didn't mean to click T_T... now if only I could redo it... anyway that's why I said what I did, the answer: "To observe their behavior and learn from them" is both a good and a bad answer, in my opinion "to observe behavior" and "learning from them" should be two different answers. I agree with the "observing" part but not the "learning" part, which is why I said the answers have too much to them or they are not as varied as they should be.
As for the last question, I also did not answer it for that reason. Hate has nothing to do with people going to hell. People go to hell because they send themselves their by refusing to believe in God, so "hate" is completely irrelevant.
- aka Manslayer101
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Re: Assume a God exists...
[Re: mpdeveloper_B]
#234888
11/05/08 07:54
11/05/08 07:54
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121 Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank
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As for the last question, I also did not answer it for that reason. Hate has nothing to do with people going to hell. People go to hell because they send themselves their by refusing to believe in God, so "hate" is completely irrelevant. This makes not much sense to me. Going to hell is a punishment. If you use a punishment to educate your kids then you will not punish them forever. You will punish them for a short while hoping they learn from that and will behave better in the future. Punishing for all eternity is not reasonable especially if you love your kids. It is clearly an act of hate. So I have to agree with JCL.
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Re: Assume a God exists...
[Re: mpdeveloper_B]
#234892
11/05/08 08:12
11/05/08 08:12
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,986 Frankfurt
jcl
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Thank you for the answers so far! Especially interesting is that "Learn about himself" and "God likes Atheists" are leading in questions 1 and 5, as these concepts are not found in the 9 main religious belief patterns of the world.
If you do not agree to any answer on a question, you can post your differing answer here in a comment. For instance, the gods of several Christian and Islamic belief patterns burn people in hell just for their opinion. Burning someone because he disagrees to something is normally considered a hate crime. Of course it's difficult if not impossible to describe a god's feelings, so we're using words associated with human feelings. If a particular god behaves in a way that would be described as hateful in a human, "Hating" fits better than for instance "Disliking". I copied one wrong answer from my original poll that had more options than 4 per questions. Instead of "Befriending", the option in question 4 should have been "Testing selected humans by exposing them to tough choices". But anyway, as polls can't be changed afterwards, so be it.
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Re: Assume a God exists...
[Re: Machinery_Frank]
#234894
11/05/08 08:14
11/05/08 08:14
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia
JibbSmart
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but hell isn't necessarily eternal. look at my edit in my last post. look up universalism and annihilationism. they're not necessarily right, but they're certainly options our "ideal God" could pick.
jcl only included one type of punishment.
julz
EDIT: that was directed at Frank, btw. jcl got in there just before me.
Last edited by JulzMighty; 11/05/08 08:16.
Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!
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