NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES

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Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES [Re: sCKan] #152537 09/08/07 06:34 09/08/07 06:34
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia J JibbSmart Expert
JibbSmart Expert J Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia	Quote: about lights 3dgs only supports stencil shadows z-buffered volumetric shadows are based on distance between light source and objects these kind of shadows produces that the shadows looks bigger when the object is near to the light source or smaller when the object is far to the light source z-buffered shadows only produces far shadows or near shadows but the scale is the same. the ones in A6/A7 are still volumetric shadows. a more common term for volumetric shadows is stencil shadows. that's exactly what you see in A6/A7. you should be requesting that stencil shadows have perspective -- vertex-based projection instead of object based. for your problem, you should ask in the level editing forum. it could be a problem with your build settings. or stencil shadow settings in your code. in fact at the moment it's not a good idea to apply shaders to level geometry (if that's what you're doing) for speed reasons. sorry i can't be more helpful. julz Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!

Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES [Re: JibbSmart] #152538 09/08/07 06:49 09/08/07 06:49
Joined: Aug 2000 Posts: 7,490 O Orange Brat Senior Expert
Orange Brat Senior Expert O Joined: Aug 2000 Posts: 7,490	Quote: you should be requesting that stencil shadows have perspective -- vertex-based projection instead of object based. Yes....if SS are capable of this and a more "Sphere-like" shadow can be produced only with good ol' tried and true SSs then that would be grand. @jcl: If that's something Bill allows via DX9 then make it so, please. It would make all the difference in the world.....rendering speed be damned. Stencils have been around forever and no one complained much for those years (or anyone that matters...they're still used in dozens....hell hundreds.....of titles and smaller studios/teams that don't necessarily want or need full, Glorious shaders-based shadows). A more accurate perspective based SS that can grow and shrink and display on ceilings without shaders is a Holy Grail for me and many others. We don't all want to screw around with shadowmapping...at least not right now. My User Contributions master list - my initial post links are down but scroll down page to find list to active links

Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES [Re: Orange Brat] #152539 09/08/07 17:41 09/08/07 17:41
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 17 S sCKan OP Newbie
sCKan OP Newbie S Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 17	Volumetric Shadows (PRV) already exist in 3dgs as you can see when you add a light in wed, but this lights can't be moved in real time, the lights emitted by entities are different because only can produce stencil shadows. Web Master

Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES [Re: sCKan] #152540 09/09/07 01:33 09/09/07 01:33
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia J JibbSmart Expert
JibbSmart Expert J Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia	stencil shadows are the most common implementation of shadow volumes, or volumetric shadows, or whatever you want to call it. stencil shadows ARE volumetric shadows. julz Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!

Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES [Re: JibbSmart] #152541 09/09/07 10:58 09/09/07 10:58
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,121 Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany Machinery_Frank Senior Expert
Machinery_Frank Senior Expert Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,121 Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany	I support OrangeBrats request for an accurate perspective based real-time shadow (stencil or shader, I did see both so far). Here is a short explanation what Brat and me try to tell. I painted a little pic in Gimp very fast to illustrate that (sorry for the typo): Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft

Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES [Re: Machinery_Frank] #152542 09/12/07 06:31 09/12/07 06:31
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,986 Frankfurt jcl Chief Engineer
jcl Chief Engineer Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,986 Frankfurt	Maybe you were confusing perspective with depth? There is no such thing as a "perspective-correction" of shadows. Perspective is caused by a projection from a point. You can see this with shadows in real life. Shadow lines move a little outwards and a shadow on a wall is bigger than the person that throws this shadows. This is the same in a 3D engine. The dynamic lights that cast volumetric shadows are just points in space. When the light source is far away, like the sun, the perspective is barely noticeable. "Depth" means that far away parts of the shadow look more blurry because they are outshined by the environment light. This requires several shader passes and affects the frame rate, so most 3D games don't use this effect.

Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES [Re: jcl] #152543 09/12/07 07:00 09/12/07 07:00
Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,939 planet.earth ello Senior Expert
ello Senior Expert Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,939 planet.earth	but jcl, what approach will you consider for the softshadows for 3dgs? (which i hope will soon get a new xx% state in the forecast) in the shaderX3 book there are a lot of nice techniques dealing with it (which look like what frank has shown on the right side or Shadow Accumulation ( pdf ) http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~cg/Studienarbeiten/SA_Kipermann.pdf this looks interesting, too: http://www.sci.utah.edu/~bavoil/research/shadows/melissa/

Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES [Re: ello] #152544 09/12/07 07:47 09/12/07 07:47
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,986 Frankfurt jcl Chief Engineer
jcl Chief Engineer Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,986 Frankfurt	I know the shaderX3 book. We'll use a technique that works with shader model 2.0 and still delivers good fast results. I'll have some time in October and will then write a shadow shader.

Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES [Re: jcl] #152545 09/13/07 00:50 09/13/07 00:50
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia J JibbSmart Expert
JibbSmart Expert J Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia	Quote: Maybe you were confusing perspective with depth? but we would like stencil shadows to have perspective. julz Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!

Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES [Re: JibbSmart] #152546 09/13/07 07:50 09/13/07 07:50
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,121 Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany Machinery_Frank Senior Expert
Machinery_Frank Senior Expert Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,121 Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany	No, I did not confuse it. I added this option purposely - not sure if that will be possible. Nevertheless I am looking forward to see the new soft-shadow shader of Conitec and an improved lightmap compiler.

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