|
2 registered members (AndrewAMD, rki),
390
guests, and 0
spiders. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Re: U.S. versus IRAN
[Re: Ran Man]
#124385
04/19/07 17:45
04/19/07 17:45
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
|
Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
|
Quote:
He thinks that --> Jews = Mice ?
No, he didn't say that, he was talking about the fictional mice in the Tom and Jerry cartoon which could be seen as the Jews according to him. I'm not defending the overly absurd analogy and theory of that Iranian scholar, but at least attack him on what he really said.
Cheers
|
|
|
Re: U.S. versus IRAN
[Re: PHeMoX]
#124386
04/19/07 19:25
04/19/07 19:25
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
Ran Man
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
|
Yes good point, but in the video he points out that: Hitler tried to get Germans in WW2 to think that Jews were dirty mice. Right?  It's in the movie!  Okay, so why be concerned about the "Tom and Jerry" cartoon? Why the concern? He must be concerned about the cartoon, because it is clouding the ORIGINAL image that Hitler wanted to show? Namely that Jews = Mice. Right? Why be concerned?  Oh the pain... Because that evil disney guy made the mouse to be good, and old Hitler was right? lol, HAHA! , God what a sicko...
Last edited by Ran Man; 04/19/07 19:26.
|
|
|
Re: U.S. versus IRAN
[Re: PHeMoX]
#124387
04/19/07 19:55
04/19/07 19:55
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany
Robotronic
Senior Member
|
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany
|
It´s a propaganda war after all. I just clicked on two of these videos and they were both provided by a group called Memri. It is an organisation that was founded by an Israeli intelligence officer, and it is frequently accused of handselecting the worst and most stupid stuff from the Islamic world and presenting this to a western audience. Their translations may or may not be "sexed up", but chances are high, they are: Quote:
Ken Livingstone, former British MP and the current Mayor of London, has stated of MEMRI that: "The translation and selection of quotes tend to portray Islam in a very negative light." He has accused MEMRI of "outright distortion".
Ibrahim Hooper, a director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, stated in the Washington Times that "MEMRI's intent is to find the worst possible quotes from the Muslim world and disseminate them as widely as possible."
Hussein Ibish comments that "There is of course some horrific stuff in the Arab press, but one tends to forget that the American press can also be very nasty.
William Rugh, former US ambassador to the United Arab Emirates and Yemen, describes MEMRI as a service which "does not present a balanced or complete picture of the Arab print media. ...Quotes are selected to portray Arabs as preaching hatred against Jews and westerners, praising violence and refusing any peaceful settlement of the Palestinian issue."
Memri / wikipedia
But I have to admit, that the one about Tom&Jerry was funny ...
On a more serious note and back to topic:
I think it is very likely, that the US or Israel will bomb Irans infrastructure in the not so distant future.
This will be good for the US weapons industry and for the current regime in Iran, because the people will rally around their leaders, just like many Americans embraced Bush and the neocons after 9/11.
I do not think, that Iran has a real intent on developping nuclear weapons. I just don´t think, they would make so much noise about this. All military nuclear programms were developped in a secretive way ...
|
|
|
Re: U.S. versus IRAN
[Re: Robotronic]
#124388
04/22/07 07:39
04/22/07 07:39
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,320
Alberta, Canada
William
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,320
Alberta, Canada
|
Well, sometimes it's best to deal with crazy people before they do something stupid. I think the world should have learned it's lesson with Hitler. This looks like it's an conversion where some think Iran's leader is a bit crazy and doesn't need nukes, and another side who support him, and don't mind him or want him having nukes. It also seems like the latter half denies that Iran or it's populace have any problem with the Jewish peoples occupying Israel. Unfortunately, this isn't the way things work. As well, basing Iran's capabilities and intentions to attack off of it's History is a bit foolish, things can change very quickly depending on who's in charge and what is happening globally. Don't let your hate of the Republicans, Bush, Jewish peoples, or America get in the way of proper thinking here. The only reason Bush is somewhat at the forefront of addressing Iran is because he is in power; I would like the think the Democrats would have done the same if they were in power.
|
|
|
Re: U.S. versus IRAN
[Re: William]
#124389
04/22/07 13:08
04/22/07 13:08
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany
Robotronic
Senior Member
|
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany
|
Quote:
Well, sometimes it's best to deal with crazy people before they do something stupid.
So what about a preemptive strike on, let´s say, Switzerland. They haven´t done "something stupid" recently, but you never know ...
But on the other hand, there are no oil springs in Switzerland.
Quote:
I think the world should have learned it's lesson with Hitler.
Sure. And they are so simple ...
Everyone who doesn´t agree with the next "preemptive strike" must be either
a) the next Hitler.
b) be the next Chamberlain.
Quote:
This looks like it's an conversion where some think Iran's leader is a bit crazy ...
Guess you´re talking of the guy with the complicated name. Unfortunately you still did not convince me, that he is
a) Iran´s leader (see my previous post)
b) crazy.
He made some highly provocative statements. Far less provocative, than the propaganda version, but nevertheless not really helpful.
My biggest problem however is: that´s what our (western) leaders do all the time. Here´s a recent example from a US presidential candidate:
Quote:
‘Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran.’
Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) in South Carolina: “Another man — wondering if an attack on Iran is in the works — wanted to know when America is going to ’send an air mail message to Tehran.’ McCain began his answer by changing the words to a popular Beach Boys song. ‘Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran,’ he sang to the tune of Barbara Ann. … He stopped short of answering the actual question.”
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/19/bomb-bomb-bomb-bomb-bomb-iran/
Will there be the same outcry in the western media about this? Something like: Senator Mc Cain favours genocide!!! No? I also don´t think so.
Quote:
... and another side who support him, and don't mind him or want him having nukes.
There is a subtle difference between supporting someone and wanting "him having nukes" on the one hand and my humble attempt to clarify some misconceptions on the other hand.
To be clear about this: my trust in the human mind in general is very limited. I do not like to see human beings playing around with nukes and such stuff.
But before we demonize and threaten those who haven´t such toys, maybe we should be a little bit concerned about those who have?
Quote:
It also seems like the latter half denies that Iran or it's populace have any problem with the Jewish peoples occupying Israel.
Why? Because I gave some information about the background of Memri?
Because I have learned - one of the "lessons of Hitler", btw. - that
propaganda != truth
The simple answer here is, that - after decades of war - Israel is indeed not very popular in the Arab and to a large extent in the wider Muslim world.
And of course vice versa - the Arabs are not very popular in Israel.
I don´t think however, that another war will make Israel - or the US - more popular.
Apart from this I understand both positions.
It´s true, however, that I do not belong to the Christian Zionist school of thought:
Quote:
According to author Grace Halsell, Christian Zionists believe that "Every act taken by Israel is orchestrated by God, and should be condoned, supported, and even praised by the rest of us."
source
I also don´t think, that we should actively work for Armageddon.
Quote:
As well, basing Iran's capabilities and intentions to attack off of it's History is a bit foolish ...
That´s why it´s so important, that we launch a massive attack on Switzerland, because they didn´t attack someone in the past. This shows, how dangerous they are ...
Quote:
Don't let your hate of the Republicans, Bush, Jewish peoples, or America get in the way of proper thinking here.
Oops. I didn´t know, why I should hate so many people ...
a) America. I often try to convince myself, that Americans in general are better and wiser than Europeans, that they use their great power with more care and more restrictions. But unfortunately they seem to be just common human beings making all the mistakes that previous empires also made.
But I am aware, that a growing number of Americans - if not a majority - doesn´t like anymore, what´s being done in the name of America.
b) Jewish Peoples. I already admitted, that I do not belong to the Christian Zionist movement, but there´s really no reason for me to hate them. Unlike the US, they have some very good reasons to be a little bit paranoid about their neighbours.
c) It´s really great, that in America presidents can only be elected twice.
d) Republicans. Considering the above statement by Mc Cain, maybe they should spend some time in opposition, just a few years, so that the Democrats can clean up the mess.
A final and important note to all citizens of Switzerland, who might have read this:
Whenever I mentioned Switzerland in this context - I know, I shouldn´t have done this  - it was just by accident. I could have also mentioned many other countries or even some planets from outer space.
|
|
|
Re: U.S. versus IRAN
[Re: William]
#124390
04/22/07 14:30
04/22/07 14:30
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
|
Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
|
Quote:
This looks like it's an conversion where some think Iran's leader is a bit crazy and doesn't need nukes, and another side who support him, and don't mind him or want him having nukes.
There's no moral reason why ONLY the US should be allowed to have nukes. So basically the same freedom they are "fighting" for to have is what they fear others to have. That's not right, don't you think?
When looking back at the Cold War, Russia apparently never intended to fire their missiles, instead it waited for the US to make any trigger happy moves. The USA tries to be a world police kind of nation and denies other people's rights in favor of their own. If it ever does go wrong, it wouldn't surprise me if the USA is to blame.
Quote:
It also seems like the latter half denies that Iran or it's populace have any problem with the Jewish peoples occupying Israel.
No, but Iran isn't the only one having "problems" with that actually. I'm not against Jews, not at all, I am however against people occupying other people's land by force, especially when it's a people that have had such a horrible history in WWII and especially for the 'reason' the Jewish people in Israel do. Talking about 'superior races' and 'racism'... take a look at Israel. It's stupid that we are hardly allowed to say this.
Quote:
Don't let your hate of the Republicans, Bush, Jewish peoples, or America get in the way of proper thinking here. The only reason Bush is somewhat at the forefront of addressing Iran is because he is in power; I would like the think the Democrats would have done the same if they were in power.
Aah, so anyone who simply disagrees suddenly hates them all? Lol, no way, a part of me is Jewish actually... 
Quote:
I also don´t think, that we should actively work for Armageddon.
Indeed. They claim Iran is, but in reality I'm not so sure who really is.
Cheers
|
|
|
Re: U.S. versus IRAN
[Re: PHeMoX]
#124391
04/22/07 21:03
04/22/07 21:03
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
Ran Man
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
|
Quote:
I'm not against Jews, not at all, I am however against people occupying other people's land by force,
Hmmnnn, yes I agree.
The Jews are occupying too much land.
|
|
|
Re: U.S. versus IRAN
[Re: Ran Man]
#124392
04/22/07 22:45
04/22/07 22:45
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
|
Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
|
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not against Jews, not at all, I am however against people occupying other people's land by force,
Hmmnnn, yes I agree.
The Jews are occupying too much land.
Right, size does matter ...  
Then again I never said 'occupying too much land', they are however currently occupying land that isn't really theirs for taking. 'Promised land' or not, you can't kick out local people just because World War II would 'justify' such an action. That's ridiculous, especially since Muslims in Israel had nothing to do with World War II whatsoever. You can't give land if it's not yours to give either (allied forces/US), just like you can't 'receive' land that's not yours to receive(Jewish people/Israelites).
The reason why the whole conflict over there exists is quite ridiculous. You wouldn't like it either if a group of people invade your land or home and kick you out ran_man.
Cheers
|
|
|
|
