Dino/bird evolution: new evidence

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Dino/bird evolution: new evidence #123798 04/14/07 08:12 04/14/07 08:12
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 4,131 M Matt_Aufderheide OP Expert
Matt_Aufderheide OP Expert M Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 4,131	According to a new paper, scientists have actually found protein in the form of collagen in a TRex fossil. And upon analysis of these ancient proteins, they have been found to most closly resemble proteins found in the modern chicken.... Quote: The analysis shows that T-rex collagen makeup is almost identical to that of a modern chicken - this corroborates a huge body of evidence from the fossil record that demonstrates birds are descended from meat-eating dinosaurs," said Angela Milner, the associate keeper of palaeontology at the Natural History Museum in London. "So, it is very satisfying that the molecules have provided a positive test for the morphology." While not DNA, proteins have certain specific characteristics that can be used to trace ancestry like DNA, and in this case the results seems to be quite certain: birds are descendants of a specific branch of the dinosauria (as predicted by the fossil record). I'm curious as to how creationists will dispute this new evidence... the probababilty of a theory being correct is made much greater when very different strands of evidence lead to the same conclusion. Sphere Engine--the premier A6 graphics plugin.

Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: Matt_Aufderheide] #123799 04/14/07 09:43 04/14/07 09:43
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,305 Damocles Expert
Damocles Expert Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,305	Nice result that supports the decendence of birds from a branch of dinosaurs. But not a proof, as certain proteins can emerge unlinked in many animal species. There are better facts that support the link, such as properties of the skeleton. rtsmaker.com

Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: Matt_Aufderheide] #123800 04/14/07 11:06 04/14/07 11:06
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 8,177 Netherlands PHeMoX Senior Expert
PHeMoX Senior Expert Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 8,177 Netherlands	Quote: I'm curious as to how creationists will dispute this new evidence... the probababilty of a theory being correct is made much greater when very different strands of evidence lead to the same conclusion. They will ignore it, no doubt about it. Remember when they once said something a long the lines of 'yeah, but if there are intermediate species, there should have been a wale with leg-like fins', when scientists actually discovered the fossil of such species, they never talked about it again, but in doing so also completely ignored it. Damocles eventhough you are right, most creationists don't believe/understand the morphological evidence, eventhough that's indeed some of the best evidence. (especially rudimentary bones and structures imho) Cheers PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008 For more info visit: Innervision Software

Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: PHeMoX] #123801 04/14/07 11:24 04/14/07 11:24
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,245 A AlbertoT Serious User
AlbertoT Serious User A Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,245	Well I suppose that the most important evidence in favour of evolutionism, assuming that there are still serious scientists who beleive in creationism, is the genetic \ fossil \ morphological comparison All the species which are supposed to have a common origin based on the fossil and which have a similar look , have also similar DNA Even more important A few species which are nowadays morphologically very different but having a supposed common origin based on fossils , they have also similar DNA The modification of DNA caused a substantial modification just of their external look This is, in my opinion, a tremendous and probably a final evidence in favour of evolutionism

Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: AlbertoT] #123802 04/14/07 12:26 04/14/07 12:26
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 8,177 Netherlands PHeMoX Senior Expert
PHeMoX Senior Expert Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 8,177 Netherlands	Quote: assuming that there are still serious scientists who beleive in creationism Good point, since scientists who ignore evidence are off course not real scientists. No pun intended, Cheers PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008 For more info visit: Innervision Software

Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: Matt_Aufderheide] #123803 04/14/07 12:40 04/14/07 12:40
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 3,010 analysis paralysis NITRO777 Expert
NITRO777 Expert Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 3,010 analysis paralysis	Quote: And upon analysis of these ancient proteins, they have been found to most closly resemble proteins found in the modern chicken.... First of all I always have a good laugh when I think of trex devolving into chickens. The very idea is so funny. Especially when you consider the pure ferocity and killing power of the tyrasnnasaurus rex compared to the "run like hell" battle plan of the domestic chicken. Second I wonder how they found proteins in a dinosaur that was supposed to exist 225 to 160 million years ago. How was it preserved for so long? Third they also found proteins which matched a newt and a frog, are you telling me that on the trex's evolutionary path to a chicken, he evolved from a newt to a frog also? Fourth it makes no sense for a trex to evolve into a chicken. Presupposing that evolution even works outside of species, which it doesnt, but presupposing it did, what selective advantage would a trex have for becoming a small chicken? The trex already was at the top of its foodchain, it did not have selective pressure to evolve so. Fifth, the dinosaurs dissapeared rapidly, there are no links to trex de-evolution. Please show the diagram which shows all of the connections between the trex and the chicken, that would be a funny one. sixth, the chicken itself is a contradiction to selection, what possible survival benefit does a chicken have? To be eaten? What is this, survival of the yummy? Its ridiculous. Im eating an egg & cheese sandwich right now. Yay T rex! Your eat em eggs are tasty! The entire dino to bird thing is stupid. Basically they have two un-explainable facts that they need to put together: 1)There is no account of the origin of birds 2)The dino's dissappeared all at once Someone with very weak logical skills has tried to connect these two facts. If you can beleive that then they can pretty much get you to believe anything. Hello....your stupid! Heh heh heh How does it feel??

Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: NITRO777] #123804 04/14/07 13:44 04/14/07 13:44
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 702 Z zazang User
zazang User Z Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 702	Yes I'm not a creationist but TREX-> chicken is funny(I dread to even simulate that conversion in animation)..Its like saying...I have carbon or hydrogen and so does an algae..wow we are brothers ! Also,2 things :- 1).For two such widely independent species,it could even mean independent evolution of that collagen makeup. 2).why are the birds considered descendents and not meat eating creatures ?

Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: NITRO777] #123805 04/14/07 13:45 04/14/07 13:45
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 4,131 M Matt_Aufderheide OP Expert
Matt_Aufderheide OP Expert M Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 4,131	Nitro was that a serious post?... i hope not.. Sphere Engine--the premier A6 graphics plugin.

Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: NITRO777] #123806 04/14/07 13:59 04/14/07 13:59
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,245 A AlbertoT Serious User
AlbertoT Serious User A Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,245	Quote: what selective advantage would a trex have for becoming a small chicken? NITRO I do hope you are joking Even a little boy knows that the survival of the fittest must not be understood in terms of dimensions , claws and ferocity If a Trex must eat a ton meat a day to survive while a chicken is happy with some seeds then a chicken can survive in certain enviromental conditions while the trex is bound to die

Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: Matt_Aufderheide] #123807 04/14/07 13:59 04/14/07 13:59
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 3,010 analysis paralysis NITRO777 Expert
NITRO777 Expert Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 3,010 analysis paralysis	Quote: Nitro was that a serious post?... i hope not.. about 65% serious/35% joke. Why? Are you not laughing? You should be, because any supposed connection between a trex and a chicken is a JOKE. Plain and simple. And if you believe that a connection exists I have to conclude that you are having some serious neuron misfirings. Sorry. Address my points please, they are quite serious. Here is a joke though...how do you suppose trex drumstick would taste deep fried with a little mashed potatoes, bisquits and gravy?

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