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KarBOOM #384006
09/28/11 03:45 09/28/11 03:45

8 Images

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia

JibbSmart

OP
Expert

KarBOOM

EDITED for a Desura-related announcement...

KarBOOM is now available on Desura! Desura is a popular digital distribution platform with an indie focus and is closely connected to IndieDB. Previous Humble Bundles have come with Desura activation codes (along with Steam codes), so there's a lot of really good stuff on there.

Desura automatically handles patches and updates, so if you use the Desura client and get KarBOOM through Desura, you shouldn't have to manually download and install new updates.

GET KARBOOM ON DESURA.

Or, if you don't want to use Desura, DOWNLOAD 0.3.6 HERE!

Accounts are still being upgraded for free, and KarBOOM is now officially in "open alpha" -- "open" because all features are free and public, and "alpha" because it's still not feature-complete.

Apparently some netbooks that could play the last version (0.2.4) are unable to play versions 0.3.3 and up.

Features from the README:

Click to reveal..

I'll gladly take criticism and suggestions. Some things are perhaps more obviously unfinished than others, but with that in mind I'd certainly appreciate ideas and suggestions as to how you think they should look when finished.

Server down.

Last edited by JibbSmart; 01/25/12 18:10.

119 Comments

Re: KarBOOM [Re: Redeemer] #384091 09/29/11 03:35 09/29/11 03:35
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia J JibbSmart OP Expert
JibbSmart OP Expert J Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia	The level shader is more complex now, but I did intend to have lower settings options as well. I'll hopefully do that soon. Thanks for the feedback. The crash obviously shouldn't happen, so I'll see what I can find that might be behind that. Thanks for giving it a go. Server will be up tomorrow! Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!

Re: KarBOOM [Re: JibbSmart] #384111 09/29/11 13:13 09/29/11 13:13
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia J JibbSmart OP Expert
JibbSmart OP Expert J Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia	Server up. I'm not there, so I won't be able to resolve any issues for a few hours. Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!

Re: KarBOOM [Re: JibbSmart] #384123 09/29/11 14:38 09/29/11 14:38
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 379 Flevoland, 5 meters under wate... Roel Senior Member
Roel Senior Member Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 379 Flevoland, 5 meters under wate...	ummm Jibb, when you are back, can you please set up your port forwarding? It seems I can not connect to your server, although there are 3 cars(bots?). I also couldn't setup my own port. When I try 0.2.4 it says my port is succesfully opened. Last edited by Roel; 09/29/11 14:43.

Re: KarBOOM [Re: Roel] #384131 09/29/11 17:12 09/29/11 17:12
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia J JibbSmart OP Expert
JibbSmart OP Expert J Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia	Yes, they're bots. I only realised on the bus to uni that I forgot to choose the port that I forwarded (server options now let you choose any port from 2300-2399). KarBOOM no longer automatically forwards ports because the DLL was a bit hit-and-miss, and if it didn't work then players would crash on startup, even if they weren't planning on hosting. I plan to have a smaller application that comes with KarBOOM that will attempt the port-forwarding without taking the rest of KarBOOM down with it if it fails. New server is up, and hopefully I've set up the port forwarding correctly! I'll join in after lunch. Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!

Re: KarBOOM [Re: JibbSmart] #384140 09/29/11 18:31 09/29/11 18:31
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 6,861 Kiel (Germany) Superku Senior Expert
Superku Senior Expert Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 6,861 Kiel (Germany)	Unfortunately I have to say I'm disappointed. All the new features are great (except the startup window ), but the most important part of the game, the controls and thus the gameplay, needs to be improved. The delay between input and reaction simply is to big, you have to have client side movement, and as the game heavily relies on fast reaction and precise controls, I want the car to react as soon as I press a key. Don't get me wrong, you're doing great work, but just to let you know: I've lost the fun playing on your server only after 1 minute, just because of that issue. I know it's a long way from Germany to Canada and I assume you already use some kind of prediction algorithm that makes my car move before the signal comes all the way back to Germany, but any kind of delay is a gameplay killer. I know that clientside movement brings a lot of issues/ inaccuracies with collisions but let me set an example: When I play Killzone 3 (or probably any other shooter), I move my player locally and the server only checks if the movement is valid (not floating/ moving through walls/ ...). Sometimes, when the connection gets bad, my player gets moved to a previous position. Then, when I shoot an enemy and when I hit him, I see blood, even though that does not mean he takes damage (he may be covered on the server, somewhere else, I don't know). (I think it's Quake 3/ Live where you hear a subtle sound when the server confirmed a hit). Sometimes I die although I've already taken cover because on some enemy's system (f.i. from Canada) my movement is displayed with 0.25-0.5s lag. Those seem to be major issues, but everyone knows that he is playing against people from all over the world and accepts those inaccuracies without resistance. If, on the other hand, the input was noticeably delayed, I guess the game's multiplayer component would be dead on arrival. "Falls das Resultat nicht einfach nur dermassen gut aussieht, sollten Sie nochmal von vorn anfangen..." - Manual Check out my new game: Pogostuck: Rage With Your Friends

Re: KarBOOM [Re: Superku] #384142 09/29/11 18:49 09/29/11 18:49
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia J JibbSmart OP Expert
JibbSmart OP Expert J Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia	Hi Superku! Thanks for the honest and excellent feedback! Movement prediction and client side movement are a very different beast in a physics-oriented game rather than a FPS. Any FPS can effectively have all reactions instant on the client side, and the only discrepancies from a client's perspective will be that they'll take some damage when they've already gone behind cover. As you've said, this is accepted. In KarBOOM, all interaction is through regular player collisions, and a collision from a slightly different angle results in a very different trajectory for both cars involved. A small fraction of a second can mean the difference between a collision and no collision at all. I'd love to have client-side movement in KarBOOM, but consider this: RED client sees his car boost at the touch of a button, knocking GREEN off the level, and the impact with GREEN keeping RED on the level. Let's look at it again from GREEN's perspective: GREEN sees RED's approach and boosts out of the way, so that RED boosts off the level with no harm done to GREEN. Which is correct? How is it possible to compromise? I totally understand that, valid reason or not, it's not going to make it fun for players. And most players won't see the difference between a game like this and a FPS. I'd love suggestions as to how to approach this problem, because I don't want to charge for online-enabled accounts unless I can reasonably expect players will be satisfied by online play, and I agree with you that at this stage it is not satisfying. Thanks for the feedback, though And please don't think that my excuses mean it's not something I want to address. It's actually at the top of my list -- the most important thing to me right now, but I don't yet know what to do about it. If I can't get online play to be enjoyable and reasonable, I will remove it in a future version and focus on making this game marketable and enjoyable as a strictly local multiplayer experience, rather than have players pay for online play that'll only disappoint. EDIT: I've been trying to plan out a system where the outcomes of collisions are predicted to a reasonable degree, and even if the collision is a bit different on different clients, the client that owns each car determines those cars' "canon" -- for example, RED and GREEN might collide. Each client will almost certainly perceive the angles of collision differently. The green car on RED's machine will adapt to reflect its position according to GREEN's machine, and the red car on GREEN's machine will adapt to reflect its position according to RED's machine. According to each player, the other car exhibits some weird movement but at least their car doesn't. Here's the problem: A lot of what goes on in KarBOOM is less about how a collision occurs, and more about whether or not a collision occurs at all. Consider tag, weak spot, hold the flag, sapoi, and even mutator-less play where one player is in a disadvantaged position (back to the edge of the map, for example) -- one player's trying really hard not to have a collision while the other is trying to make sure a collision happens. When one client sees a collision and another doesn't, what can possibly be done? And this isn't a special case -- this is what most of the game amounts to. EDIT 2: With online functionality already there, I don't think I'll ever remove that option completely. Especially since KarBOOM could be a lot of fun over LAN, and the delay would usually be almost unnoticeable in that situation. But I may have to play it down as a feature, focusing on other aspects instead. I also may have to consider selling KarBOOM as a whole rather than having just online play paid for, since it might not be possible to get online play to be worth paying for. Last edited by JibbSmart; 09/29/11 19:15.

Re: KarBOOM [Re: JibbSmart] #384143 09/29/11 19:04 09/29/11 19:04
Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,198 Berlin, Germany L Liamissimo Serious User
Liamissimo Serious User L Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,198 Berlin, Germany	Sorry for "hijacking" but I find this highly interesting as the aspect of delay over network is a often discussed thing and I would love to see a solution for KarBoom because I love the game but I am also very curious about how to achieve this. "Ich weiss nicht genau, was Sie vorhaben, aber Sie k�nnen keine Triggerzonen durch Ihr Level kullern lassen." -JCL, 2011

Re: KarBOOM [Re: Liamissimo] #384144 09/29/11 19:20 09/29/11 19:20
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 6,861 Kiel (Germany) Superku Senior Expert
Superku Senior Expert Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 6,861 Kiel (Germany)	I think I clearly understand the problem, Jibb, but nevertheless I still suggest you should at least try client side movement. If it does not work out good/ better than the current system, drop it. To the question who's right, RED or GREEN: Both are, they both stay inside the level. Don't let the server dictate who falls of the cliff or who collides with someone else, let RED's application decide if RED boosts into oblivion. If RED sees GREEN fly off the platform, the GREEN car simply gets interpolated or set to a new valid position received from the player. The majority of your potential customers probably knows about the issues with online play, thus RED will accept that GREEN did not die as long as RED has the possibility to try it again (without input delay). EDIT: Quote: whether or not a collision occurs at all. Consider tag, weak spot, hold the flag, sapoi Those are things that the server should dictate. It's the same as shooting someone in Killzone, I may have to hit my enemy multiple times (or touch him for a longer period of time in KarBOOM) but eventually the server will tell me (and my enemy) that I've killed him. Don't worry too much right now, just give it a try! Last edited by Superku; 09/29/11 19:27.

Re: KarBOOM [Re: Superku] #384145 09/29/11 19:29 09/29/11 19:29
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia J JibbSmart OP Expert
JibbSmart OP Expert J Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia	Quote: Don't worry too much right now, just give it a try! I guess you're right, that's the best way to approach things For the first online version I attempted client-side movement and it failed miserably. But I'm sure I can try some new stuff here. Thanks for the motivating words and suggestions! EDIT: Btw, server down. Last edited by JibbSmart; 09/29/11 19:29.

Re: KarBOOM [Re: Superku] #384147 09/29/11 19:54 09/29/11 19:54
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,771 Bay City, MI lostclimate Expert
lostclimate Expert Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,771 Bay City, MI	Originally Posted By: Superku I see blood, even though that does not mean he takes damage (he may be covered on the server, somewhere else, I don't know). (I think it's Quake 3/ Live where you hear a subtle sound when the server confirmed a hit). Sometimes I die although I've already taken cover because on some enemy's system (f.i. from Canada) my movement is displayed with 0.25-0.5s lag. Those seem to be major issues, but everyone knows that he is playing against people from all over the world and accepts those inaccuracies without resistance. lol no they dont. i get really effin pissed off when i know something shoulda been a kill or that i shoulda been hidden and i still die. I've nearly broken several controllers over it

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