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Re: physics question
[Re: Xarthor]
#258868
04/02/09 16:03
04/02/09 16:03
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010 analysis paralysis
NITRO777
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Thanks Xarthor,
"cannot reach light speed" seems more likely than "reaches infinite mass" so I guess I would agree. I am still sort of confused why a particle couldn't reach light speed, it seems that anything could reach light speed if it gets enough force. The fact that it is at rest or not at rest just seems to alter the amount of force needed. Do you know what I mean?
Also from a limits perspective, limit of mass, as velocity approaches light is infinity. So thats where I came up with the idea of infinite mass.
Last edited by TriNitroToluene; 04/02/09 16:06.
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Re: physics question
[Re: Lukas]
#258918
04/02/09 20:46
04/02/09 20:46
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NITRO777
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The heavier it gets, the more energy you need to make it faster. So, if you want to make mass reach speed of light, you need an infinite energy. ahh yes, thats the key which helps me understand it and it makes sense: mass can never reach an infinite size because it would need an infinite force. AFAIK sometimes you can say 1/0 = infinite Well you can do it in certain aspects of math, like when looking at graphs of things, and for finding limits. I don't know how they make compilers or the real technical reasons behind why you cannot divide by zero. Is anything even being attempted? In other words, say I write some code which divides 5 by zero, does the computer even attempt it?
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Re: physics question
[Re: NITRO777]
#258925
04/02/09 22:22
04/02/09 22:22
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Posts: 1,143 United Kingdom
DJBMASTER
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If 20 / 2 is 10, you can safely say that "2 * 10 = 20".
Now you say 20 / 0 = X. Therefore 0 * X = 20. What value of X will satisfy this statement.
None as 0 times anything = 0. Therefore X cannot exist. Dividing by zero does not exist or mathematically undefined.
Another practical example is thinking that division is basically just a set of subtraction operations. Eg, 20 / 10 means start with 20, then subtract 2, and again, again until you reach 0. How many operations did it take? >> 10.
Now think about 20 / 0. Start with 20, then subtract 0, and again, and again. You now see why some people refer to dividing by 0 as infinity.
Not sure how a compiler goes about dealing with divisions by 0. BTW what is a compilers take on roots of negative numbers? In maths we can define imaginary numbers this way easily, but how would you in a programming language?
Last edited by DJBMASTER; 04/02/09 22:31.
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Re: physics question
[Re: Lukas]
#259315
04/05/09 12:42
04/05/09 12:42
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177 Netherlands
PHeMoX
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Yep, theoretically, if mass could reach speed of light, its mass would become infinite. Well, if it could.
The reason why mass never can reach speed of light is that its mass is increasing if it becomes faster. The heavier it gets, the more energy you need to make it faster. So, if you want to make mass reach speed of light, you need an infinite energy. From what I understand light speed is not exactly synonimous to 'infinitely fast', so travelling at light speed (or faster) should in fact be possible even in theory. Obviously it would cost a tremendous amount of energy making it questionable if even trying to reach such speeds makes sense (with current day propulsion). Perhaps in a practical sense it's even impossible to a. carry enough energy/fuel onboard needed to reach those kinds of speeds and b. have a space ship strong enough to withstand forces involved and carry the entire mass (energy today isn't exactly mass free). Perhaps travelling at such speeds is as problematic as conquering supersonic speeds in the old days (e.g. bending/deforming metal at highest speeds, old propulsion systems aren't able to reach supersonic speed and so on). Don't forget a lot of the 'we can't do that' kind of thinking only makes sense with current day propulsions in mind. If 20 / 2 is 10, you can safely say that "2 * 10 = 20".
Now you say 20 / 0 = X. Therefore 0 * X = 20. What value of X will satisfy this statement.
None as 0 times anything = 0. Therefore X cannot exist. Dividing by zero does not exist or mathematically undefined. True, but it remains a somewhat philosophical question whether it makes sense to agree upon the 'fact' that 0 times anything is 0. By the time science has discovered that nothing can produce something, the whole mathematical idea becomes a bit untrue, wouldn't you agree? Cheers
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