Hilbert's Hotel

Diskussionsforum zur Unendlichkeit: Theismus, Atheismus, Primzahlen, Unsterblichkeit, das Universum...
Discussing Infinity: theism and atheism, prime numbers, immortality, cosmology, philosophy...

Gamestudio Links
Zorro Links
Newest Posts
Change chart colours
by 7th_zorro. 05/11/24 09:25
Data from CSV not parsed correctly
by dr_panther. 05/06/24 18:50
AUM Magazine
Latest Screens
The Bible Game
A psychological thriller game
SHADOW (2014)
DEAD TASTE
Who's Online Now
2 registered members (AndrewAMD, degenerate_762), 1,309 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Hanky27, firatv, wandaluciaia, Mega_Rod, EternallyCurious
19051 Registered Users
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: The Sun still shines. [Re: Robotronic] #244087
01/02/09 15:29
01/02/09 15:29
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 197
sebcrea Offline
Member
sebcrea  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 197
If the earth is hell for you why don't you just kill yourself or keep you religious nonsense to yourself. Can you please do something useful like a game about "Why religion is stupid ?" or How to not use your brain when it comes to religion. It seems all those guys who are unable to create games here want to be the messiah or talk about there stupid believes. Doctor could you please take care of this guys, he's hallucinating.

You should place logoc and reason in the place of god. maybe that would help.

Re: The Sun still shines. [Re: Robotronic] #244091
01/02/09 15:44
01/02/09 15:44
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777 Offline
Expert
NITRO777  Offline
Expert

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
Quote:
I am sorry for the long messages
Doesn't bother me, just a few extra bytes of server space wink

Re: The Sun still shines. [Re: sebcrea] #244100
01/02/09 17:37
01/02/09 17:37
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany
R
Robotronic Offline OP
Senior Member
Robotronic  Offline OP
Senior Member
R

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany
@ sebcrea

You do not have to read something, that you can´t or don´t want to understand or something that is disturbing for you.

Many people feel very happy in the here and now. Many people want to focus their minds on this or that area and are frightened by the things, that they can´t understand.


Imam Ali (pbuh) once said:

People often hate those things which they do not know or cannot understand.


I have great respect for the decision, not to read this.

You are also not forced to go into a gallery and enjoy modern art. Nobody puts pressure on you, to read difficult books or look at the dark side of human possibilities.

My message will be bitter-sweet and difficult to understand. It is maybe written for older people, who are interested in the concept of "religious realism".

For me religion is real.

It will be about the dimension of time in religion, the divine paradox, the importance of love, the question of responsibility, when it comes to man-made catastrophes, a better understanding of religious traditions, greater harmony between the human desire for worldly pleasures on the one hand and the absolute truth of the almighty God on the other hand, the meaning of the word sacrifice and much more.

Some people say: Worship the monkey inside you!
Other people say: Let´s be like the robots!

But the choosen ambassador of God wants the human beings to re-discover the great universe, which is hidden inside them and be human beings again!

Re: The Sun still shines. [Re: Robotronic] #244122
01/02/09 19:17
01/02/09 19:17
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 197
sebcrea Offline
Member
sebcrea  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 197
The only disturbing thing seems to be your desire to open a thread to share your religious hallucinations. Yeah it is real for you and thats all, it is not real for anybody else. I mean you open a thread and present yourself as the messiah with a godly assignment and you really think that this should be taken seriously?

Whats next a youtube video, where you will explain to us that some people have to be killed because god told you so ?

Re: The Sun still shines. [Re: sebcrea] #246656
01/16/09 08:09
01/16/09 08:09
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
Senior Expert
Machinery_Frank  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Any news on this "prophecy"?


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: The Sun still shines. [Re: Machinery_Frank] #246905
01/17/09 21:15
01/17/09 21:15
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany
R
Robotronic Offline OP
Senior Member
Robotronic  Offline OP
Senior Member
R

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany
Well, I have not forgotten this thread, but I do not want to confuse people more then necessary ...

One of the more important reason for this thread is not my deep desire to present myself as a prophet or the Messiah, but the simple and eventually selfish thing about the prophetic duty:


3:16 At the end of seven days the word of the Lord came to me:
3:17 “Son of man, I have appointed you a watchman for the house of Israel. Whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you must give them a warning from me.
3:18 When I say to the wicked, “You will certainly die,” and you do not warn him – you do not speak out to warn the wicked to turn from his wicked deed and wicked lifestyle so that he may live – that wicked person will die for his iniquity, but I will hold you accountable for his death.

(Ezekiel)


God has always been very friendly with me, I can not complain about Him, He allowed me, to run away from Him etc.

But I also know, that He did not reveal a message to me for fun and entertainment.

I was a very secular person for three quarters of my life. I was interested in all kinds of things, except for God and religion and I can really imagine the positions of atheists and people, who do not believe in God.

15 years ago, if someone would have confronted me with the claim "I am God´s choosen ambassador etc.", I would have probably reacted exactly like the first posters, so I am not disappointed or even angry.

At the moment, people can say: "Robotronic is crazy", and forget about this thread.

And for me this is also practical, because I can say to myself: "I told the human beings, that the end is near etc., I did my prophetic duty, I even sacrificed a lot of my very important time - but they did not want to listen, as usual, it has always been like this, there is once again nothing new under the sun."


Maybe this is the perfect compromise?


Many people here do not wait eleven years, before they make statements about God, which might hurt or confuse others.

But I will eventually post additional information for people, who are interested in a different way of being religious, which is called "religious realism".

This is probably more interesting for older people and people, who want to understand their religion and who want to act in responsible ways - in harmony with the living God.

Religious messages are not like program code for robots, and many "contradictions" are in reality part of the presentation of a multidimensional paradox, which was not always understood in perfect ways.

I take into account not only religious traditions, but also at least the major events and developments in human history, philosophy, psychology and of cause my own experiences. All of this doesn´t make it more easy for me, to communicate.

The goal is in "heaven", not below the surface of the earth, so it is important, that people become aware of the direction of heaven again.

I have respect for people, who like the mysterious qualities of religion, who do not want to know all the details and eventual limitations of prophetic experiences and religious doctrines and such stuff. But my own faith became very strong, because I removed "blind spots" and because I do not know of any inner contradictions.

In this time many people search for absolute certainties. They can also find them in an institutionalized "in the middle" position. They can find them in ignorance, in scientific theories or in the more or less dogmatic positions of religious "traditionalists".

I call them traditionalists and not fundamentalists, because the fundament of religion are not quotes from Holy Books.

Abraham did not learn from Holy Books.

The fundament of religion is the prophetic experience.

Re: The Sun still shines. [Re: Robotronic] #246954
01/18/09 01:23
01/18/09 01:23
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,305
New York
PrenceOfDarkness Offline
Serious User
PrenceOfDarkness  Offline
Serious User

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,305
New York
please commit suicide.

cheers


"There is no problem that can't be solved with time and determination." -me
prenceofdarkness for instant messages on AIM.

Looking for a model designer
PLEASE, SEND ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE OR EMAIL IF YOU'RE INTERESTED.
Re: The Sun still shines. [Re: PrenceOfDarkness] #246959
01/18/09 03:51
01/18/09 03:51
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 624
DEEP 13
badapple Offline
User
badapple  Offline
User

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 624
DEEP 13
i believe the profit should consult a shrink and fast. sick

Re: The Sun still shines. [Re: Robotronic] #246994
01/18/09 13:09
01/18/09 13:09
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777 Offline
Expert
NITRO777  Offline
Expert

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
Quote:

Religious messages are not like program code for robots, and many "contradictions" are in reality part of the presentation of a multidimensional paradox, which was not always understood in perfect ways.
Interesting, I agree.

Quote:

The fundament of religion is the prophetic experience.

Not really. The prophetic element of any religion must align itself to that religion's holy book. Otherwise you can have everyone coming up with a private subjective prophecy.

Quote:

Abraham did not learn from Holy Books
Yes but he had a passed down verbal tradition.

Re: The Sun still shines. [Re: NITRO777] #247289
01/19/09 21:42
01/19/09 21:42
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany
R
Robotronic Offline OP
Senior Member
Robotronic  Offline OP
Senior Member
R

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany

Quote:
Not really. The prophetic element of any religion must align itself to that religion's holy book. Otherwise you can have everyone coming up with a private subjective prophecy.



The fundament of the authority of the true prophet comes from God, from the Holy Spirit, from the unique prophetic experience. This is of cause something subjective and there is always the possibility, that the prophet was misled by an unholy spirit. It is possible, that a "prophet" had a strong emotion and confuses this strong emotion with the Holy Spirit.

Complete fools might also pretend to be prophets. Every reasonable person, especially in our time, would follow the example of Jonah and try to escape from this job, but fools with little knowledge might believe, that it is a great pleasure.

There are good reasons for scepticism and it is a good idea, to compare the new revelation with the older traditions.

When it comes to traditions it depends, what you mean with "align itself".

All the true prophets were in greatest possible harmony with previous traditions and for me the four Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Bahá'í Faith) are in many ways like one religion. So I take into account all these traditions.

The greater prophets (which are called messengers in Islam) were always taking into account all the previous traditions with greatest respect.

When Jesus Christ for example decided, to help and heal other people on the Sabbath (Matthews 12:1 - 14), he made a conscious, free decision, which was certainly not easy for him, because it was at odds with the very concrete text of the law:


23:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 23:2 “Speak to the Israelites and tell them, ‘These are the Lord’s appointed times which you must proclaim as holy assemblies – my appointed times:

23:3 “‘Six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there must be a Sabbath of complete rest, a holy assembly. You must not do any work; it is a Sabbath to the Lord in all the places where you live.


Because of his unorthodox attitude most Jews rejected Jesus Christ and many Jews are doing this until today.

But for me - when Jesus changed the law - it made sense.

Religious traditions confront you with a range of attitudes, which can be orthodox, law-based and reductionist or based on a wider, more holistic, prophetic understanding.

The four Abrahamic revelations are oscillating between these positions:

Orthodox Judaism and Islam are more law-based, Christianity and the Bahá'í Faith are more messianic and give more freedom.

There are of cause different interpretations also within the faith systems.

If something is in contradiction with a tradition or a particular quote from the Bible or the Qur´an, this does nor necessarily mean, that it is wrong. In fact all the messengers changed something.

I believe, that people should look at the concrete example or the concrete message and not at the eventual claims of the messenger and make a free decision.They should take into account the previous traditions and sometimes common sense is also not so bad.

If you have a wider understanding of the revelations (beyond the limitations of one particular religion) the direction becomes more and more obvious.

The love and the truth of God were always expanded. Religious tolerance for example became always greater, never smaller.

Apart from this there are very old prophetic revelations about the Messianic age, which speak about great harmony in diversity. In Isaiah 11 there is this great metaphor about very different animals, which can nevertheless live together in harmony, because they accept the authority of the same God.

In this time there can be the situation, that an atheist is closer to the living God in some important areas in comparison to someone, who is very religious.

The meaning of the word God is important, not the label.

In hindsight I know for example, that I was searching for God for all my life, long before I was conscious about this - simply because I had a passion for truth and love. Words, such as meaning or authenticity can be important also for artists. I wanted to make movies.

If someone would have asked me 1 day before this experience in January 1998, what I think about God, I would have answered, that I do not care for God.



For me all of this is part of the human freedom of choice and if you look back, unfortunately people often missed the true prophets (who told them also things, that they didn´t want to hear) but they were fascinated by the false prophets (who wanted to be popular and told the people, what they wanted to hear).

Many people believe, that Gods prophets must confirm exactly their expectations and traditions.

A very interesting book in this context is the Kitáb-i-Iqán by Bahá'u'lláh, the last great messenger and the founding father of the smallest, but most universal Abrahamic religion, the Bahá'í Faith, which came up in the 19th century as the messianic fulfillment of Islam.

There is an English translation somewhere on the internet, and I can really recommend this, because it gives you a very serious, prophetic perspective on this pattern.

But I will mention this probably later in the thread anyway.

The message must be in the line with previous traditions, which can also mean an extension or clarification of previous positions.

Some positions may become obsolete, other parts will be highlighted. This does not mean, that all the previous positions were bad.

For me the passage from the Old Testament for example, when Moses explains to the people in very dramatic language, that they have the choice between life and death, blessing and curse, good and evil is extremely important.

This means: I would not have understood my own fundamental experience without this text from the Old Testament.

I love all the Abrahamic religions. All of them have central parts, which are essential for me.

So my attitude can be very different, depending on the concrete, particular text.

Especially the Old Testament describes for me the paradox between very human (and sometimes narcissistic) positions and the growing awareness of the intentions of the almighty God, the creator of everything. This is for me a very fascinating thing.

A prophet like Jeremiah for example was in a terrible situation, the people hated and punished him, because they didn´t like his message. There is always the (human) temptation, to call for God, that He simply punishes the enemies.

But then there is also the prophetic knowledge, that the others are worldly-minded, prisoners of their human opinions and instincts, they do not really know, what they are doing.

The book of Jeremiah reflects all of this and it is still possible to reach a very good understanding with the old Jewish traditions.

A bad preacher however might pick and choose the more worldly passages and simply declare:

"This is the eternal will of God! It´s written in the Holy Book! Go out and destroy your enemies once and for all!"

The New Testament settles many issues and gives a direction (towards heaven).



A few notes about Abraham:


The Book of Joshua reports that Abrahams father Terah worshiped other gods. (Josh. 24:2.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terah


Unfortunately I do not know very much about the society, where Abraham was growing up, but the tradition about his father tells me, that the monotheistic tradition was not very strong in his time and society.

In the Old Testament Abraham appears after the episode with the tower of Babel, where God did something very unusual: He created confusion and diversity.

Usually religion is about the creation of unity.

I believe, that God - after the episode with the tower of Babel - created something like a fresh start with Abraham.

I made this experience, that a human being can find God without any concrete or conscious intentions. I believe, that Abraham found God in a similar way.

But of cause that´s just an assumption.

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  jcl, Lukas, old_bill, Spirit 

Kompaktes W�rterbuch des UnendlichenCompact Dictionary of the Infinite


Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1