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Re: A little door.
[Re: Robotronic]
#132007
05/28/07 17:52
05/28/07 17:52
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,205
Greece
LarryLaffer
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,205
Greece
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too long, didn't read I'm so sorry man. If you were writting a book, I may had tried to get into your point of view so I could understand your metaphors, but I usually have a much less attention span on the forums. That's why I asked you to just 'cut to the chase' a few posts ago. I liked that one though: Quote:
For me it is almost a surprise, that people, who work with virtual reality and such stuff have so much trouble with the basics ...
and that..
Quote:
Most people underestimate the possibilities of the human mind
Phemox,
Quote:
It seems I'm the only one on this planet not having problems with the fact that our knowledge will be limited forever, we will never know everything, big deal... I'm not saying we should therefore not try to figure out the answers to a lot of these questions we have off course.
Let's also agree on that one and call it a day..
and with that, i'm outie.. I'll let Robotronic reveal to us the rest of the keys. It's his post anyway
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Re: A little door.
[Re: LarryLaffer]
#132008
05/28/07 20:15
05/28/07 20:15
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
Irish_Farmer
User
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User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
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I'm confused. Is this guy a gnostic, or what?
"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."
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Re: A little door.
[Re: Irish_Farmer]
#132009
05/28/07 22:06
05/28/07 22:06
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
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Quote:
Life´s but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more; it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
I think its a good observation. At least it seems to describe life without Christ....
I think your making a pretty good overall statement about things in the world,I always like it when someone has a completely original perspective, however, I feel bad for you because your outlook looks a little bleak . But maybe it gets happier  with the next few keys.
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Re: A little door.
[Re: Robotronic]
#132010
05/28/07 22:46
05/28/07 22:46
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
The oracle says: NO. The whole procedure here is like this: find the living God for you.
Well, I've decided to go by different procedures I guess. Apart from that, if anything ever would come close to your analogy it would be that 'my' God is 'life or living' itself. Life is what we make of it and the possibilities are near infinite. Tell me, hehehe, what else would you want???
Quote:
But I think, that you might need more imagination. For me it is almost a surprise, that people, who work with virtual reality and such stuff have so much trouble with the basics ...
What exactly do you mean? My imagination is pretty good, I can imagine a lot. I can not imagine reality though, because it's already there, not much imagination needed to understand that, not more imagination needed to 'expand' it either.
Isn't virtual reality's sole purpose to escape reality? It's not healthy to keep floating in reality if you understand what I'm saying.
Quote:
Reality != Truth
No, reality IS the truth, how much we understand reality itself is something different.
Quote:
A mythos, a fable can be more true, than 1000 pages of selected "hard facts" ...
And what is just "normal" reality in a particular time and space, can be a huge crime a few years later - think of fascism for example ...
Not following you here. First, how can a myth be more true than facts, second fascism isn't based upon truth or facts, but a made up ideology e.a. imagination. See, it's actually dangerous to 'imagine' in real life, especially when people start to believe it's TRUE instead of just imagination. 
Cheers
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Re: A little door.
[Re: PHeMoX]
#132011
05/28/07 23:41
05/28/07 23:41
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,205
Greece
LarryLaffer
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,205
Greece
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Quote:
But I think, that you might need more imagination. For me it is almost a surprise, that people, who work with virtual reality and such stuff have so much trouble with the basics ...
Quote:
What exactly do you mean? My imagination is pretty good, I can imagine a lot. I can not imagine reality though, because it's already there, not much imagination needed to understand that, not more imagination needed to 'expand' it either.
I think he is saying that since we get to create virtual worlds ourselves, it is easier for us to see how our own world could be created and represented the same way.
Think Matrix and Thirteen floor . Not that we're necessarily created by programmers, but it has given me lot too think about, when i was creating my own 'life' inside my own world, in doing Vain (an rpg); And wondering how easy it would be for my Npcs to become aware of their world, if they had the same intelligence as I do. And if it would be possible for them(the npcs) to realise my own world
or maybe, that's just what i'm saying 
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Re: A little door.
[Re: PHeMoX]
#132012
05/29/07 00:36
05/29/07 00:36
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
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Quote:
No, reality IS the truth, how much we understand reality itself is something different.
I disagree, that is only your opinion, you have no idea what exists beyond reality because the only way to see beyond reality is with the eyes of faith, faith is the "sixth sense" which people talk so much about.
Reality is the entire domain of things which can be observed with the natural eye. Truth also contains all of reality's domain, but it contain more, which can only be seen with "inner eye".
Spiritual people can see all the things in reality just like you, but they can also see the truth.
Another thing is that truth is a superior knowledge than reality, it is superior because truth DETERMINES reality, not vice versa.
When you see reality, you are seeing the (effects) of the CAUSE, therefore the cause is superior.
I can see the reality of this physical world just as well as anyone else, I have a brain and a good perspective...but I also do not reject things which are beyond reality.
So I guess the point IM trying to make would be a subtle one that is: reality is not replaced by truth, but it is appended to truth, and it is the effect of truth.
And to further boil things down Jesus said in John 14:6 "...I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life." So Jesus actually IS the TRuth.
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Re: A little door.
[Re: NITRO777]
#132013
05/29/07 00:41
05/29/07 00:41
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
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Quote:
Think Matrix and Thirteen floor . Not that we're necessarily created by programmers, but it has given me lot too think about, when i was creating my own 'life' inside my own world, in doing Vain (an rpg); And wondering how easy it would be for my Npcs to become aware of their world, if they had the same intelligence as I do. And if it would be possible for them(the npcs) to realise my own world
Yep ai is very cool, I wish I knew more about it, I was always intrigued with the idea of an ai which resembled a living being. Of course, from the programmers I have talked to it seems that real ai is just simply not possible in the present day, not even possible to similate the functions of a worm's neurological system, which puts robots and real ai in the far distant future.
Quote:
I think he is saying that since we get to create virtual worlds ourselves, it is easier for us to see how our own world could be created and represented the same way.
Thats also one of the things that always attracted me to game programming. The whole aspect of a virtual world was always more interesting to me than to simply make a game. I never wanted to make games, I wanted to make worlds. (And I still do, but its turning out to be a near impossible feat as we all know)
Last edited by NITRO777; 05/29/07 00:45.
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Re: A little door.
[Re: NITRO777]
#132014
05/29/07 08:03
05/29/07 08:03
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
Thats also one of the things that always attracted me to game programming. The whole aspect of a virtual world was always more interesting to me than to simply make a game. I never wanted to make games, I wanted to make worlds.
Yes, it's very cool to design your own world. At the moment I'm trying to focus on making a good gameplay element, but just moving around in and creating and expanding this virtual reality world is so much more fun.  Lol, I hope I will finish this game so I can sell it, but basically I'm getting a lot out of it already in terms of joy which is worth even more actually.
Quote:
Reality is the entire domain of things which can be observed with the natural eye. Truth also contains all of reality's domain, but it contain more, which can only be seen with "inner eye".
Actually, that's only your opinion. Besides, let's assume for a second you are right, then I must be blind with these inner eyes. Since I only go (and can go) with what I know and cán see, that's not part of my perception of reality. It may be actually part of 'reality' as you claim, but up to now I haven't experienced it.
That's what I meant with how much we understand reality itself is something different. I'm not saying "what we see is all that's out there", so I agree with your point basically.
Quote:
Spiritual people can see all the things in reality just like you, but they can also see the truth.
It's again the same old argument "you can't see it so you don't see it, but rest assured it's there". I'm a spiritual person too, actually, I just happen to belief in different things.
Quote:
And to further boil things down Jesus said in John 14:6 "...I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life." So Jesus actually IS the TRuth.
"The Bible said that Jesus said that ..."  , whether or not it's actually true and thus whether or not Jesus is the Truth is open for discussion. Buddha claimed to be the Truth and to know the Way too, according to his followers. Lol, even Mao Tse-Tung said so, doesn't make it true nor Truth,
Quote:
Another thing is that truth is a superior knowledge than reality, it is superior because truth DETERMINES reality, not vice versa.
Mmmm, I tend to disagree, because our knowledge determines how much we know of the reality surrounding us and determines our perception of the truth. I don't think our reality changes because of our comprehension of truths. It's like that saying "people don't change, you just get to know them better". It's my opinion off course, but I think it would be the same with reality and truth,
(by the way, according to you reality and truth are 2 different things, right? How come? Aren't reality and truth bound to eachother and partly just the same thing? )
Cheers
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Re: A little door.
[Re: jcl]
#132016
05/29/07 12:48
05/29/07 12:48
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,815
Finland
Inestical
Rabbit Developer
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Rabbit Developer
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,815
Finland
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Phemox: for the phrase I told, it means we need memories to understand ourselves. Without a memory, you don't know yourself nor can seek for more, since you don't have the will to search, without memories. Memories are created by the flow of time. A second ago you thought this now you think that, you have memory of that thought or memorial vision of subject A.
By memories we create experience. By experience we move on.
Without past we won't have a future.
"Reality != Truth"
Reality is the packet of your 5 senses. Our sixth sense, or soul, or "inner eye" or whatever is our own truth as an addition. So we never can see the truth by using reality.
"Yesterday was once today's tomorrow."
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