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Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: AlbertoT] #123828
04/15/07 09:02
04/15/07 09:02
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,441
ventilator Offline
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ventilator  Offline
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Quote:

Apart from that , nobody claimed that chicken come from trex


exactly! i didn't read the whole thread and only a short german news article about the topic but it was about dinosaurs being the ancestors of birds and not trex being the ancestor of chicken.

Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: ventilator] #123829
04/15/07 09:55
04/15/07 09:55
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Matt_Aufderheide Offline OP
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Matt_Aufderheide  Offline OP
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Yes, certainly T. Rex is not the direct grandpa of a chicken. All this evidence shows is that there is a probable relationship between therapoda, part of the dinosaur clade that includes the mostly carnivorous, bipedal dinosaurs--like T. Rex, Compsognathus, etc--and Aves (all modern birds).

While T Rex was a giant, size has very little to do with evolutionary relationships. The little kittycat that may live in your house is related to the giant Siberian tiger, and even the monsterous Sabertooth cat.

Compsognathus, a therapod dinosaur related to T. Rex, was rather small, in fact about the size of a chicken.

The T. Rex protein was used in this comparison becasue its the only example of dinosaur proteins currently known to have survived to our time (the proteins were found in a mass of collagen found in a T. Rex fossil bone. As unlikely as it seems, there it was. You have to accept it or assume the scientists in this case are lying).

Obviously T. Rex is not the closest ancestor to chickens; in fact it's very distant. However the likelihood of identical proteins occuring in totally unrelated organisms is very low, as there an enormous number of possible proteins. Also, considering the many morphological similarities between therapods and modern birds, the chances of the relationship being coincidence go down dramatically--making the evidence very strong.


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Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: Matt_Aufderheide] #123830
04/16/07 03:50
04/16/07 03:50
Joined: Feb 2004
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Wisconsin
Irish_Farmer Offline
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Quote:

However the likelihood of identical proteins occuring in totally unrelated organisms is very low




Indeed, which explains why these proteins are barely more than half alike.


"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."
Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: Irish_Farmer] #123831
04/16/07 04:33
04/16/07 04:33
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,815
Finland
Inestical Offline
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I did read about this in an science magazine. Though it just told about the collagen and that it is being under heavy examination/analysis.

This is something new. But it just shows the power of evolution. So much has happened since that meteor made it's first headshot.


"Yesterday was once today's tomorrow."
Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: Irish_Farmer] #123832
04/16/07 07:08
04/16/07 07:08
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Matt_Aufderheide Offline OP
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Quote:

Indeed, which explains why these proteins are barely more than half alike.




Where did it say that?

in any case the study found that the protein sequences were most similar to modern chickens, not that they were exactly the same. However, this result strengthens the aleady strong case of dinosaur->bird evolution, previously infered by other means..

it seems that every new piece of evidence is treated with contempt by creationists; being incapable of looking at data objectively, they are merely hacks who distort or dismiss evidence they dont like.


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Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: Damocles] #123833
04/16/07 07:54
04/16/07 07:54
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,011
South Africa
capanno Offline
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matt, you dont understand your own theory. Evolution does not predict or require comparative anatomy or genetic similarity.

Quote:

By a creationist approach, one could say
"oh, how rediculus that the "yorkshire terrier" is a decentent of the wulf,
such a small dog, this is rediculus"




You dont seem to know how genetics work. Wolves and dogs are the same kind of animal.

When God created them, he told the to bring forth after their kind, not species. Animals were made with a big gene pool, so they will be able to adapt wherever they go. This is devolution, the loss of information. When an animal adapts to a certain environment, it might seem like its evolving, but its doing the opposite.

Birds and reptiles have very different designs. Im not even going to start with a list.

Comparative anatomy is not evidence for a common ancestor, but a common designer.

Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: capanno] #123834
04/16/07 10:42
04/16/07 10:42
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
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PHeMoX  Offline
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Quote:

Comparative anatomy is not evidence for a common ancestor, but a common designer.




No, not at all, evidence for a designer would be finding his tools or something, but not finding a comparative anatomy. Evolution isn't random, but there's no 'design' either, unless 'adaptation through natural selection' can be considered 'design'. But that's designs without a designer, and that's not 'designing'.

Quote:

Wolves and dogs are the same kind of animal.




'Family' and 'species' are not the same thing... The dog family, Canidae, is a diverse group of 34 species ranging in size and proportion from squat, dachshund-like bushdogs to the long-legged maned wolf...

http://www.kc.net/~wolf2dog/wayne2.htm

Cheers


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Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: capanno] #123835
04/16/07 14:15
04/16/07 14:15
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Matt_Aufderheide Offline OP
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Matt_Aufderheide  Offline OP
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Quote:

matt, you dont understand your own theory. Evolution does not predict or require comparative anatomy or genetic similarity.




of course it does...

Quote:

Birds and reptiles have very different designs




Different in some ways, but similar in others.. in fact it's the similarities that are important, if they can be shown to be "derived characteristics".


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Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: Matt_Aufderheide] #123836
04/17/07 18:12
04/17/07 18:12
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
Irish_Farmer Offline
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Quote:

it seems that every new piece of evidence is treated with contempt by creationists; being incapable of looking at data objectively, they are merely hacks who distort or dismiss evidence they dont like.




Likewise, it seems like evolutionists like to overexaggerate basically irrelevant data such as this for the reasons you listed.


"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."
Re: Dino/bird evolution: new evidence [Re: Irish_Farmer] #123837
04/17/07 18:17
04/17/07 18:17
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
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PHeMoX  Offline
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Quote:

Likewise, it seems like evolutionists like to overexaggerate basically irrelevant data such as this for the reasons you listed.




It's not even possible to be more ignorant than this Irish ... geesh .. talking about h o p e l e s s. What ever happened to your way of replying with arguments anyways?

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
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