image format

Why not implement a psd, photoshop image format, as a possible way to show panels, this way all the layers tranparencies would work much better, and other effects would be easier to do. readingg psd format would be great, is this on the forecast in the future?

asked same for .png files..

^^

sorry, but that just sounds very stupid.

i must agree, michael, this indeed sounds very unnecessary.

xD

Well it would make it nicer since you don't have to take care of the alpha channel manually (transparency is taken from the layer settings)), but then again creating the alpha channel manually is not really that much of a problem.

same with png..

I´m working on a rpg-maker in 3d. I can´t say to the users "Just make a TGA und create a alpha channel..and..and.." many users don´t know how to use that..

If you have an idea, how to read ong, and use it´s auto-transparency, it would be better to use for inexperienced to use the rpg-maker.

i don´t think that´s stupid.. I think that´s user-friendly.

you should find all necessary information about .png on http://www.wotsit.org

Then you can implement the functionality for the users of your RPG maker. Hey, don't complain - you WANTED to program after all

o.O ok.. I´m not a pro programmer.. so i need to know how to implement the functions

ok its your opinioon, but its not stupid or anything.

Its not because of the alpha channel of course!! im not stupid, its because of the glow effects, bevel effects and everything that gives the layers effects to read them... same for shadow effect,it would simplify alot some effects, and im saying this because im working and i know what work you have to wast just to use glow effects with alpha channel.

All photoshop effects will still be there when you save the image to TGA or DDS.

I don't think that we need a PSD Viewer in Gamestudio.

not quite real..

try to add a circle and then a red glow layer effect, then save that image as TGA with alpha map, and a red glow will mix with the background (usually turned white when exporting the TGA) and the final effect wont be the red but a mix with red and white. same for shadows.

I can explain better if you want:


on the picture above, i created some circles, one with a black color for the background color, and then transparent and then red, and added to the circles the same glow effects.

after exporting to TGA, and importing the picture to game studio, this is the result:


As you can see the A is almost what we want because we used blackcolor , but B is the perfect one, because we used a red color background, that matches the glow color we used, and the color is just there, and the alpha map do the glow transparency effect.

the other methods^(using tranparent layer) and using blacklayer turned to be imperfect.
Note that the transparent layer, mixed the red glow with some white as you can see on the picture! thats why a psd reader would be useful, but you guys keep saying no. its ok, just more work on photoshop and everythime we want to use layer we need to paint the background acoording the the color we want to glow -.-

I think its a little over-kill...

In the psd format is ALL the information required to change the image and keep all the layering, blending, etc.. This is not necessary when only viewing the image, such as in a game..

Simply rasterising (I think thats the right work :P) it to be 'pure pixels' (such as a targa or bitmap) is much more efficient. It may turn out that all the overhead will outweigh the benefits..

Thanks,
Adrian

Also, it's not a good idea because it would still render the same (aka with the white background) also, psd is specific to Photoshop, where photoshop, even though it is a primary image editor, not everyone uses it, and even though most major paint programs do support a psd exporter, not all do, so not everyone would be able to use that feature, and not everyone would want to buy a $200+ paint program, depending on which one you buy, just to be able to get the same effect, so it's not worth anyones time to implement a format that wouldn't be used properly

Plus PSD would use a layered format which wouldn't be read properly by a renderer anyway, it would replace the blank (transparent layer) with 255, 255, 255 aka White

oh good answer.
thanks.

Well i thought there could mean alot of advantadges, but now if you say transparent would turn white that would be useless.

Perhaps are you using effects that blend, mix with or use the background image beneath?

That won't work exactly the same within 3DGS as the effects won't work there. Setting a layer to 'multiply' for example, won't have the Photoshop multiply effect within 3DGS.

A small hint though; make a screenshot of your project and do all your effect testing there. Make sure none of the lower layers do any kind of multiplying or other effects using the layer beneath it (your screenshot). Then you should have no problems. Also, yes.. transparent can turn into white,

Cheers

well i have a rectangle box and i add blend layer effect (shadow) the layer benith is transparent, so the TGA should go well but that wont happen.. i have to later paint the layer to the shadow color.. because transparent will turn white.

I don't quite understand your problem. I do not need to paint the background the color of the glow at all, no offense but I'm quite sure you're doing something wrong.

The layer beneath should never be a layer that blends with the transparent background with some kind of effect, as that won't have any effect inside 3DGS. TGAs save transparency and also color, but not if it should multiply with everything beneath it and so on.

Can you describe step by step what you're doing? Perhaps I can solve your problem.



As far as I know this happens with 24bit TGAs only.

Cheers

He _IS_ doing something wrong. I never had any of those problems with TGA files in the past 8 years.

Yeah, same here. No problems at all.

I know what he's doing wrong, it's what usually happens when a. you make a 24bit TGA instead of a 32bit or b. if you don't take care about layer effects which work in photoshop, but not in 3dgs once it becomes a TGA file,

Cheers

1st. open the photoshop
2nd. create a new image with transparent background
then
create a new layer on that layer draw a circle and paint it black...

then rasterize the layer that contains the circle.
Then right click on that rasterized layer and select blending options, and then add a glow effect, the color of the glow is black too. then create the alpha map for that circle and then save as TGA

last: import to GS

you wont get the same effect you would in photoshop.

What's the setting of the blend effect? Do you set it to multiply with the layer beneath? Screen? etc. It's important that it is set to 'normal', at least when it comes to the last layer above the transparent background,

Cheers

its set to normal, im doing everything correcly im almost sure. Its a limitation of alpha mapping.. since the layer beneath will go white the alpha ma will mix the black pixels with the white pixels getting a greyish colour and not black pixels mixed with transparent pixels.

Thats sounds more like a problem of photoshop with tga. Did you try to save it as .png?

Won't you get the same effect, when you draw a black circle on a red background and paint a slightly bigger circle with a smooth edge in the alpha channel?

Are you sure you are doing THESE steps EXACTLY as described here?

I think what he means is a flag for additive blending. MMike, the manual is your friend, look for BRIGHT.

i did that steps! michael exaclty those.. and the product image will be tga 32 BITS YES
but the smooth of the glow will mix with the transparent but the transparent turns white when exporting... thats the point.

The bright flag may work.. but that will bright everything on the image

Micheal now, save that and show me how it looks like in GS ( take a screen shot of Gs with that image you just did) and let me see if you get the same i do.

like I said, I didn't have any problems the last 8 years:

what are the flags your using on the panel.

translucent?
Im lite-c... weird, i do the same and i get problems.

also when i select a new page, it also is RGB but 8 bits, but i can select 16 and even 32 bits, but i guess that has nothing to do with saving the TGA in 32bits because that photoshop does automaticly when you use channel maps.

by the way your screenshots dont show how you create the alpha map channel.. or you did not create them?

visible



I created the alpha map by creating a document with a transparent background, like in my instruction image (take a good look at step ONE, i sorrounded it by a red square):



infact, it is the very same TGA file I saved there doing the screenshots because I had to get the bits/pixel image in some way

then i just got it ingame:



there really is nothing to it.

weird, for me to create the alpha i have to select the circle plus the pixels, i do thhis by using control and click on rgb chanell and save as channel..

can you give me your example file so i can download it...to test on my gs, and also open it on my photoshop to compare.»?

just do EXACTLY the steps as in my instructions. Don't do any other steps you deem to think that are important, just exactly as in my picture. It really isn't that hard!

i get a circle with white background and the black circle with the glow. the transparent will save as white.. even using the transparent steps

just dont do that step

i will get a white square with the black circle on the midle..

This is my steps like i did based on your "tutorial"
and i get a white square, when using TGA 32 bit, but i have one question?
the transparent will do the alphamap automaticly when saving 32 bits ?





and the final image on gs:

EDIT: What version of photoshop are you using?

okay, a more detailed tutorial:

give me your file i want to open on my program and see how it looks. etc.. and test on my engine

i did exaclty that... i have cs3 extended.

the problem here is that saving with 32 bits, wont create by its own the alpha map of the image.
AND im very thankful by your patience Michael, but this is a really weird thing going on here, and i never solved this issue, i always had to create the alphamap manually...

I googles a bit and it seems like a problem with the CS3 version of photoshop.

But there is a patch somewhere on the Adobe homepage, find it, install it and it should work again!

heres the quote from the adobe forums:



Thankfully I never updated to CS3, that problem would have driven me insane aswell!

oh thanks, i thought because it do updates by its own, it could have fixed that too, but maybe not. its the second time i have problems with targa files alpha maps in 2 different programs, i quite using pait shop pro (some years ago) and changed to cs3 when i bought my tabletpen and now this.. damn.

Thanks for notice me.

though i cant find the fix for cs3 only for photoshop7...
Using png files work excelent i think i will use png, also png is more compressed than TGA wow
130K to 9K