"Alien" caught in trap - now examined

It seems that in 2007 a creature that one most cerainly would describe as "Alien" got caught in a trap in Mexico which then was drowned out of fear taking several hours...

Recently the body got examined (DNA analysis, MRT and so on) and the report says that it's a totally unknown species unlike anything found on earth yet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me8Aa6-TNEg

EDIT:
German article about it:
http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/mystery-the...o-gefangen.html

Enjoy your meal
Toast

you picked the probably most reliable source on the planet XD

that creature is some sort of monkey. doesnt even look like an alien,lol.

Strange Mexicans, why did they kill it? The article writes that they put it under water for hours (to drown it) until it finally died.
No matter if this was an alien or a little ape/monkey, it is a sad story. It just tells again how cruel the human race can be.

its no alien, its an orc

I guess it's not about cruelty but about fear. People have fear of things they don't know and when it comes to living things killing often gets the option of choice due to that...


So there are ape species without fur and with this ... well "strange" body proportions and skin?

If the ability to survive underwater for a damn long time just as e.g. the kind of teeth type it has turns out to be correct I really wouldn't describe it as an ape...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

Probably just some hairless monkey that the farmer put into
that trap.
Then some "mystery" scientists come and make a story out of it.

(Farmer -> earning money on reports and interviews)
("mystery" reporters -> eraning money by having
a high viewer show on primetime, earning money from
advertiving revenues)

Dont belive this junk as long as no serious scientific
magazin is reporting on that with doubleprooved results.

The video looks pretty much fake somehow...

looks extremely fake to me....

also, EXTREEEEMELY reliable source xD

There are some more vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FEMSaRrbrc

Alle in dem Video sehen ziemlich dubios aus.
Der Moderator Erinnert mich an eine Kreuzung aus Erich von Däniken und Zahi Hawass

I fear some active but stupid politicians. They are living beings and I dont understand them at all. What shell I do now?

you know best frank, but dont forget about your child

haha yes you are right, this is quite a dilemma.

Dubiosität hat nun aber nicht direkt was mit Glaubwürdigkeit oder Kompetenz zu tun:





Here's some inspiration for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIruu6JvUZo



Enjoy your meal
Toast

sogenannte "Experten" tragen IMMER eine Fliege...

Aber er hat den kleinen Finger nicht oben und kann damit kein Experte sein...

Mahlzeit
Toast

I guess it's fake, else it's a monkey without hair.

Have you read the Comments below the vid?



Sounds very strange!

BTW: "Bild" isn´t a very believeble newspaper

also sounds like a rumour.

Ja dank seinem riesen Hirn ist es Hochintelligent. Saudoof das diese gemeinen Tierfallen so gut getarnt sind. Vorallem dieses kleine Ding

IMHO

[de]...wenn andere - (seriöse) Medien vor den Wahlen an bestimmten Parteien Kritik üben (oder darüber berichten), liegt immer eine kleine "Sensation" in den Schubladen mancher sympatisierender Verlage (Springer-Verlag).

eng: in germany theres a major election in september. Such stories may sidetrack a (huge) group of (simple minded) electors from (uncomfortable) political news. (BILD is a simple but very common newspaper in germany)

omg...

the preview of the late news on RTL TV station was just shown... they'll also report about this alien (around midnight CET).

Well if there's some truth in this story - i.e. if the examinations of the body really are scientific why shouldn't they report about it? I guess the only disputable point would be calling this an "alien"...

I of course have no in depth information about the results of the examination but why would it be so unthinkable that we've uncovered a new, not yet known species or in fact something that cannot come from earth (for whatever reasons that would be - I'm not into genetics)? Or maybe just a mutation of a fur-less tarsier or something like that. It'll be interesting to see how this will turn out...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

Well RTL news is a bit like BILD TV...

Haha - yeah you're right. I actually just watched it and ... well believe it or not but it was worse than what Bild did. Bild at least just did some "high level" journalism (for their standards) by simply repeating what was said in the mexican TV...

RTL now did some street interviews and also digged out some Gollum scenes. In the end there's some kind of "expert" saying that its clearly a monkey. He doesn't seem to know what kind of "monkey" but from watching Youtube videos he's sure it's one. As it seems they weren't able to give a reason as to why many doctors, professors and whoever else examined that thing did not agree with that, they ended with a poor attempt of mocking them...

A classic!

Well if anyone stumbles upon some resources taking this topic a bit more serious and with less prejudices please post so. Would be interesting to know if that's in fact a yet unknown species or not...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

talking about aliens, look at those
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQmFWYWqTZA

Those most certainly are some kind of "worms". I've seen a demonstration of them in a video: When under water they swim around quite independently but when water slowly gets less they clunch together to a big bulk which then starts to "pulse" when being stimulated e.g. by light...

Especially when the bulk of worms starts to move you could see some single worms quite clearly but Youtube quality is too bad for that...

EDIT:
Should be those:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrWRpobA3DM

Enjoy your meal
Toast

This cant be a new species, simply because we know
all large scale (small would be insects etc) Animal groups.

The only chance to find a totally "new" species might be in
the deep ocean. but then it would be just a strong variation
of some other known animal group.

On ground, we will find at maximum an unkwonw variation from already
known animal families.

So this "Alien" could be at maximum a variation of
a known animaltype.
It has all feaures of a (skinned) moneky. Thus it must be a moneky...

So simple..


---

For "Aliens". Even if they exist they cant reach us.
If they would have reached us (in modern times), they would have made a clear contact.
They would also send at a maximum an automated robot/sattelite, not the living alien itself (wich is selfmurder given the
time neeeded for spacetravel)
Everything else is childish "want to beleive" and coverup-theories.

hey, dont destroy our fun here

Actually what makes you think they didn't "contact" us yet? Because television doesn't tell you? Well to give you a good start maybe watch the National Press Club Conferences FROM 2001 and FROM 2007 held by the disclosure project organization. You're welcome to prove those over 400 people wrong and get them punished for swearing an oath on something wrong. Their movement features a lot of upright people from like all military ranks up to generals, scientists or people working for several agencies. Listen to what they have to say and then rethink if your opinion might need a correction...

In contrast to what most people think "aliens" are nothing modern or even new at all. In fact most African tribes have aliens involved in their stories about the creation of the world and mankind. One tribe actually says their ancestors came from the stars. Another interesting thing is e.g. African tribes as well as certain tribes in America reporting of some kind of flying craft landing, releasing some water which then entered something you'd describe as incredible intelligent "talking dolphins" (I don't remember the name they gave them). Might sound like a fun bedstory but the fact that both tribes in Africa as well as those in America tell pretty much the very same story is quite something and you probably won't spend countless hours writing a child story onto your temple's walls...

Most people also seem to know next to nothing about the Sumerian culture which is on of the oldest high-culture (if not THE oldest yet confirmed). Their records also tell a story of people from another star coming to earth and actually creating mankind as it is today. Well not exactly - according to them at first mankind was created as a non-reproductive slave race to work for them which just later on was transformed to something pretty much being what we are now. You might want to look up some detailed summary of that story and some things really might knock your socks off...

Still you can ridicule all of this if you want. It changes nothing that this were the beliefs or simply records of very old cultures and you at the very least can see that the concept of "aliens" isn't new at all...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

Let's say there indeed are aliens, and let's consider they're not stupid...

...wouldn't they notice if they contacted us and the information is held back by some officials?
Wouldn't they try to contact us again in a more obvious way so more people notice?

If they don't want that more people notice... is this really a good sign?

@firoball:
This indeed is a good point but it's no contradiction. The main issue is not to extrapolate our society. I will not give you references to look up for yourself as that would take too long - at a certain point you might be able to verify what I suggest...

Most species out there seem to have taken a position of not interfering unless it's wished by a population. As e.g. the disclosure project proves there have been some highly-developed races making contact with the US-government (I don't have proof of them doing the same for other ones but I guess they did). They offered their "help" in various regions but also asked for things like disarmament and stuff like that. You now can discuss half a lifetime why this was rejected but the most striking points certainly were this breaking the entire system of ruling and economy plus as a slight minor argument probably people getting frightened of the thought. On the other hand one might also say that this was the safe bet in terms of the government being frightened of aggressive cultures out there wooping our asses for fun...

That's why they accepted an offer by an entirely different fraction - mainly consisting of what we like to call the "Greys" (Zeta Reticulans is said to be correct for most of them). They allowed us studying their technologies and even some weaponry but also had some conditions for this. I have no knowledge of the exact terms but one point most certainly was the approval for genetical experiments they have a high demand for (once again I'll not cover this in detail but there is a fine reason for their strong interest in our genetics leading too far at this point) probably being the reason for the massive waves of abductions and incredibly high numbers of missing people in the USA. While there's still lots of mystery around certain things there also are some stories floating around about research stations built just for that reason - not very "entertaining stories" (be sure not to grab huge amounts of "fanfiction" when searching for that though). Afaik there's not much grey-activity on that sector anymore and most of them might even have left earth - but this is very recent information and not really confirmed yet unlike the facts the disclosure project delivers...

So in the end there's some truth to what you said - not making them official indeed is not a good sign as imo the grey faction wasn't the best choice. Another problem is that even if they are trying to get some attention you'll find this incredible amount of mocking that people are trained to face this topic with. I guess you've seen enough postings on forums going to hell when starting this topic and my guess is this one will make no difference. But if just a few actually decide to watch e.g. the 2001 press conference and aren't close-minded that'd would be worth having posted this here and getting my leg pulled for it which next to definitely will happen sooner or later (at least I've never experienced it in another way)...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

I can swear oaths and point at my degrees (and possibly in a while my PhD(s) ) too. It doesn't mean I'm somehow less vulnerable to the flaws of human psychology or the shared curiosity lots of people involved all have with the subject.

Basically an army officer can lie just like any other person can, it's human nature. At the same time, if people really believe they have seen something, it's no different. Those people will be hard to be convinced otherwise.

Oh, and don't get me started on the Heinrich von Däniken stuff, about how Gods might have been aliens visiting ancient cultures instead, it's an outdated and really not that plausible idea. In fact, it's really the mother of all assumptions when it comes to 'aliens'.



Your definition of proof is somewhat funny. They didn't proof anything, they only let people tell stories basically. Very interesting ones I might add, and I love listening to them, but it's far from actual proof.

Of course they did not go through like every single line of their computer printouts concerning the radar contacts and so on - that would have been a monster of a conference probably taking days. The conferences are just there to tell the people that those guys are there, that they have facts and they want an official investigation to break the entire cover up that's upon this topic. Why do they want that? Well as you can see having all the facts isn't enough as people won't listen as it sounds crazy to them. What's needed is an actual investigation that doesn't just collect all the present info but has the power to actually go further than that and start to ask some serious questions...

Unless the people make it clear that this investigation is a strong desire nobody will ever start doing this - you'll find no judge, senator or whatever would be needed to get this thing rolling and the media are just there for smiling at this topic...

At the same time aren't you entirely unfair on them? I mean take some time and think about it - what could those people actually do to satisfy your need of a "proof"? What more do you want than their testimonials and evidences which are way beyond "trivial" or "unlikely" in order to get a full scale investigation started? You seem to try to make everything they say into "seeing something" as if everyone of them would talk about some lights dancing in the sky. Well they're not - even if one's beliefs would disallow any alien lifeforms there still would be flying objects hovering over a military base, paralyzing the controls of the nuclear weapons afaik leading to in increase in defcon status that is something VERY real. At least I'd start to worry about you if you say that it's a totally normal thing that shiny aircrafts fly over your military bases disabling your nukes and that this is nothing worth an investigation...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

discusions about giant alien babies, hairles white monkeys (im amazaed that nobody brought up some racist shit about all monkeys being black. maybe i just ignored it?) and amazing news posts. the only saving grace of this topic is that AS OF YET its neither rassistic and, strangely enough, no religions shit turned up as of now.

This thread deserves 4 out of 5 picards:

they do contact in a more notice way.. the cropcircles..
for example there is a message wrote in binary, that encodes an asci message, and the message is already known..

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L50QzbpuMLg[/video]

Somehow sounds like a viral marketing campaign...
Like for Fringe on Pro7 in Germany...

wise spike is wise.

@MMike:
You also shouldn't forget to mention the cropcircle near Arecibo telescope from where we sent a message describing us, our science and our solar system:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gTZKKWTaj1E/SC15-O74hSI/AAAAAAAAAVM/hhBImKq-OVE/s1600-h/04.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gTZKKWTaj1E/SC16gO74hUI/AAAAAAAAAVc/wcyoTFvE61Q/s1600-h/06.jpg



Enjoy your meal
Toast

so the aliens are around 1m tall and have a jagged DNA?^^

Well I can only provide German explanations of what means what right now:




Concerning the symbol at the bottom:


Enjoy your meal
Toast

wenn die fantasie mit einem durchgeht....

Ich hab mal ne Sendeung von Hape Kerkeling gesehen,
wo Affen mit Fingerfarbe Bilder gemahlt haben.

Bei einer Kunstausstellung waren alle "Kunst-Experten" einig,
dass die Bilder von einem großartigen expressionistischen
Künstler gemahlt worden sind...

Soviel zu "Kornkreisen"

Für die ersten Kornkreise waren doch zwei besoffene typen verantwortlich. Haben einen Stab in ein Kornfeld gesteckt, ein band drangebungen, dieses Band an einer Pappe oder anderes festgemacht und dann die Kreise durch plattwalzung erstellt.
Geht, ist erwiesen. Es gibt auch noch zig andere möglichkeiten solche "mystischen" Kreise zu erstellen.
Noch 10 Picards bitte, für die naivität mancher Leute.

@TheThinker:
Was sollen denn die "ersten Kornkreise" gewesen sein? Wie auch das Konzept der Aliens an sich sind auch die Kornkreise alles andere als eine moderne Erscheinung, bei denen sich ein paar Leute einen Jux daraus machen Muster in die Felder zu "knicken" um sie dann aus der Luft zu betrachten / betrachten zu lassen. Das Phänomen an sich ist aber alles andere als neu und es gab es auch schon bevor wir Fluggeräte hatten, oder bevor wir sonstwie das Ganze von oben hätten betrachten können...

Der älteste echte Bericht darüber ist der hier, wo noch dem Teufel alles zugeschrieben wird - er stammt aus dem Jahr 1678:


Auch sind etwa "Feenkreise" dem zuzuordnen, bei denen es nicht immer nur "natürliche Kreise" oder Ähnliches gab, sondern auch komplexere Muster. Heute lässt sich über den Wahrheitsgehalt dieser Geschichten natürlich nicht mehr viel aussagen...

Auch ist die Erklärung des "Platttretens" oder wie auch immer man solche Kornkreise erzeugen kann keine Totschlägererklärung. Damit lässt sich sicherlich der Großteil der Kornkreise erklären und der Großteil wird auch tatsächlich menschlicher Natur sein, aber dennoch gibt es Fälle, die sich schlicht und ergreifend damit nicht erklären lassen. Ich kann die exakten Details jetzt nicht mehr aus dem Stehgreif genau darlegen, aber das Muster wie die Pflanzen geknickt oder gefaltet sind unterscheidet sich von einer Methode, bei der man einfach Pflanzen umknickt und der Grund für das Umknicken ist auch nicht eine mechanische Kraft sondern vermutlich eine Strahlung die gewisse Wachstumsknoten (oder wie die noch gleich hießen) zerstören / zum Platzen bringen, wodurch die Pflanze umknickt...

Wer will kann ja mal durch den freien Film "Die neue Feldordnung" durchspulen - da wird darauf kurz eingegangen...

Mahlzeit
Toast

now this thread just crossed the line by introducting some new "evidence".
this thread deserves 5 out of 5 picards:

Oh stop trolling spike! you have to believe! start buying some esoteric stones and some candles for meditation and if you practise it and are one with the cosmos, you'll understand that we are not alone.

what the fuck is an esoteric stone? a stone that smokes weed?

@ Spike: Los schnell: http://esoterik-shop.bongomania.de/esoterik-steine.htm

Esoterik Stein

Regardless you want to take part at the discussion or not, can you PLEASE stop spamming the thread with those pictures?

If you think it's nonsense, just stay away.


Regardless whether it really is nonsense (I cannot prove, but I cannot believe it either), I think it's interesting to read here.

So: STFU if you don't have anything useful to contribute.

Ooooo, i like where this thread is going... naive assumptions, dumb theories and idiotic beliefs.


.... just lemme get the popcorn.

If there are Aliens on earth we would know. One Count for "not an ailien believer".

Aber, unser neuer Bürgermeister sieht tatsächlich aus wie ein Alien, ein grauenvolles SPD Alien. Oder dieser Steinzombikandidat. Wenn der mal nicht vom Vulkan kommt.

(Argh, man bin ich albern wenn ich nicht weiß was ich da schreibe)

... lolwut.

truthfully, we cannot dispute alien intervention on our planet. look at events in the bilbe, and the koran, as well as other religions. beause the term ufo wasnt used back then, because that phrase didnt become a term until the 50's anyway, so we cannot believe that we are the only intellegent life in the universe. the annunaki from sumer were aliens. who do you think designed the pyramids all over the world from egypt to mexico.

there are more stars and planets in the known universe than sand stones on our planet.
i dont deny the existance of alien life.
i just think that if any species is smart enough to travel lightyears to your planet, they surely have a smarter way of comunication than knicking down corn.

no aliens ever made contact with us. if they did, why leave? dont you think that NOT ONE alien woudl stay here to study us? really?
let me tell you about the fermi paradox. it says that WE are the only technologic race in the universe.
either because all other species are behind us OR because more advanced species were destroyed already...
think about that...

Do you know how long light travels through the universe? You constantly look into an ancient past when you look at the skies at night.
Many of the suns (stars) you see at night are probably already dead. You only see some old pictures of them.

Just think about the long travel it needs for an alien to visit us. It would be very hard to enter this solar system just in time to meet the human race in it's very short moment of existence.

Even if there are tons of aliens out there, it is not very likely that they meet us in time.

I can only repeat:

-Aliens MIGTH be out there, simply by the mathematical chance involved. But this is not a 100% proove that they are there.

-But they will NOT come here! :

travelling takes so long, and they also have a life.
Why should they depart from their civilization and waste their
life, and the following generations, just to see
if Earth does really contain something interesting.

They WILL NOT fly here. At least not the biologigal forms.
Its would be simply rediculus.

The maximum they would send are automated beacons/sattelites
or even a robot.
But they have no chance to directly controll it, so
it will be (at Maximum) some kind of AI sollution
to gather and share Information.

So it could be that one of those sattelites
noticed us, but did not have the methods to communicate with us.
Or simply gathered some data and left.
But they DEFINITELY did not build his sattelite to look
for corn field (not portato or sheep fields or course), check
if the density was propper, and then start
jumping up and down to bend the plants into nice
bubble-bobble shapes.

they could be so far advanced that they travel differently than we do

however, i too say that we will never meet an intelligent alien life form. all intelligent life in the universe will make sure to never meet us. we are barbaric monsters...

I dont think we are babaric.

The society is just developing
to econimical laws of self interest.
Wich is normal for ANY species on Earth.

Altruism is not a dominant strategy in evolution.

Yes, but they cannot bend physical borders.
If you are on Mars and you send a message then it needs 3 minutes to reach earth. So after 6 minutes you can get a reply. Only emails make sense there. And this is just around the corner (in our own solar system).

You're just taking into account electromagnetic waves and 3D laws for mass-having particles though. When restricting our entire universe to just those levels you are correct. The multi-dimensionality of our universe allows far more than that though...

While there might be several ways for long distance travel I know of one concept for this that seems to be valuable and even is mentioned within the records of the old cultures although rather rough shaped. I have to say though that I'm too lazy for describing that in detail as in order to have at least a gasp of how things interact with each other it would require some epic textwalls...

So I'll keep it at saying that there are more things than 3D space & time that exist and influence our world's behaviour. I guess you also have heard of some very basic concepts like tachyons (above light-speed particles - currently rather theoretical though) or teleportation of certain particles (I don't know which one but one particle actually was successfully teleportated leading to travelling with more than lightspeed)...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

for example the quantum entaglement... says that to particles that are original from the same particle that created, are connected. And if you separate those 2 particles with the same quantum spin, and make them apart millions light years, and if you make one reverse its spin, the other one will instantaneously change too.. and this flow of information, this transmittion or whatever , must be much more then speed of light.

i must add this.

Alien, are not very well known, is true, and we must think that by math chances, there must be much more then 1 alien species.

-Some of them can be bad, others good.
- They already studied our DNA and much more, that they know we are afraid of them, and they simply dont want to show up yet, they Hide, and they also, probably are invisible when they need. So we dont see it.
Also our bacterial world is different from them, so they cant contact us , wihout infection and possible have no immune system for our world.

Another addition to aliens living "next to us" is that we probably wouldn't recognize some of them as "alien" as they look very much like us. Still afaik next to no one should actually "walk among us"...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

well there is a specie like us, the pleiadians... they are a higher vibrational energy beings. They apear totaly invisible to us. since we are low energy compared.

its like clicking on the remote control and you cant see the infrared, but when you aim at a camera digitaly, it will show. So they also have to lower their energy, to make contact with us.

That energy will anyway show as light, bright entities. So i think there is something here that points perhaps that the ghosts are nothing more then they ( the aliens, vibrating in lower energy so they can ve more visible... same with their flying ships.

Man, perhaps one or two joints less will do the trick. I think every light entity will disapeare then.

Honestly, this is really the biggest nonesense I've ever red here in the forums.

Please show me a picture of such an alien.
And don't come with "but you can't see them, because they vibrating in another sphere" (ohhhm) If nobody can see them, why should I believe they are there. Infrared is proofable. Feelings like love are proofable with modern medicine (biochemical). Lightspectren are all proofable, but I belive you can't even show me a hint that this things exsists.

Naive or totaly brainfucked.
Or this is absolute sarcastic (or even cynical) and I've got this post wrong than I have to applaud to your post.

Aaand, it is nonesense that we could be afraid. If something like an alienvisitor would apeare in the german news, the people would be excited for one or two days, than they would say: "Hey I have to do my work, shit on the alien, I need the money." Or "I need the new PS4 and the new game. I wish I had not spend all my Hartz 4 this month. Oh Perhaps I can ask the aliens for money."

Zoom, oh a light entity apeared and said: "You are realy mean. you should calm down and let the people blieve what they want." <plop> <puff> I shot it with my desintegrator lying here around.

I realy hope your post are not serious.

Perhaps I should let belive you what you want, but telling such things like facts which "must be right" can't be tolerated (by me).

I like this high energy idea. It could make great sci-fi episodes. It is similar like a bunch of parallel universes, a break in the structure of time and space and all this. Oh, I love these Stargate episodes!

If you just want a collection of pictures just browse through here:
"Human like": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-9xai73_n8&feature=related
Grey / Reptilian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWR6WE4z20g&feature=related

Concerning the vibration levels:
You cannot exactly compare this to stuff like vibrations of an EM-wave. It's sort of the way that lets you shift between the dimensions - that's why they're totally invisible to us when being in those higher "vibrations"...

Concerning the fear of people:
Maybe read some reports or studies on this topic - single people may act intelligently but crowds of them tend to behave stupid. If suddenly aliens would show up or make broadcasts on TV without any warning or some people knowing about it there'll be a huge panic in lots of areas. That'll be for different reasons - the most striking certainly being the fear of the unknown together with all the stuff hammered into us from the movies. Then there would be religious people who'll find their entire world view shattered in a matter of seconds and that'll be lots of people. Then there's the part maybe forming up just slowly like us never being space pioneers. We'll never be the first to explore space as at times we'd get into space pretty much everything already would have been explored by someone else. Humanity will never "feel the same" again as we'd be rendered small, tiny and unimportant...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

i too, am a big fan of those kind of scifi things. ever seen sliders? that show is so ninties, its awesome

edit: oh and toast, we ARE small tiny and unimportant. we always were...

Unimportend, yes of course. But the masses are not as dumb as some people claim. Perhaps american masses, because some of them are the most naiv people of the world. But german masses learend there lesson. I think in our country a mass feeling like fear are not possible anymore. (Except somebody nukes one of our towns).

1. Nobody would believe the news first
2. Everybody would compare this news to the swineflue news and say hey they exaggerate it again.
3. Some small groups will go crazy
4. The most of the german people would be happy if there are aliens. They would hope that some of them will destroy the Kanzleramt and kill all politicans like in Mars Attacks
5. Ok, in America some crazy religious groups would commit suicide, other would begin to rob town, only because they can

This are assumptions, too. But you begin with non proofed facts. So, here I am with my unproofed "facts".

i doubt that europeans are smarter than americans. if i check the news, what people think on the street, who they vote, what they do in their spare time, how they WANT to live (not how tehy do live) i come to the conclusion that they are not a bit smarter...

@TheThinker:
Well apart from mass panic reactions being the most probable reaction (although this of course depends a lot of how the aliens would be introduced - if a small craft with a human looking ambassador goes live on TV that would be quite okayish in contrast to an entire alien fleet hovering over a capital broadcasting some "Grey" saying something) you're a bit underestimating things...

For the religious part for example - this isn't all about some cultists comitting suicide. It's about most world religions and so all the Muslims or Christians would suddenly find out that they're not "god's chosen ones" - the one and only unique being with the highest development level of them all. Finding out that there's a race maby million to billion years older than us travelling around with a technology our "official science" can't even really imagine in any realistic or proven way can be quite frightening. People would be totally confused at first: Have they worshipped a wrong god? Will they go to hell for that now? You don't have to be a cultist or something but especially in Europe and America there are immense amount of people really believing in their religion. Their entire "reality" would "go to hell"...

Then there also is going to be this atmosphere of mistrust. It will be pretty much self-evident that all governments around the world pretty much must have lied about this topic. People wouldn't accept their elected representants anymore as they've lied and tricked to an ultimate extent and so pretty much the entire ruling system would break down and martial law probably would get introduced in lots of countries. There also has just to be one bigger country running towards a short-time anarchy to make many more follow if broadcasted news on this topic wouldn't be forbidden in the first place (still the internet would provide the respective informations if it wouldn't get shut down too which on the other hand would create more fear and anger in the first place)...

So you see that just popping up and saying "Hello!" especially if some governments don't want you to do that (which they must certainly don't want because despite any panicking happening or not the trust in them will be gone for sure) is very problematic and as a benevolent race you wouldn't want to do that without any preparations which when you look closer are told to be running for a long time...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

this was a good one.

But seriously, they lie to us all the time and nothing breaks down. SPD told us that they will not increase the value added tax. CDU told they will raise it not more than 2 percent. But in the end they raised it at 3 percent. They all lied and this happens all the time. They even dont excuse themselves for lying. It is their daily work it just belongs to it.

But nothing breaks down. An alien discovery will not change this. The stupid people will sit in front of their TVs and will just eat their junk food as they always did.
And a couple of other people will post in forums

But those things are "unimportant" and most people look at it with boredom and disinterrest. You also can make the people believe that it's necessary and if you repeat that for long enough over the media people will believe it...

That's a whole lot different for an alien disclosure. It wouldn't mean some politicans sugarcoating something. It would mean entire generations of politicians over the whole world would have lied blatently and repeatingly on a topic of immense importance for like over 60 years. You already said yourself that people think of politicians lying a bit here and there. After such an event they would extend that thinking and don't believe a damn single word they're telling as there'd be no reason left to do so...

Together with like ... imagine George W. Bush would still be the US president. Would you want him to maybe go into private with the aliens and decide about the future of at least the US citizens (not that it wouldn't have been like that in general until now but it would be way more evident). You know ... like Mittermeier said:




Enjoy your meal
Toast

i think, humanity will react to aliens liek they reacto to everything:
ATTACK!
here, have a test if youd survive an alien invasion...

http://www.okcupid.com/tests/would-you-survive-an-alien-attack

IF YOU ALREADY KNOW THE TEST PLEASE SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT IT
dont spoil the fun for teh kidz

Just passed the test, thanks spike ^^
It's really a nice one, go on and pass it guys/girls ^^

The test says that I´d be a hero
Great one.

I btw liked listening to those two disclosure project conferences...
But I don´t really know what to think about it. They seem to have some supportative goals like no weapons outsite of the atmosphere and they call the aliens to be against war of any kind and the disclosure project initiators ask humanity to grow up.
A fact seems to be that there are and were institutions in several nations, probably starting with what the blue book developed from, to do research on reported flying objects. Fact also seems to be that most of them, but not all could have been identified. Those unidentified ones are only few on many reports on even more people who could make a report... To me at least it sometimes happends that I am not sure if what I remember was a dream, something I read, a scene from a very exiting computergame, a movie or just real... Thus lets say that a big percentage of those aren´t real, there are still some left. But I think that it is very possible that those were still human made and those who saw it may didn´t see it very sharp... Left are those people which are sure that they have been very close to one of those unidentified flying objects and were together with many other people. In such a case I would be interested in hearing the story of all of those (lets say of at least 100 persons). An interesting case is also the one who said that he helped getting out several dead and also some living aliens from crashed ufos. I somehow can´t think of many ufos close to us all the time so that there are several cases that one crashes...
I btw always thought that nothing can travel faster than lightspeed?
If there is no way around it, what we can´t really know, I see no way of living aliens close to earth. I guess both sites would profit in a peacefull exchange. If there was something like that, we probably won´t know it until there is no way around the technology, and people making a lot of money of the alternatives.

However, I tend to not believe in "greys" on earth, but I am not sure of course.
As long as I didn´t see them myself, they aren´t or are here or both. Similar to my knowledge of this cat...:


I wanted to add something, but I forgot what it was And anyways, it all leads to nothing. But it is definatly interesting.

Edit: double post...

pleidians are described in history long time ago.
That race is not interested in abducting us, thats another race, which i think is in extinction.
Those pleidians are reported to some UFO encounters.but do not want contact with us, they aren just studying the ground, plants and other biological things.

Also they are what i would call, sons of GOD, they are the people that did teach to humans what is religion and how to follow god rules and love to keep homo sapiens alive. They told us about GoD, but of course the thing is so much more complex that human mind would't understand on that time, so they have to tell the story in another more understandable way. Which is bible.

Aliens are Connect to JESUS and GOD and Virgin Maria in some extend.

For example. Some UFO Spacecrafts are the ORBS or Spheres of light.
In mexico one of them did fall and a woman built her own museum ( victoria museum of OVNI (UFO in spanish)). And she has on of those little globes, and for her surprise, those globes are exctly the same, painted in some pre renascentist pictures.

Where GOD stands with moses touching that globe with some antenas and jesus with his feet on it.
[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRRUI7qalQY[/video]

with the paiting..
[img:center]http://galeon.hispavista.com/astcusco/img/the_holy_trinity[/img]

Also in 2012 the magnetic shield of earth will fade away, and will expose us to radiation, deadly.. and they come to help people who believe in love, because those are the ones to keep life with meaning. and not the war ones, that lead to destruction all over.

nice test

This gave me the hardest laugh ever.
I believe in God and Jesus, but your text is simply awsome crazy.

We speak again in 2012 when we are all mutants, because of radiation.

mike, do you really believe what you are writing in this thread?
and they wonder why i gave up all hope on mankind...

i wonder why noone opened an "alien" thread in the past. Now I know: Some people are just batshit crazy.

You guys are so mind closed, I cant be sure 100% but i do really believe everything i said, and much more i know but i dont tell its true... And there is so much more to know that some of you, dont have the mind capability to understand.. poor guys..

Its like someone laugth when they told the sun is the center of the solar system, many people though crazy too but well its your opinion, and i wont worry about changing it, you believe in what you want.

But i could tell , if you think this is crazy, then, opening an alien topic is crazy too, because there is not really 100% evidence ..

Well that's not entirely correct. Pole shifting probably will occur around 2012 but it won't really lead to deadly radiation or stuff like that. Still it might have deadly effects as the lack of the magnetic field has strong influences on us. You might know from experiments where people are exposed to magnetic fields leading to some "paranoia" or hallucinations (those experiments e.g. were done to explain some ghost phenomena postulated to appear due to certain magnetic fields which were quite successful in proving that imo). Putting a human being into a real EM "bottle" even has more devastating results and is reported to even cause death...

Still 2012 is no date of death & carnage where we have to be "rescued". It's rather a "window" for taking an evolutionary step. Pretty much every old culture marks 2012 as the year of the dawn of a new world or however you want to describe it. The best interpretation I have is that earth will ascend somewhen around this date giving us the opportunity to also enter the mentioned higher dimensions. That's also why all those benevolent species like the Pleiadians have sort of left their observational positions and are working on things like an official first contact and in general want to help us during the process of ascension. That's why I guess the next years are going to get "interesting"...


Also not entirely true imo...

They aren't really involved in the bible and I'm also not sure what role they played in the centuries before the bible. Actually the egyptian culture afaik was the last one having some real influence by "ascended beings" pretty much consisting of Thoth and his son Tat together with Echnaton (who as Pharao tried to impart as much knowledge as possible while he could). From that point on things pretty much made themselves independent...

I'm currently reading some books from someone who says he got some lessons from Thoth "recently" and I find certain details about mathematics and geometry quite amazing. I've not gotten to the ground of things yet but it's very cool to see that this e.g. leads to the way cristals form themselves being identical to what I learned about cristallography at university...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

i think humans did not evolve from monkey, thats just my point of view, we are a hibrid of aliens and another mix of animals on earth. We are an experiment.

And how can you explain the nefilin? and those giants of India? how could these huge sketons under ground, with million of years existed? which are not described on human evolution (homo sapien family) and that means if those exist, then, there were giant hmans before the existance of monkeys then, perhaps humans did not descend from monkey.

Your are not in scinetology or something else, are you?

Well "experiment" always depends from which point of view you're looking at it...
Concerning the steps of our human type there are told to be 5 types (or was it four?)...

The first one is a bit smaller than us and it still has the consciousness of the "collective mind" or how you want to call it. The Aborigines most certainly are the only "humans" of that kind left on earth and if you read some stories about them you'll probably hear about that if one of them experiences something the other ones can sort of go into that experience in a dream like manner. This also makes former cultures of that type extremely hard to verify as they e.g. don't need to write anything down as they can enter that collective consciousness. For other examples for the concept of such a central consciousness e.g. look up the "100th ape" phenomenom. There also have been some studies to prove such a thing for us humans leading to an experiment (repeated for several hundred times now afaik) being focused around a test people have to write. The same test gets written several times by different people. Amazingly when you average the results the groups writing them later on always had higher scores. This then was proven to be a general behaviour when repeating it with different tests and people writing them. That's a big hint of some sort of interconnection between every human making it "easier" to solve problems others have thought about before. The result of course is limited meaning you just could get a certain improvement over the first groups which didn't really go up when doing it again and again...

The second one is us. We're a bit taller than the first type and certainly a bit more intelligent. We've lost all contact to the central consciousness as well as for anything else and just are aware of our physical body...

The third type again is a big tad taller when we and it again has a consciousness of many things apart from the physical body. It most certainly again is a bit more intelligent than us - i.e. has the potential for that...

The fourth type then is "ridiculously" tall. Actually some of those statues from egypt actually show people of that size. There e.g. is one statue of a pharao of that size and sort of at the edge of the throne he sits on there is a woman (the "queen") which has a pretty much a height a tall woman of our type would have. Officially nobody has a clue as to why it was done that way which is why it is said that the pharao was way more "important" which is why they made him that big and the queen just that small. It's a remain of those advanced humans ruling / teaching us though. For the same reason you won't just find quite some statues of that size but also hallways and buildings built with huge heights and doorsizes simply to make them "fit" comfortably in there. You can't really explain that by a wanted "pomposity" as it would make not too much sense / it'd be hard to explain why no other culture like e.g. the Romans built their stuff in such a style (i.e. everything in a way that it's designed for a really tall human)...

I'm not too sure if that was the final type or not right now. There might have been a fifth type as I still remember that it's said to have a blueish skin and I know of one reported being who fits that which would be Metatron...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

I am not sure why you think that argument makes sense. In a proper investigation, you will have to do more than just blindly collect information. In a proper conference you'll have to make sure people will be able to review your updates on the topic. A big chunk of convincing people is coming up with the most interesting e v i d e n c e. You don't need to show each and every testimony.



It's like churches... they don't care about facts, they just claim to have them. So easy, not having to back that up, ain't it?



Actually, you're wrong here. Many governments have taken the subject quite seriously, as is evident by their own research. That it's commonly shrouded in secrecy doesn't really say much, as most government research is.



It's not unfair to demand some actual proof for their statements. Recorded conversations won't cut it, we'll need evidence of said alien aircraft or life instead. It's not unfair. Just like it's not unfair to ask the same proof for the God question.



What evidences? Their testimonies is all there is. Alien life itself might not be unlikely at all, but so far there hasn't been a first contact and mathematically speaking that's pretty unlikely, especially with our own technology in mind. That might not say much for alien life that's much more advanced, but it would take extraordinary means of transport, possibly even through time.



It is all about seeing something, where in reality, they certainly aren't seeing anything, but instead interpreting as if they have seen something. They might think they have seen something, but that's not necessarily true to reality.

The UFO stories exist in a strange world of hearsay, where each ever more extraordinary story somehow becomes a credible source of information for the next.



Simply put, technology this advanced can still malfunction. In fact, it's more likely to fail. A lot of equipment is vulnerable to atmospheric interference in which cases you might not even need to flip a switch or enter a code. Electromagnetic fields change all the time, there are really much more realistic explanations for those events than alien aircraft.

As an analogy, take a mountain of fire matches. If you know how to operate them you can make fire. But under the influence of only the sun, they can start burning themselves. This is only one of many external influences that can start an event.

It's pretty shortsighted to think that in case of those nuclear silos it must have been aliens.

More Y2K-typical nonsense. Pole shifting can only occur when very large planets come close to earth and cause an electromagnetic wave. The closest planet able to do this is actually moving away from us. This isn't about something as simple as geomagnetic reversal, we're talking about axial reorientation here.

So far, there's really no reason to assume there will be a mysterious planet X within 2 years passing by close enough to cause this.

Also, when it comes to science. It has been predicted by some scientists to already have happened as early as 1991. Guess they were wrong and I'm sure 2012 is simply another 'popular prediction'.

It's also pretty stupid to assume the Mayan and their calendar had knowledge of reoccurring events their own civilization didn't even live long enough for to ever have witnessed. Technically speaking, their long-count calendar doesn't really have an 'end' at all. They were afraid of thinking that far in the future, but which cultures in the past didn't fear the end of the sea or thought of falling stars as a sign of the Gods? It really means a whole lot less.

Also, stop reading those websites that have those disclaimer graphics to make it more authentic; "Presents science facts backed by popular predictions."

All they do is grab stuff from all over the place, rip it out of their context and make up a nice story, that's usually scientifically impossible.

i still dont get it it: we lvie in 2009 and people still buy that magic mystic nonsense crap. why? on the other hand, people still belive in god aswell *sigh*

Nobody says we evolve from monkey. We share the same ancients (is this the right word?), so in the evolution tree, men and monkeys are nearly parallel.
But the hybrid theory is interesting...^^

Apart from the fact that the press was able to get quite some in-depth info on certain things afterwards (and their website also features some of this) you're totally disregarding one major fact. Much of the info they want to give actually is classified. So if you'd pass stuff like that around they'd get punished and I guess the evidence would get confiscated and probably would not be useable in front of any US court. So all they can do is like crossing the border with one leg saying we have some classified info we weren't allowed to release but our conscience tells us that this would be wrong which is why we stand up now and want an investigation were we can testify...


Well your demand is unfair in terms of them wanting to get the proof of an actual alien aircraft etc. and that's what the whole investigation they want would be allowed. So basically you want some certain evidences but are against an investigation which might have the power to actually get those evidences? That's what I call unfair - I saw you giving no clue as to why such an investigation would be a bad thing (what would anyone have to lose anyway)..


I guess you didn't watch the entire conference through. I actually don't know what to say towards this and some other points of yours. When someone getting to a crash site with an alien aircraft and alien bodies you just say they were just hallucinating or something? Well it's the perfect counter-argument though as any time anyone experiences something like that he "just was seeing something where in reality he certainly didn't see anything". If that really is your point of view there's no use in discussing this any longer as you've already defined what is "real" and what is not despite it being so or not...


Sure - making such a conclusion would be quite irrational though. If you see someone at night with like black clothing & stuff doing something at a fuse box and the next thing is that the power & lights turn of would you suggest this being about a technical malfunction or would you suggest the suspicious guy turned to power off? Same for that UFO case - a strange craft visible for anyone doing something strange at the silos leading to disabled weapon controls: A general misterious techincal malfunction never uncovered or an interaction of that craft?

I'm not saying that you're 100% wrong but this having nothing to do with the craft would be very very very unlikely. Especially while talking of something serious like nuclear weapons and their controls - technology used for that is very solid and I know of no other case of such a "technical disaster" - do you?


While I cannot prove that 2012 will be the next poleshift your argument is entirely wrong. Poleshifting is a natural thing and happens after a certain time. Actually the poles are always moving and "recently" they were actually moving pretty fast (maybe you heard from the updates airports etc. had to make to adapt some changes in the magnetic field)...

There was a theory of this happenning like well every 100000 years or something (don't know the exact number anymore the old theory gave for that). Recent researches show though that the timespan for this probably is much shorter as with some fancy new techniques while analyzing either ice or ground layers different orientations for the poles were verified...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

pole shifting is something that does not stop. its progressive. And i think is has nothing to do with nearby planets. Anyway i though that that planet X , already discovered by NASA, is aproaching not going away.

but there are so much thing we dont know.. like the electromagnetic portal found by NASA.

As far as I know, planet x hasn´t been discovered yet... There have just been some minor differences between the calculated flight path and the one which actually happened, for two mission. This is a hint, that there could be another big rock somewhere in our solar system whose gravity caused it. Depending on its size (by influencing the mass of course), it has to be in any case quite far away There are a few theories about it, which could be possible. But still only theories, as far as I know.
If wikipedia is right, poleshifting does happen, but it is a VERY slow process... A nearby passing planet or a metheor crashing on earth would probably cause a rapid change... But I guess that is kinda unlikely.

nasa pages says PLANET X...

Link ... please. I want to see if your sites are realy official.

LINK TO NASA

Thanl you
But this thing is so far away, it will hurt nobody. And in the article is no hint, that this planet will come to earth and make our axis crazy.

well it doesn't but, i dont know the size of it, but it could influenciate, the gravity, and also, it could drag an asteroid with it, towards earth.

now i little off topic, but when i read , change to a higher dimension and vibration, what does vibration stands for? energy? sound? is it a wave? a electromagnetic wave? if so, which range? and how can something change the vibration of someone?

Nope you're wrong, the poles are not always moving, there's simply a natural wobble effect of the earth spinning around it's axis. That's not at all what this is about though. It doesn't flip the earth axis!!! I'm sure you're mixing up magnetism reversal with poleshifting here. Those are two very different things!

An actual 'poleshift' means the earth axis gets turned upside down in a very short period of time.

If such a thing would be imminent it would be easy to proof, as a huge asteroid or planet would have to pass by quite closely for it to cause such a poleshift.

The whole 2012 date is nuts really, there's nothing moving towards the earth that will pass by in 2012. Closest planets are actually moving away from us. Only thing close enough would be the moon, but it will take many many years before it would cause a collision or have a bigger impact on earth than it already has now.



Governments use secrecy by default, on just about all topics... there's no proof in that. In fact, many documents are being released under the act of freedom of information all the time. Some of those are interesting, but they still don't proof anything.

The fact that there are documents, only means they are somewhat interested in figuring out whether possibly hostile countries have developed more advanced (spy) aircraft and so on. I don't think the global scientific community really thinks there's a realistic chance of alien contact here on earth. This doesn't mean they won't actively investigate sightings and many of those scientists are or have been working for governments all over the world.

Talk to them and they can't give you one example of a case that actually provides proof of true alien contact. There might be cases where it's impossible to determine the cause (without a doubt), but it's still wild speculation to assume alien space craft were flying around our planet.



As I pointed out, there's a lot of human psychology involved! Using hypnosis I can make anyone believe having experienced an abduction by aliens. Including the whole typical research they'd do on humans.

It's because a.) we have a general (fictional) idea of what it would be like

and

b.) because our mind is able to interpret things as though they are being different from reality.

Having said that, I don't doubt people truly believe they have seen something, I'm merely stating that this doesn't mean what they think they have seen was the actual reality.

It hasn't got much to do with hallucinating, but I am sure many were in fact hallucinating.

Look at it from a different angle though. Look at the sky, search for a cloud with an interesting shape. If you look long enough and concentrate, your mind will always try to distinguish shapes and come up with something more. We all know it's still just a cloud, but our brain is trying to look for more.

Now imagine this in an entirely different context. Say, you're on the ground, pitch black night and there's only a blue light in the sky. Our first interpretation will always be 'it's a light in the sky', but when our second evaluation doesn't lead to a probable cause determination... we will fantasize about what's causing it, until we actually figure out what it was. It's as simple as that.

It's why people see Jesus' face on rocks, even though no one really knows (or can know) what Jesus must have looked like.

It's also why recorded videos of 'flying unidentified aircraft' often are pretty easy to debunk.



That's way different. Physical contact, someone messing with something that directly influences that device.. totally different scenario.



It's actually extremely short sighted to assume it MUST have been caused by that aircraft, that might not have been an aircraft at all in the first place.

( Also, as an example, don't underestimate the fact that's it's better for a Department of Defense (aka 'the Army') who's job it is to protect a country (or make people believe it does) to say it 'might have been an UFO', instead of admitting a hostile country has deployed a virus or even infiltrated those bases that caused this. Wouldn't you agree the whole UFO sighting might as well be the malfunction being visible on the radar screens? Perhaps cause and effect are in fact switched.)



Yes, of course! Again, technology this advanced is bound to malfunction quite a few times at least! And it does! But thankfully there are also a good amount of fail-safe procedures and back-up systems running. This has one disadvantage though... those can fail as well! This is what happened and this is what's quite rare. Malfunction of equipment isn't rare though.

Look at the space program and how much has to be exactly right for it not to blow up during launch... we all know it has failed many times, why assume this is different for nuclear technology? Just because it's shrouded in secrecy, doesn't mean things always go perfectly right... that's just nuts.



It's impossible to proof alien life without a physical body or aircraft.. simple as that. There's nothing unfair about that.

Investigations are never bad, it's the foundation of truth finding, but I simply think they are sometimes futile in case of many of these often quite mystical and farfetched subjects like Gods. (Don't forget how many things are already been proved not to have been historical and such, there's more to it than just the abstract possibility of a God's existence. And then we haven't even touched the subject on what the definition of a God would be, no one really agrees on this trust me.)

Point taken. Didn't know the english term "poleshift" was bound to the geographic poles. I meant "geomagnetic reversal" (that seems to be the correct term)...


So what's your point? Releasing those documents is illegal and most certainly will destroy them for use before at least a US court. That's why only summaries of what they are saying are released right now and that's should pretty much be the answer to your question as to why they don't show the evidences to everyone...

Trying to dumb the evidences down is futile as we both didn't have a look at them. I'd still say they've some interest as someone willing to swear an oath on what they say is quite something and worth giving them an opportunity to show what they've got...


Even better - you're now implying the government has techniques to hypnotize entire military bases without knowing and against the soldiers' wills...


Who said something of physical contact? The person stands there and does something you don't really understand it is. The alternative scenario: Some craft hovering in mid-air emitting some "light-beams" - something you don't really understand leading to the effect of a loss of control over the respective silos...

We now can discuss what those "light-beams" were but I guess it's pretty futile. Saying that such an extraordinary event has nothing to do with a physical event of the respective parts at the very same moment is highly irrational imo...

If you hear clip-clopping think of horses, not zebras...


Cool - as you seem to you for a fact that it happened this way you should go ahead and explain it to some of their experts. You'll probably have a new job if you point them to the part that malfunctioned...


It is unfair. Why? Simple: Someone says: Yeah we sure could prove it but we need more power in order to get access for certain stuff. We'll give you some indication that we know what we're talking about. Give us an investigation and we'll try to get all the evidences you want to see...

And you just give them a no and that's unfair as in reality there won't be an Arnold Schwarzenegger type of guy who "kidnaps" an alien, shoots his way to a military base to end up at a fancy TV station to showcase it and ... people just saying "Fake!"...

There have been too many guys making jokes about this - nobody would believe you if you had an evidence and go to the media. An investigation is something people might take more seriously but you don't seem to grant them that which is unfair. At least I don't know of any other way to take this subject seriously but maybe you have an idea...

Oh and btw - which "investigation" towards the subject of God are you talking about?

Enjoy your meal
Toast

YEs its magnetic shift thats the talk about here, not poleshifting and i never though about that lool, like earth turning upside down that would be very weird and bad..
The problem is magnetic shift, so that there is no north or south, and no more shield to external magnetic waves from the SUN, also satellites will go down, and all electronics too. Radiation .. Gamma rays etc etc.

--------

There is a youtube video about the American minister of defense, SAYING aliens do exist. and US is "aware" of it. Now i dont know it is fake or not.

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGyFWyNuF3s[/video]

(dont know whats wrong with my TAGS ..if someone knows help me)


Also the changings is because there is a galaxy alignment

Hypnosis only works on those who are happy to be hypnotised, and even then most won't experience something strong enough, and of those who do many won't retain that belief after they leave their state of hypnosis.

While I'm happy to accept that whole paragraph was a joke (with the wink at the end), it was a funny thing to hear from someone who seems to be all about psychology.

I don't want to get into the rest of the discussion -- I don't have the time to look at conspiracy videos and read about stuff that I personally don't find interesting at all -- aliens.

Jibb

For all interested in the initial point of this topic here now something similar...

http://www.xnewsnow.com/tag/cerro-azul-panama/

EDIT:
And when talking about all of this I guess something about a "strange" but adorable animal might fit here too:
http://www.wimp.com/unusualanimal/


Enjoy your meal
Toast

The only joke I made was about people who claim to have been abducted and say they got probed.

You are by the way wrong in the assumption that hypnosis only works with people who allow to be hypnotized. This is simply not true. Yes, it's more difficult with people who do not want to be hypnotized and many people will need a different approach to reach a state of hypnosis, but ultimately everyone can be hypnotized. There's no such thing as being immune to hypnosis.

What I was trying to point out though, was that the whole UFO stuff and how people think about that subject greatly relies on perceived but fictional ideas, basically just someone's imagination sparked at the right time and moment. Suggestion is key here and as I said earlier, this is just human psychology. We all know how our eyes can fools us sometimes. The same is true for our minds.



Something strong enough? What do you mean? With hypnosis you basically instruct people to believe something without their natural control system warning them that it's perhaps untrue or idiotic. As long as you're a good hypnotist, you can get some pretty strong experiences in their minds.

In fact, to give an example of how strong a hypnotic idea can be, there are a couple of stories floating around of people dying because of hypnosis. One of the stories was about a man on a stage hypnosis show that got 'virtually' beheaded, but actually died on stage.

I'm skeptical about that story, but I found it in a book* about stage hypnosis as a word of general caution. ( For some 'non-urban legend grade' examples; http://www.dangers-of-hypnosis.co.uk/dangers_of_stage_hypnosis.html )

Leaving the state of hypnosis, isn't quite synonymous with 'stopping to believe' what was instructed. Sometimes a hypnotist screws up (or causes this intentionally by using a special anchor) and that's when people need much more time to recover and truly become the way they were again.

It can take up to several weeks for some to truly 'wake up' again, without a hypnotist to 'wake them' again. There are also cases known about people that needed special therapy because of psychosis.

It's both a lot more dangerous and at the same time powerful as you seem to think. Which in itself is fine, but your claims are a bit off.

*The New Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnotism

Still saying that everything related to UFOs just happens in people's minds is nonesense though (which is non-disputable as the phenomenom even officially is confirmed). This might apply to lots of sightings of some lights in the sky but the phenomenom of UFOs - being them alien or not - is definitely real. You can stay reluctant on this but things simply don't (always) happen just in people's minds...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

You're the one who's stubborn, insisting there must be an alien relationship, where in reality there's really no evidence for that.

In fact, what do you mean with 'officially confirmed'? Governments keeping records of sightings? You must be kidding me. As long as there isn't a true alien caught or space ship found, it's stupid to insist on the alien explanations. It's crazy.

Well I tried my best to give you examples of evidences and strong indications. As you even seem to refuse the possibility of alien interacton right from the beginning I guess the discussion is futile. Actually you wash away any indications and everything pretty solid gets explained by "people seeing things" or flimsy things about hypnosis and unlikely events without a basis...


As I said and everyone actually should know - the UFO phenomenom itself is undisputable and real. I don't know what else to really say about this part as you must have lived under a rock in order to not acknowledge that. If you didn't know I guess you should inform yourself a bit (as I currently don't feel like pulling up all the reports & videos about that part of the story)...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

I dont think Phemox is actually a non-believer.
From the majority of this thread Ive read, it seems to me that he is one of those people, like myself,
who often get mis-interpreted when they object to people saying things like
"... it IS ..." instead of "... I think it is ..." or "... it LOOKS like ...".
When we hear people taking an "expert" tone without CREDIBLE evidence to back it up, anything
we say then somehow ends up tainted with a very negative tone, because we disagree with
the ATTITUDE rather than the subject matter.
(And, Sorry but I dont accept U-Tube as a "credible" source of FACTS either)

For example, in Toasts last post, he is saying that "the UFO phenomenon itself is undisputable and real".
Im not going to dispute that.

BUT I will dispute that as being PROOF of aliens. After all UFO stands for UNIDENTIFIED Flying Object.
UFO's are there ... no argument, plenty of (usually blurry?) photos.
UFO's are "Objects" ... no argument.
UFO's are "Flying" ... no argument. (even though some are landed)
UFO's are "Unidentified" ... no argument. We have no proof or evidence to what MANY of them are.
(I suspect this is because once we have strong evidence or proof of what it is, ITS NO LONGER UNIDENTIFIED!
and so that particular sighting/evidence is no longer interesting or useful to Alien-hunters / UFO-nuts, etc.)
BUT we have no OFFICIAL publicly-available evidence ANY of them are "Alien" in origin.

So how can you use the "UFO phenomenon" as proof of alien visitation, be it extra-terrestrial or extra-dimensional?
Quite simply.... you cant.
But you CAN say it "..lends much credence to the theory.." of alien visitation.



PS:: Please Note, any insult or offence caused by my comments or phrase-ology is entirely unintentional.
I hereby humbly apologise if any insult or offence was caused.

PPS:: Also note, personally ...
1> I do believe in Extra-terrestrial Intelligence. Its a mathematical certainty IMHO.
2> I highly-doubt (but NOT dis-believe) in Alien "visitation" due to the distances involved.
3> I do believe in the possibility Extra-Dimensional Intellligence.
4> I believe mankinds science to be too un-developed yet to even make an "educated" guesses
about the existance or behaviour of Extra-Dimensional intellligences.

I came up with my comments about the UFO phenomenom itself and in general as PHeMoX drifted into having a "smart-ass explanation" (not meant as insult - don't know how to express it otherwise right now) for everything summed up into things just happening in the people's minds because they are seeing things (one suggested reason being hypnosis)...

At that point I got the impression that we didn't even have a common basis to discuss on which is why I brought the phenomenom itself up. While I'm not 100% sure if he really understood what I meant with that from his recent responses he seems to defy the existence of the phenomenom itself (as I wrote: despite being alien or not). It of course now is futile to discuss the "interpretation" of something the one side doesn't acknowledge after all...


Just a short question because I'm curious: Do you think the Disclosure Project is a hoax because it is on Youtube?


Well in my opinion at least some stories about UFOs etc. actually are about aliens due to the records of very old civilizations which don't describe something one might interpret the one way or the other but plain and simply describe some beings being extraterrestrial which had great influence in either their culture or the story of Creation...

There also are quite some interesting "recent" sources for such a view and I like to link people to the Disclosure Project as it imo is the movement with the highest probability of success in actually uncovering certain things (for everyone) as it's not about some mad men from the street but people you trust your defenses (up to generals there are quite some personalities) or your life with (air-traffic-control) and many more things like that. It's simply too much to ignore in my opinion and the people have too much integrity to ridicule all of them...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

Toast, just because I used a piece of your post, it doesnt mean that I think you are a member
of the "its proof" brigade. It was just a handy example...

As for the post-sparring that you and Phemox are having ... well ... it left me confused.
I dont think you are both arguing about the same point anymore, it just got lost somewhere.

As for your question ... anyone can post stuff on U-Tube, but not everyone can be trusted
to tell the truth, so I cant accept EVERYTHING on UTube to be true.
Nothing on UTube should be trusted to be a fact, but that doesnt mean ignore it all.
As the old expression goes "Read, think, THEN talk...". Treat UTube the same way.
Look at its content, then its presentation, then THINK before you start believing it...
Does it look faked, does the author have something to gain, etcetera...

As for "the Disclosure Project" ... I have no idea. Never heard if it till tonite.
I may take a look for it later, but Im not making any promises.


And in my opinion those records dont count for much, thats just some modern peoples interpretation of them.

You could just as easily look to ancient Egyption records and say that according to them, the pharohs
were actual gods that made the sun rise every day and the river flood for crops.
And the record also say that you know they were gods cause the looked so different to everyone else.

Thats the same 'sort' of proof as the Aztec "spaceship" carvings, for example.
But does anyone today believe the Pharohs actually WERE gods? That the sun and Nile was thier job?
Hell no. We now know that they were just badly inbred, thats why they looked different.

But I'll say again, these are just MY opinions.
It doesnt mean Im right, and it doesnt mean your wrong either.

Ah - ok I see. I thought you also had read the posts in the other topic about that "alien" looking animal thing or whatever it is...


Actually my point went beyond that. There actually is more than looking at some pictures and interpreting things to look like a spaceship or something like that. Especially the Sumerian records are pretty clear. They tell of an alien race coming to earth which actually created mankind. Also in Africa one can find lots of different things - one tribe even claims not to have had contact with "aliens" but that their roots actually are extraterretrial. All those things are nothing "new" but are stories thousands of years old...

I described lots of those things in more detail in the other topic so you may read that up if you're curious...

EDIT:
Oh - actually all the info is in this thread. I thought I was answering in the crop circle topic...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

You're wrong, that's not what would happen! Magnetic shifts happen basically all the time and do not cause the magnetic north to disappear at all. In fact, when looking at these things in perspective (meaning over a long period time, millions of years) it really didn't matter for life on earth at all.



The magnetic field won't disappear.

Poleshifting however is something entirely different and ís of course what the 2012 doomsdayers talk about.



I believe we are talking about the same thing, but he's changing his arguments quite radically at times.

By the way, about planet X. It hasn't been confirmed to be an actual planet at all, it's simply too big for a simple asteroid to be classified as something else and it seems to fit the picture of a tenth planet when it comes to it's trajectory so far. We've only known this 'planet' for 4 years though. (Also it's moving away from us and won't be able to hit us in 2012 at all.)

Here:

Can you give me examples for that? Because I'd disagree on this...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

The magnetic shift and poleshift for example. You had them mixed up in the beginning, but now say you meant the other thing, which is entirely different.

I think there's some more, but lets not make this a who said what issue, as that would be really futile.

I missed EvilSOB's post though, but he made a great point, so lets continue there.



YES. That's exactly true. Of course, a lot of what I am talking about can easily be classified as 'having an opinion' about whatever the other guy says. But most of the time it's quite futile to refute things that were already refuted over and over again. I'm definitely not a 'disbeliever'. There are several reasons why I am usually very interested in these threads, one of them being that I enjoy the thought of not being alone in this universe. Oops, what I mean to say, (nope I'm not alien), is that it would be incredibly exciting from a scientific perspective if we wouldn't be the only advanced life form.

I tend to agree with the mathematics in that in theory it's more or less likely enough for life elsewhere to exist to assume there's sóme form of life on other planets than Earth.



Not a source of evidence, but definitely a source of interesting stories, whether true or false. It's like TV. Probably a whole lot of nonsense, but always entertaining.



Yes, I agree here as well. I don't dispute that people really believe having seen something, or in fact have seen something.



Yes to all of this and especially that last sentence. There really is no true EVIDENCE. Which is why I don't quite accept anyone claiming 'there are aliens' just yet.



I agree. I also think UFO sightings could very well be mankind's own aircraft, but from future times. It's assuming time travel can exist in the future, but from a theoretical point of view, it would make sense to already see 'visitors' from another time. Again though, this is as much 'wild speculation' as the alien theories are. It's also assuming some of those UFO sightings are 'real'. We all know many of them are hoaxes and fakes.




I agree on all points. When it comes to extra-dimensional intelligence, I don't think in terms of 'ghosts' and all that, but I do think we, as beings existing in a 3 dimensional space, possibly won't be able to really grasp or understand how multi-dimensional (>3D) beings would be like, let alone how their existence would work.

It's like explaining to a black dot on a white paper how a 3 dimensional object makes up a pencil that can make black dots. Would a dot be able to easily understand how such things would work, dimensions included? For the black dot on paper, making a pencil strike would look like pure magic from their perspective.

Again, in the end I am just skeptical, but I'm not a disbeliever by default. The very same, believe it or not, is true when it comes to the God questions.

Ok - I understand...


As you're mentioning that now - did you watch the film "What the Bleep do we know?". It's about quantum physics and their meaning and is quite interesting. There also is this animated bonus film which I think is done pretty well and also describes what you just did:
English:
Dr. Quantum - Double Slit Expermint
Dr. Quantum - Flatland

German:
Dr. Quantum - Doppelspalt Experiment
Dr. Quantum in Flachland


Enjoy your meal
Toast

Dr Quantum is cool!

I was familiar with the concepts of "flatland" and the "dual-slit experiment" already.
But I didnt know that the Dual-slit tests had "changed" whrn measured... Wow...

Yes, I've seen both movies from them, but about half-way through the first movie I really couldn't help but wonder why they rip so much out of it's true context.

Basically that movie tries to promote a certain philosophical idea, rather than explain how it all works scientifically. That's a bit of a shame actually.

They sort of go ten steps too far with their extraordinary interpretations.

http://xkcd.com/638/

Well I don't think it's a shame - there's just nothing else one could do here. I've got some small insights in this topic and to say the truth it's something you don't really want to explain to "normal people"...

Especially not as a video that has to fit on one DVD...

So in the end you just can talk of results on a level that has a "trivial" niveau ending up in daily experiences using easy to understand examples. I found the result pretty entertaining and those who aren't too much into science get quite some insights that way like the example with touching the basket ball and telling people they don't ever really touch the ball itself...

Explanations like that are even beyond most good science shows you see on TV (and I'm not talking of weekly shows or something like that)...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

Evilsob, i have to comment, i know you sort of believe.. but i will talk about it.

You said, u tube is not trusted, So i think Google video too, and anyother video hoster!! BEcause thats the only way people can Host thing., for people to see them, otherwise there was no need to post.

Also i saw a discovery channel documentary/program and i think is trust-able,Oh! but its on youtube, ehh. ok i wont be so sarcastic, but. Because what you see on TV is not the truth! its Filtered.. So its easy to think that Gov and other powers censure things.

And you tube is like freedom thats the thing, of course alot of wasted space, but there are good things.

That Discovery thats Yes there is alien space crafts , we studied it, we believe , there is life out there, its a fact. Now like you say ( i never heard of project disclosure) thats sort of ur problem, people have to know things by their own, if they want to. So if i say i know there is ALIEN, its a fact, and im 100% sure, its because i know. Now because you don know, or live hided from the reality, and for you its not a fact, its doest mean that my fact is wrong.

I had contact with ALIEN, i saw i know what i saw, its like some abduction, there are alot of them, and people still questioning, there is UFo?? like Duuhh just because they think that stories are fake? well i saw, my father saw, my ucle saw, in many different situation. And the ship was something like floating 10 meters from me? i dont know any US tecnology like for example.

but i have no fact, i have no pic, but if you there you would know it true.

PS: do you want me to go screea, everywhere, OH GOD.. what go to TV, make myself victim? lool thats just crazy, let live with it.

You had to comment, so I have to reply.

Here is what I believe. Based on my life's experience and intermittant research. I can only state what I believe from
educated conjecture as I have never had a 'close encounter', but I have on many occasions seen 'lights in the sky'.

1> Extra-terrestrial intelligence exists. Ita a mathematical certainty.
2> Extra-terrestrial 'visitations' are possible but EXTREMELY unlikely, due to distances and "needle in a haystack" syndrome.
3> If any Extra-terrestrial 'visitations' HAVE occured, then they will be very rare because they serve little (observable) purpose.
4> Extra-dimensional intelligence is highly likely, based on my own derived theory of the structure of space-time.
5> Extra-dimensional intelligence is likely, based on publicly accepted theory of the structure of space-time.
6> Extra-dimensional 'incursions' are possible but EXTREMELY UNEXPLAINABLE, due to our lack of knowledge/understanding.
The only proof we could gain would be that something solid 'materialised', moved inexplicable, then vanished again.
7> Extra-dimensional 'visitations' by travellers from "another" dimension are nearly impossible. (too long to explain reasoning)

Well, I suppose that pretty much sums up my beliefs in "aliens", most with reasons.

Now, the idea of what is "fact" is debatable.
It wasnt THAT long ago that it was a well-known FACT that the earth was flat, or that the earth was the center of the universe.
PUBLIC fact can be wrong, but they are 'what is generally accepted to be true". Still pretty weak though.
Basically, a FACT is a 'personal opinion' that you have enough 'personally experienced' proof for YOU to consider it FACT.

Now, with 'public release' systems like youtube (and yahoo-video) and the number of hits they get,
any "one-mans fact" can get accepted by millions in time, and a well-produced video can do it fast.
So anyone could put together a Ufo animation in, say, 3DGS.
Use something like Windows Movie Maker to blue-screen it onto live-action video.
Then record that with a handycam aimed at the monitor and post it on youtube, easy...
Almost instant proof that aliens have visited, and stole the Statue of Liberty...

So youtube and the like cant be trusted as proof cause its easy for people to fake for fun.
BUT REAL STUFF IS DEFINATELY IN THERE, somewhere, you just have to use your own intelligence
to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Real TV isnt much better. Its 'facts' are largely based "popular opinion" and
then filtered by the "angle" that the TV station wished to promote.
(please insert 'Government Conspiricy" here if YOU choose to)

So what is all boils down to, I feel, is this.

The word FACT is usually used wrong, and it should be internationally-illegal to be used by ANYONE
unless they hold a (internationally-regognised) university degree or diploma or some-such.

As is stands now, one man's fact is ONLY another man's opinion.

Well i agree of with, i think your a man with brains. People are just different, one have a different way to believe, some people need alot proofs other not, depends alot.

Im not sure about the time travel problem, they (visitors) and i dont mean only Aliens, lol thats a half of it, but actual humans from the future, traveling to now, to fix some things.. like, changing the path of something, that will avoid a World war 3, and if its isn't happened,(now a little of speculation:) maybe its because they fix it, because, the survivurs got alot of mutation, from DNA, that in some centuries, it will cause a massive genetic problem, caused by a NUke, some centuries ago ( which is now) so they just came, to fix it, to change their own future, our future.

And time travel, its a thing that is possible, with portals, its something now yet very well known.
The other way, is... Jump rooms right? like jump rooms to mars, perhaps.
Anyway i must say it. NASA, officially published, a article about..what they found, a sort of portal on the earth atmosphere. Which can teleport matter, sun injectio matter, which they studies the portal dimensions, etc etc.. Which opens every 7 minutes etc etc.. So its possible, it exists, and we can use, it, we just didn't know it.

So most the problems of aliens you stated, will be neutral. and if they are more advanced, why not consider it as a probability.

Alot of same, and only us on earth, well like on the movie , than it would be a wast of space.

Well, thanks for the compliment.
Im unfortunately one of those people who need a lot of proof, connected to other proofs etc, connected to other proofs etc.
"You cant build a solid house without a solid foundation, and you cant have a solid foundation without solid ground beneath."
But I also need a serious amount of proof to DIS-believe in something too. And proof that something DOESNT exist is hard to come by.

As for time-travelling visitors, I almost dis-believe in that, and you may have seen why in the second half of THIS post from another thread.
Its my belief that travelling back in time CANNOT change anything....
After all, knowing human beings, you can be certain that if a time machine exsisted ANYWHERE in time,
then SOMEONE would think "wouldnt the world be a better place if this had been invented 100 years ago?".
He then take the design back and 'invents' it then, AND any other technology required to get it going.
Then someone ELSE from 'then' would think "wouldnt the world be a better place if this had been invented 100 years ago?".
Ad infinitum....
Therefore its likely that IF a time machine were EVER possible, it would already exist everyWHEN.

As for portals, well yes. Ive been under the suspicion that there is a floating 'rip' in space/time that
drifts around inside the Bermuda Triangle. Randomly opening and closing.
And has been for at least as long as shipping records have been kept.

But I dont think the "solar portals" are what they seem. I have a suspicion that the percieved speed of the
flares is not a "portal" as such, but a relativity-effect caused by a mixture of time-dialation and gravity waves.
Im waiting in more "measurements" to be taken before I hypothesize any further.

Regardless of the 'aliens' level of technology, the 'problems' I stated a still apply.
And you may need to read them over again if you think I dont "consider it as a probability".
I just believe that due to the problems stated, it is a very low probability.

And this little snippet as lost me completely. What is it in relation to?

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I guess that's true, but then again, scientific workings and it's evidence isn't exactly what this movie was about, but more so explaining a quite specific philosophical theory, suggesting the evidence for their theory is out there.

That's basically foul play.

A non-scientific person can be easily fooled into believing all those claims are true, where in reality there's a lot to be discovered yet, let alone proven.



True, then again, when science becomes commercial, it's usually a bad thing caused by people with an agenda.



Right, except in that particular movie, quite a lot of things were taken out of context.



Actually, you are touching the ball itself, after all movement changes by forces caused by you. The thing they were trying to explain is the locational existence on a sub-atomic level is something non-deterministic and based on (random) chance.

Obviously the basketball example makes a good visual representation of that idea, but in a practical sense the ball is not really 'everywhere'. (It's perhaps also where a multi-dimensional idea conflicts with our every day practice of a single dimensional life (we can currently only go forward in time, in 3D).)

This and many other examples do take science and change it into something else. (For example the idea that thoughts and / or (mental) energy can influence physical objects and it's behavior as well. Great, but total new age science bs. )



Perhaps, but I think an easy example in most cases can't truly encompass everything a very complex subject is really about. A good teacher makes sure to give an easy example so a student can understand the next steps more easily, but in just about all cases an easy example doesn't change the complexity of the original subject itself. What I'm trying to say is that that movie tries to bend the examples into something that it's not, without being honest about it.

For one the practical implications. For example the basketball idea. IF it would really be both everywhere and nowhere at the same time, you wouldn't be able to even play that game.



You're confusing theories with facts here again. NASA speculates about such things all the time. Doesn't mean there actually IS a portal anywhere. They say the same things about black holes and it's theoretical probability of being a inter-dimensional portal.

I actually meant just the part of really touching the basketball. Like for friction people have this image of a rough surface each object has which intersect each other and so on. While it's not such a big step I found people being surprised that things don't "touch" each other at all because their knowledge usually stops at a mechanical world view...

For their multidimensional existance of the ball I guess you're right and they did a bit too much here although the idea behind it imo gets expressed pretty welll...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

If you think that because on an (sub)atomic level touching something involves positive and negative energy, that you're not really touching the ball, then you're wrong.

Touching something is synonymous to 'interacting' with something. That certainly is happening.

Touching something is usually evident by collision or friction related behavior, yet the workings of physics on a sub-atomic level turns out to work with or involve energy.

That shouldn't be too surprising actually.

Don't forget objects can't have friction by true intersection, as even the smallest mass simply will not allow this to happen.

As a result, it's a bit questionable whether it's valid to think of object collisions and the impacts involved as being a result of two not actually touching objects. There is clearly interaction going on.

Well ok - we now can discuss what "touching" can mean. I meant it in the standard everyday meaning i.e. to objects "touch" each other. In reality the nucleons won't do that though...

There of course is the interaction and what the movie imo does a good job on is to explain that the parts which actually make up the solid shape of the things we know actually won't touch (unless you really want them to but that goes beyond what a person's household should be able to give)...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

When getting back on the topic about aliens / UFOs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2wauxK8RKA

Either real or the best fake I've ever seen...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

The standard everyday meaning is based upon the perception of how two things come into contact and interact. Again it makes no sense to look upon this as two objects not actually touching each other, the interaction is there. It's just how it works on a sub-atomic level.

In a mechanical sense of looking at things things actually touch though - i.e. the distance of the objects' surfaces pretty much goes to zero. The delivered information which people usually don't realize (at least that's my experience) is that such a "touching" won't happen on a sub-atomic level but the interactions happen on a distance...

That's a huge conceptional difference imo - in the one case things interact in some "mechanical" way i.e. the actual masses interact while in the other case all the interaction isn't really done by the involved particles but rather some effects, fields and whatever else there gets "spawned" by the particles is responsible for the interactions. That's quite some leap forward for someone explaining everything with billiard...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

IMHO, it a very well done fake.
Only fails at basically one point I can pick. Its impact with the water is wrong.
When the 'spaceship' dives into the water,
1> the splash 'shape' is wrong for something hitting the water that rapidly.
2> the sound of the splash is instant, no time delay as one would expect from an object 300-500 meters distant.
3> the splash sound is too 'soft', not the 'slap' sound of a solid object hitting water.

But it is certainly one of the better ones Ive seen.

@EvilSOB:
Wenn looking at it very slowly, you can see that its not the "big black thing" which hits the water, but something smaller.

that UFo.. weird.

The Air force killing them ( makes sense)
then UFO, diving into water, but notice the ejecting capsule.
they are so fast, that our eyes can't event see clealry.
The guys emotion and speech is very realistic, i would say there is something there.

And then the Heli saying them to leave..

You can hear the water splash? I tried to for several times now but I hear nothing because the jet engine sound is just too loud...

Concerning the things actually hitting the water - well I can't really say too much about this because if you do some zoomed in stop-motion views you'll see that very much gets lost in compression artifacts...

Currently there is said to be a pilot saying that they really were there shooting something down. I'll see if I can get some trustable info on this...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

( double )

That's a matter of semantics. You're interacting with the object and are touching it, there is interaction going on.

In fact, think of a high speed car crash. Two objects collide with a huge speed. The way the actual touching works simply is like that. On a sub-atomic level, where's the boundary of an object anyway if it's magnetic field and all that is such a vital factor? What makes up the actual mechanical shape or surface that you would consider 'actually touching' something? There's no such thing.

I think it's a bit strange to think of this as an entirely new concept. We've simply figured out how it works 'underneath' the surface.

After all, if thís is not considered a physical and actual touch, then nothing is. Billiard balls collide and change directions and yet you're going to claim they don't really touch even though the result proves there has been a big interaction?

I think the conceptual change here is more so the meaning of the word touching something and much less what actually happens during a collision.

Interesting bit of extraterrestrial theories in "scientific circles":
http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2007/01/08/01288.html

Enjoy your meal
Toast

Help!
(Sounds like the 'designer vs evolution' discussions.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hYhmyaU5ng&feature=player_embedded
Japan's government now officially announces the existance of UFOs as something real and wants to give further details concerning political and military / defense consequences later. Pretty much goes hand in hand with afaik a Japanese defense minister demanding military strategies against UFOs...

Japan has quite some open way of handling such topics anyway. If I'm not mistaken the empress (?) officially told stories of her having UFO sightings and even contact with extraterrestrials...

EDIT:
Oh and a recent & interesting alien video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHh4XOt9SEs

Imo a well done fake due to a body "not being right" and imo the shadow goes missing at the point it starts going off screen and shortly before the clip showing it ends...

EDIT2:
The video about the japanese government isn't recent but from 2007...

Enjoy your meal
Toast