3d realms is dead, forget about the duke being forever

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58519

So Duke Nukem forever will probably be "for never".
And I feel very sorry to not see Prey 2, I was really looking forward to it.

No! It can't be! Why?!

Yeah, that's too bad. Hopefully they all find good work elsewhere.

why prey2.. WHY!!!!

Really hoping they find new Jobs.. and Prey will be given to another team ^^

the fist game I buy for pc
duke nukem 3d
I play multiplayer with a friend use direct call
with a modem

I miss 3d realm

edit: search by internet is confirmed
duke nukem forever if dead

http://duke.a-13.net/

one of my first games on PC...

It's a sad day in gaming history. It seems to be quite true at this time.

I don't buy into the '3DRealms was just stress testing Epic's engines' with DNF though. That ex-employee can't really be trusted, as he also claims to have been nearly beat up by people from Epic during the E3 2001.

If it were a marketing stunt though, I am guessing the website wouldn't be down and the forums wouldn't have 'server too busy' errors popping up all the time.

I'd definitely rather believe it to be a marketing stunt. Especially because the webmaster has a habit of blowing things up being usually left out of the loop when it comes to the real info. (For example back when Duke Nukem Manhattan got released)

Of course, unfortunately it doesn't look like a hoax to me either.

R.I.P 3DRealms.

Lets hope DNF gets released eventually by Take2 though.

i don't even know what to say
sad day for gamers everywhere.

Why? Because console gaming has been killing the game industry since the ps2.

So sad...

No, this is not the reason. Here you can find an article by the name: "The PC is Rapidly Becoming the Largest Gaming Platform "
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58497

The reason are the online channels. The PC is just more flexible and entered some new markets. Boxed products are not the future.

But what happened to 3d Realms? we can only guess. Maybe too many managers, no milestones, bad project management?

There's only one reason; no more financial investors. 3DRealms used to be as independent as corporately possible :P , especially after the success of Max Payne (2001) combined with the previous 3DRealms games, they were easily able to develop for years without any additional investors. Those early 5 very happy years have ended about 4 years ago I think, meaning they've mainly been dependent on financial investors for the last few years. I'm guessing with the economic crisis and all, they just couldn't get anyone to invest in a product with such a notorious name within the industry.

Again, it's a very very sad day. I'm hoping some publisher will give the game yet another chance though. Prey was good, Duke Nukem 3D was awesome and even Duke Nukem Manhattan Project was great fun to play, however much it had budget-game written all over. By the looks of the 2001 trailer and the 2009 trailer, the game has come a long way.

Even if skeptics (read:ex-employees) always have claimed these trailers were demos to showcase the game idea that existed on paper only, meaning no real levels were made, no real gameplay even existed. I sure hope this ain't true as it would support yet another conspiracy theory involving Epic and 3Drealms Unreal engine support,

Cheers

Ich denke, dass das aus von 3D-Realms erheblich mit dem nicht erschienenen Duke Nukem Forever zu tun hat.

Ich meine, ich persönlich warte schon darauf, seit es DUKE3D gab. Wie oft wurde denn der Termin verschoben? Wie viel Geld hat ein Investor in die Firma gesteckt und kein Release bekommen? Wie oft wurde denn die Engine gewechselt.

Ich finde es schade. Gerade Spiele wie Duke, Shadow Warrior oder Max Payne waren sehr sehr gute Spiele. 3D-Realms hatte aber einen Milestone. Der Bullet Time Effect von Max Payne 2 z.B.

Naja. R.I.P 3D-Realms. Ich hoffe irgendjemand erbarmt sich und gibt nochmal Geld. (Wir könnten es wie die Star Trek Fans machen, die Geld gespendet hatten, damit Paramount nochmal ein paar Folgen drehen konnten^^)

Sehr schade, wirklich. Vor ein paar Monaten noch waren ja Spielszenen aus Duke Nukem Forever zu sehen, in so einer amerikanischen Spielesendung (hab gerade den Namen vergessen).
Da war das Statement noch "es existiert wirklich", Hoffnung kam auf...
Zu schade.
R.I.P 3D-Realms.

Ist echt schade, Duke Nukem war auch der erste Shooter den ich je spielte. Und dann stundenweise im Multiplayer...

Aber irgendwie kommts nicht ganz so unterwartet für mich. Wer eine Marke wie Duke Nukem so lange herumliegen lässt oder dann so halbherzig mal wieder was meldet, kann einfach über längere Zeit nicht bestehen. Ich will denen ja keine Absicht unterstellen, aber wie das über Jahre so ablaufen kann, ist schon etwas verdächtig.
Aber fertig ist's mit Duke Nukem ja nicht, die Rechte gehn jetzt an Take 2.

In Sachen Max Payne. Dieses Games würde ich jetzt eher Remedy anrechnen als 3D Realms. Obwohl klar, die waren die Producer, aber so richtig etwas das an Duke Nukem anknüpfen könnte ist von 3D Realms einfach nie gekommen, und die Frage nach dem warum wird ja jetzt vielleicht mal beantwortet...

Uhm ... if the thread began in English, it needs to continue in English (as a courtesy).

Yes, it is a sad day, indeed. Good-bye, Duke!

Thank you dan, it does say in the forum rules

Sure now it is, and for good reason, the pc has more potential than the console, but console gaming and the influx of the moronic casual games has killed many a good title.

Gaming itself is still going down the tubes because of them, I don't need any article of yours to prove it, I can simply look at what the market has to offer.

Every wasted dime on console games could be put into pc games and therefore produce better competition on the superior platform. Its just basic Darwinian economics.

I blame consoles and all the little boys that play them for the loss of dear Duke Nukem forever and precious prey 2.

As you said now instead of duke nukem forever it is duke nukem NEVER

Since when has Max Payne been 3D Realms game? All these years believing that Remedy was behind it...

Wow, that was unexpected....no really....totally unexpected....pfffff

hey, wait.. did i get it right that they developed on it now for 12 years? who really wants to pay that team?? but i may miss something else important, that could be

Many people even pre-ordered this game:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Duke-Nukem-Forev...0575&sr=8-1

however, i dont really wonder why they closed down

I just read that Apogee is not affected. They are developing a Duke Nukem Trilogy for handhelds right now.

Apogee is the real primary rock in game development and game publishing.

That's nonsense, Apogee has only been recently resurrected from the grave, nothing 'rock solid' about that 'studio'. Basically 3DRealms' people resurrected that studio with like half of their people anyways.

Yeah, which is a tad odd if the game would really be finished enough for a 30 september 2009 release. I'm hoping it's nearly done already, but I fear not.

Sorry.

It is not nonsense:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apogee

Scott Miller founded Apogee and was part of 3d Realms as well. He was the first one creating shareware, he published Wolfenstein 3d, the Nuke titles and was the first one distributing games via a bulletin board system (this was before the internet existed).
And Scott is still involved in Apogee.

I cant find nonsense here. This is what you can call a primary rock (Urgestein) or maybe an industry dinosaur.

Name apogee reminds me the game, Raptor:<i cant remember that part>, a topdown scrolling shooter... good old days was one of my first games.

sorry for ot.

Wacky Wheels rocked so much

You're wrong there, that's what I am saying. Between 1996 and 2008 Apogee did not even exist. Yes, it was founded in 1987, but it was resurrected in 2008 (!). I'd give you the link explaining 3DRealms' and Apogee's history by year, but unfortunately 3DRealms.com is down.

Cheers

It is still Scott Miller, the pioneer of game development.
Again: his company (Apogee) is not affected by the downfall of 3d Realms. And this company will continue to work on the Duke trilogy on handhelds.

You can read this in big red letters here (among other articles):
http://kotaku.com/5243324/3d-realms-situation-wont-affect-duke-nukem-trilogy-apogee

And there is no problem if I call them a primary rock. It is the same company. Just think about the word resurrected and its meaning. It is the re-birth of the same company.

It's not the same, that's what I'm trying to say. Lol, stubborn? :P

Sure you can call them whatever you want, but a company that technically did not exist for many years in between can't rightfully be credited for 'still being around, still going strong'.

It's like saying Atari did a great job still existing, happily ignoring it has been gone for like 3 times or so.



If it were the same company it would have been bankrupt just like 3DRealms. But it's not the same company. The term 'resurrected' was coined by the new founders themselves and what it really means is that Apogee as a name got resurrected.

Until a few days ago 3DRealms and Apogee co-existed. Can't call it the same company then now can you? :P

This Apogee really isn't quite the same as Apogee/3DRealms from the old days. In fact, their focus on handhelds and mobile phones is proof enough for that.

Lol, nitpicking? :P

I will stop here because you start the same offtopic spam like always.

By the way: The website of 3d-Realms is online again. They say goodbye:
http://www.3drealms.com/index.html

The dev-rules of 3d-Realms are interesting. Looks like you can find some reasons for their going down.
http://www.3drealms.com/press/devrule.html

Among others they write:
"Apogee and 3D Realms are run by Miller and Broussard respectively, and both have a long history in development. Miller and Broussard, friends in the late 1970's, ..."

It looks like Miller and Broussard dont share Phemox' definition of a different Apogee

It's not spam, apparently you just can't take any kind of serious critique on your comments. You should grow some skin. I wasn't even making fun of you either, so what's up with that comment of yours? Really...

Anyways, it's why Apogee is not affected by the collapse of 3DRealms even though it's partly the same bunch of people.

I wasn't talking about the same group of people, I was talking about the same company. Apogee 2008 isn't the same as the Apogee founded in 1987, only in name it got resurrected. Yes, some people of the original Apogee are back, but that wasn't the point. Apogee and 3DRealms co-existed, but not in the old days. In the old days Apogee became 3DRealms.



No, you've misunderstood. That's where they talk about the old Apogee, their publishing name, that disappeared when they decided to go with the 3DRealms brand name instead.

Really, they talk about it as two different companies themselves by the time they mention the resurrection of Apogee. (Which they actually don't mention on the page you've linked to)

Anyways, it's really to bad that chances are slim we will ever see DNF released.

Ok, this was an interesting discussion in my thread so far despite some sidetracking.

So let me sum it up:

• 3d Realms is dead (unfortunatelly), I feel sorry for all the employees
• Nobody of us knows about the future of DNF.
• Apogee has recently been resurrected (while resurrecting means "reviving the same object" in my dictionary)
• Apogee is mainly the same company like before, because
  a) it has the same name
  b) the same people are behind it
  c) it still makes similar games (but for mobile platforms now)
  d) it still shares the same vision (creating games for small growing markets)

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/316675.html?playlist=featured#comments_top
*Cries*

It's not that much but it actually is right what I would have expected from DNF...
Let's hope that Take2 will order another studio to finish this and let's hope further it's not going to be mainstreamized and turning out as another Gears of War...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

they probably sell project to someone else

Right, except in this case Apogee got 'resurrected' while 3DRealms still was alive, meaning it can't be the same company. That's what the discussion was about, not whether or not Apogee is the same name as the old Apogee or something.



Nope, it's not. Unless Apogee will continue development of DNF for the PC platform, it seems to have an entirely different focus. Consoles and mobile phones for crying out loud... :P

Cheers

No. I explain it again:

They developed 2d action games for a growing market, the first shareware games for pc. And now they make the same games for mobile platforms. It fits perfectly to their experience and their vision, it will be a similar gaming experience and they can use their knowledge and development experiences.

They made the Duke 2d games and now they make it again. It is perfectly the same focus, the same vision.

Other comapanies changed their focus from pc to consoles and mobiles as well and do not come up with a new name and a new company. No need.
Besides that it is was the decision of George and Scott. The world has to accept it

I'm actually a bit surprised by the ingame footage.
It's far from showing a good game or giving away any story parts, but I think there are some good sections, and it does feel kind of familiar.

Until know I didn't think they could really make this work and bring Duke Nukem to modern graphics and gameplay, but it might have worked out.

I liked the video pretty much. I noticed some section which seem to be taken from the original Duke 3D and then revamped.

It's time to chew ass and kick bubblegum... oh wait.... sth seems to be wrong here.

You couldn't have been more contradicting there. They actually did exactly that, change their focus from a PC market to consoles and mobile phones. That's a significant change for a company that has largely been known for their PC platform action games.

Making 2D games has never been a real focus point in that early period anyways. There practically were no 3D games! In fact, their main focus has always been platformer action games. And you are ignoring the fact that in the Duke Nukem Trilogy there will be Duke Nukem 3D as well.. which is actually part 3 in the series.

Just because they release some of their older games (some of which are actually 3DRealms titles), doesn't mean their focus is now 2D remakes.

Anyways, I am growing tired of this, you're just wrong and I'll leave it at that.

Phemox, an absolute statement like "You are just wrong, I'll leave it at that" is not only ignorant but arrogant as well (the statement, not you as a person ) it is also an emotional exaggeration like women often do. The reason is:

If we are really honest and not such anti-guys then we would easily see, that the truth lies something in between, here are the facts:

pro (same company):
- same name
- same people behind it
- same duke platformer games
- they call it "resurrection"

contra:
- there was a break
- there is a transition

I have no problems with breaks. Transitions are a natural process. I already mentioned that many companies changed their focus to other platforms, most big publishers are releasing now on consoles without changing their names. It is not needed. There is no law to change your company name if you change your business focus.

Besides that you created a constructed personal and subjective logic. I think most of us tolerate and accept it, since it is your personal meaning.

Okey, I'll respond as it's actually interesting to some extent;



I am not going to nitpick about the 'facts' you've decided to post , but basically you've sort of said the same thing but interpreted it way differently.

It wasn't an attack to your view, but I just know 3DRealms and some of them who are now in Apogee explained their own words differently on the forums over there.

They chose the words 'resurrection' because of the fact that they would release the old Duke series again and use the old name Apogee. Not because they changed their market of choice and went on to create games for the mobile phone and console market.



I respectfully wonder what you are talking about here? I made a rather specific comment. You seemed to speculate the heck out of a non-specific post on Apogee in your later reply that wasn't even about the company's history nor future. It's a bit strange to wave this away as being 'my opinion'. :p

I very much respect you, but I simply said I disagreed and later on explained why. Apparently you didn't follow or as you've said yourself weren't even open to my point of view.



Yes and it was supposed to be exactly like that as a direct response to the arrogance in your previous comment. I didn't mean 'leave it at that' as in 'I'll go cry in a corner now' though. :P



However natural, it does imply a change.



No, but you've just made a biased comment with that view in mind. Because a change of focus is exactly what Apogee did when they decided to go with 3DRealms as their new name back in the days and if mobile phones and (handheld)consoles is the new primary focus for the new Apogee they definitely did so again.

Also mind you that I never actually said they 'must' have changed their focus, I only said they said they would release games on different platforms now. We're talking about a company with quite a legacy when it comes to the PC market, so this seemed significant to me.

Anyways, it has been a fun discussion, but lets not argue about the argument for the sake of having the last word. It makes no sense.

By the way, there's a rumor going around the internet that Duke Nukem Forever will still be released. The optimists even think it might be released this summer as originally planned, as Take-2 apparently thinks it's worth investing in. Again, only a rumor, but who knows..

Cheers

seems you two enjoy the argument more than caring about the topic. although you can keep going because its fun to watch.

Thanks locstclimate, but I think everything has been said. There is no absolute truth and the facts are laid down.

To come back to DNF:
I also can imagine that it might survive. This is pure speculation. But if a company is dead then the creditors want their money back. And they might sell whatever can be sold to other parties. Maybe they sell the DNF license to any potent studio. Who knows. We will see.

You've said before that evrything has been said


There's a lot of rumors going on currently.
The most interesting one is the one consisting of following facts:
- Microsoft recently released the original Duke on Xbox live
- E3 is going to start soon
- 3DR had a huge and certainly not inexpensive BBQ just a few weeks before this announcement

Rumors go that the death of 3D Realms is just a marketing hoax.
Microsoft has bought 3DR or at least obtained rights for DNF and is going to annoucne this on E3.
The huge BBQ looked more liek a release party than a goodbye.

DNF is now back in everyone's mind, that's an ideal start to release a product.

Now that would really be crazy, and I can't really believe it, but the idea is interesting


This rumor was not my idea, I read it somewhere else.

Firoball:
I had this idea a few times as well. And the fact, that DNF should release very soon underlines this idea. But actually I could not imagine that they will go this far.

Maybe you (and your sources) are right and we get a really interesting surprise. It would be a really crazy marketing campaign and almost everybody will know about this game then.

But on the other hand, they released their staff. How can they fake this?

We will see and expect upcoming information with some optimism.

They can finish the paid job and the contract end?

:-)

If this is true then it would be completely finished and there will be no add-on, no second part. It sounds not real to me.

http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/981/981847p1.html

Yeah, but Take-2 already owns the DNF license when it comes to publishing. It's a non-financial contract though as 3DRealms has always operated independent. I don't think there are any creditors that still must get money back, I just think the money well dried up.

The BBQ thing made me wonder as well how things really are financially... it makes no sense to some extent.

The intellectual property belonged to 3dr till to the end and could be sold. Yes, they are told to pay out of their own wallets but they also asked often to get money. Lately they wanted to have credits over 5 mio. They got even an offer for 30 mio but with the need to sell the ip. Probably they did not sign this.

You can read more about these details at some fan pages of DNF.

I have no idea what happens with this ip. We will see.
But the fact is: They were able to get money. So why did they decide to let it die instead of taking this money? Is it really a joke or are they a bit pig-headed regarding this project?

Those fanpages are usually stuffed with nonsense though; beyond reasonable doubt there's literally zero information that's even plausible to have come from 3DRealms themselves. It's only rumors.

3DRealms has always been independent enough to still cover salaries with lots of zeroes involved. Why financial problems right now? A huge BBQ and party? No problem. Even a party to celebrate DNF's upcoming release was already planned or perhaps that BBQ was exactly that?

Anyways, 3DRealms already sold the license to publish many many years ago, this is a well known fact, said by 3DRealms themselves. They obviously still got the IP and don't intend to ever sell that.

But Take-Two, who was going to publish DNF, is going to sue Apogee for all this, apparently they're not to happy about their 12 million dollar investment (for publishing only, no financial contract) disappearing in thin air.

I think it's obvious Apogee has been definitely thinking about either yet another restart of DNF or simply a continuation of development of 'their' product; otherwise they really really would have sold the IP for that title a very long time ago.

I don't think releasing DNF is their top priority anyways, I think they still want to release 'when it's done' like they've always said.

Anyways, I am quite sure it's not a joke, even though the websites are back online. Of course, I'd be glad if I turn out to be wrong about that as I don't know either. It would be crazy though if it turns out to be a marketing thing.

It is funny that you call a lot of other postings nonsense but then a lot of your posts start with "I think...", "I am quite sure...", "I'd be.."

It is no problem to make some guessings here in my thread. But it is not kind and not fair to beat other peoples guessing down (like these fan page guys with probably much more specific knowledge about this game like you have).
This is why people could read some arrogance into your postings.

I am personally a bit tired of guessing and will just wait what happens with DNF, T2 and Apogee.

There's a real difference though, but actually I'm getting tired of explaining. It's got little to do with arrogance, because if two sources say something radically different, obviously both can't be right.

A simple deduction and especially comparison of sources makes it clear as a daisy to me that some people on fan pages, as always happens on such pages, speculate like crazy with no real good reason.

I never said everything on fan pages is nonsense either. So really, it's a bit unfair to act as if I said that.
Also what's up with the 'my thread' kind of business anyways, last time I checked this is not your forum. It's really kind of immature to even mention that you've started this thread, which is perfectly fine with me by the way. Keep posting nice threads. Again, I don't have issues with you, but you keep getting frustrated about my comments for some strange reason.



But what's wrong with that? It's common language to indicate the kind of expected certainty about what is being said. By all means, contrary to many people on those fan pages, I don't actually make up rumors and claim it's the absolute truth.

Cheers

Now now, Phemox and Frank. Just chill out now. No need to get angry at each other when you are really angry about DNF dropping. If you two really want to bash each others posts, please go to the PM. It looks a lot like threads today.

Also, this thread will get locked if all this is about how certain things are wrong yet wrong and wrong about all wrongness between you two.

This isn't even a warning anymore.

Thanks, and have a nice day

*shrugs shoulders*

In other news, Miller, the founder of 3DRealms responded to the Take-Two lawsuit. Seems they are going to start a real fight. Take-Two even want to get a copy of the source code of DNF (as far as it's completed) so Apogee can't sell it to anyone. They even want 'security measures' being taken for all that, can you imagine? A lockdown because of code.

According to Miller though, Take-Two never actually paid 12 million dollars (even though it was in the contract).

I'm curious to where this will end though.

No, it was not in the contract. The deal was between GT Interactive and Take-Two. 3DR was not part of it. Here is the whole story:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/duke-nukem-dev-3d-realms-not-closing

In this link they mention that 3dr still has "certain rights" to publish DNF. Whatever this means.
And they talk about re-grouping the dev-team.

Yeah, I read an article of rockpapershotgun.com about this also. Seems you might be right there.

Actually, the whole thing is getting more confusing now. I do think Take-Two owns at least something:

"Over twelve years later, its development team was let go due, according to 3D Realms, to a change in the game's publishing agreement that left the studio unable to pay its employees."

.. pretty strange for such an independently operating studio if you ask me.

Of course, then there's the fact court ruling; "The court denied Take-Two's request for a temporary restraining order."

Recently Miller claimed the 12 million dollar was never paid. He was implying there was a contract, but Take-Two just never came through with the money. Of course, because it has been an indirect contract, 3DRealms can still do as they please with their franchise I think. Good for 3DRealms actually and it makes sense they never received the money (as GT Interactive would have gotten it anyways).

The weird thing is that despite sort of an official statement that 3DRealms is no more, they are still alive and kicking. They just had to 'send people home' as they have no money anymore for DNF development.

To be honest it is starting to look like a marketing thing after all. The very moment a bag with money arrives, they'll be back in business as usual, just mark my words.

He's back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CwHzclyYnI&feature=player_embedded

3D Realms isn't closing. They've still got lots games in production in some form or another.

you gotta be shittin me...

Haha I had the same reaction!

The IP itself is too much worth to let it die.
(like a maturing wine)
Some studio will develop it soon or later.
And release it when its done.

Even if its crap, people will buy it, simply to
finally have bought it...

They should somehow get their things together, and
sell the IP to a studio that can create the game.

The graphics, effects (the explosions for instance) and sounds are really bad IMO, it looks like 2005. Is this a current gameplay video or fan-made? I don't get it...
The gameplay looks below-average, too.

EDIT: When he is close to a weapon on the ground, the message
"Press ( ) to pick up..."
appears. What is the red ( ) in the video? It looks like the (B) Button from a XBox 360 controller.

But this video really reminds me on the old Duke experience. I like it.

The gameplay is ok, it is a shooter, what else do we expect from a shooter? I only hope that the hero will not heal automagically when taking cover behind a crate like these modern shooters do. This is such a crap, just to satisfy the mainstream.

that is so true. unfortunately.