The end of Z5

Posted By: Thirstywolf

The end of Z5 - 01/15/15 10:28

Well I take it everyone else just got violated on Z5 as well?

JCL, will Z5 get replaced with another strategy?

Also, I notice that my biggest losses came from Z5 trying to take longs well below the 1.20 level. Can I suggest that in hindsight a break below 1.20 means the floor is most likely gone, and the system should not enter new trades there.

Hope we all didn't get too burnt.

Thanks.
Posted By: yosoytrader

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/15/15 10:29

Swiss Central Bank removes euro cap
Posted By: boatman

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/15/15 10:57

That was amazing! I hope Z5 was heavily short and you guys booked some mega profits!!
Posted By: molloy

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/15/15 11:17

It seems that this is not the case:

http://www.myfxbook.com/members/sphin/zorro-z5/837317
Posted By: 3DCat

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/15/15 12:10

that sucks. I thought you cannot loose more than your account balance with fxcm, or so they advertize. but sphins z5 is way below zero. Is that correct?
Posted By: jcl

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/15/15 12:31

You normally not even lose all your account balance because you keep the open margin in case of a margin call. That was of importance today.

Stop Z5 and Z4 now. They should have stopped themselves anyway due to the stop slider. They could have taken large profits today when margin was left on the account after the peak down. Here's one of my Z5 logs from this morning:

Code:
[Thu 15.01.15 08:57]  8707 +600 -300 0/3/36
[Thu 15.01.15 09:57]  4610 +600 -28488 0/3/36
{EUR/CHF::l9801} Sell 895@0.00000: -896094$ at 09:56
Closed by Stop slider
{EUR/CHF::l} Long 895@1.1784 Entry stop
{EUR/CHF::l4802} Sell 622@0.00000: -622744$ at 09:56
Closed by Stop slider
{EUR/CHF::l} Long 622@1.1784 Entry stop
{EUR/CHF::l9803} Sell 600@0.00000: -600699$ at 09:56
Closed by Stop slider
{EUR/CHF::l} Long 600@1.1784 Entry stop
Broker: Broker closed 45987447
[EUR/CHF::L7447] Sell 895@0.00000: -274$ at 09:56
Broker: Broker closed 46080944
[EUR/CHF::L0944] Sell 622@0.00000: -1297$ at 09:56
Broker: Broker closed 46171400
[EUR/CHF::L1400] Sell 600@0.00000: -1146$ at 09:56
{EUR/CHF::l} Entry stop 1.1771 hit at 10:01
{EUR/CHF::l0904} Long 895@1.1771 Risk 76997$ ptl at 10:00
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Long 895@1.1771 Net trade at 10:00
{EUR/CHF::l} Entry stop 1.1771 hit at 10:01
{EUR/CHF::l0905} Long 622@1.1771 Risk 53510$ ptl at 10:00
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Long 622@1.1771 Net trade at 10:00
{EUR/CHF::l} Entry stop 1.1771 hit at 10:01
{EUR/CHF::l0906} Long 600@1.1771 Risk 51618$ ptl at 10:00
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Long 600@1.1771 Net trade at 10:00
{EUR/CHF::l0904} Stop 895@1.0739: -85902$ at 10:13
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367563
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Can't close 895@1.0739 at 10:13
{EUR/CHF::l0905} Stop 622@1.0739: -59700$ at 10:13
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367563
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367563
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Can't close 895@1.0739 at 10:13
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367627
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0739 at 10:13
{EUR/CHF::l0906} Stop 600@1.0739: -57588$ at 10:13
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367563
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367563
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Can't close 895@1.0739 at 10:13
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367627
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0739 at 10:13
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367631
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367631
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Can't close 600@1.0739 at 10:13
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367563
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367563
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Can't close 895@1.0739 at 10:13
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367627
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0739 at 10:13
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367631
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367631
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Can't close 600@1.0739 at 10:13
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367563
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Can't close 895@1.0656 at 10:19
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367627
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0656 at 10:19
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367631
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367631
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Can't close 600@1.0656 at 10:19
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367563
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Can't close 895@1.0453 at 10:21
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367627
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0453 at 10:21
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367631
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367631
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Can't close 600@1.0453 at 10:21
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - Cannot place more than one order of this type for each trade: 164339924@20216780

Broker: Close order failed 46367563
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Can't close 895@1.0433 at 10:24
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0436 at 10:24
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367631
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Can't close 600@1.0431 at 10:25
Broker: Broker closed 46367563
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Sell 895@1.0433: +3888$ at 10:28
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0455 at 10:28
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367631
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Can't close 600@1.0444 at 10:29
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0484 at 10:33
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367631
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Can't close 600@1.0469 at 10:34
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0422 at 10:39
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367631
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Can't close 600@1.0423 at 10:40
[EUR/CHF::L4235] Sell 622@1.0410: +359$ at 10:46
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Sell 600@1.0410: +9718$ at 10:47

[Thu 15.01.15 10:57]  43356 +11848 +0 0/0/36
[Thu 15.01.15 11:57]  43304 +11848 +0 0/0/36



The day started with EUR 8,707 on the Z5 account, and ended with EUR 43,304. Inbetween there was a margin call, followed by an equity peak at 280,000 EUR - not visible in the log but according to FXCM TS. It was not a real profit because the trades could not be closed, and the entry prices were probably wrong.

The EUR dropped to 0.8 CHF after the announcement, causing a margin call of my account with two Z5 instances. Both Z5 and the broker closed all trades. The two Z5 systems then immediately opened several new long trades due to the low-volatility algorithms. Strangely, FXCM accepted the trades. The EUR went then further down, then up again, but FXCM refused to close the new trades - you can see the many close attempts in the log. They finally closed at 1,04, putting EUR 43K on the account.

This was of course a lucky outcome, often brokers reject all trades at extreme volatility peaks. It's quite possible that this was no good day for other Z5 users.

Currently FXCM seems not to accept any EUR/CHF trades.

We have to declare Z5 officially dead now. At least unless they'll place a new CHF cap.
Posted By: Sphin

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/15/15 14:28

Then I had not enough money on my account ...
Posted By: DdlV

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/15/15 16:59

What a way to start the day... frown

Both Zorro and TS now show a large negative balance/equity. Is this real and I now owe FXCM bunches of $$$? Or does FXCM stand by their can't lose more than is in the account and will reconcile the account & therefore TS somehow?

Also, why did Z5 try to enter new trades with balance < $0?

Lastly, Z12 took a bath too on USD/CHF trades - anyone else see that also?

Thanks.
Posted By: Sphin

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/15/15 18:02

I hope FXCM will fulfill their announcment - they write it often enough on their website that there is no subsequent payment obligation. My Z12 was also effected by losses of USD/CHF but it was nothing compared with Z4/Z5.
Posted By: molloy

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/15/15 19:15

FXCM writes in the risk warning that a negative equity can happen but does not mean you have to pay. You can loose all of your money but no more. It happened to me too.

"Although the margin call feature is designed to close positions when account equity falls below the margin requirements, there may be instances when liquidity does not exist at the exact margin call rate. As a result, account equity can fall below margin requirements at the time orders are filled, even to the point where account equity becomes negative. This is especially true during market gaps or volatile periods. FXCM will not hold traders responsible for deficit balances in this scenario, but clients should be cognizant that all funds on deposit in an account are subject to loss. FXCM also recommends that traders use Stop orders to limit downside risk in lieu of using a margin call as a final stop."

http://www.fxcm.com/legal/trading-execution-risks/
Posted By: Finstratech

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/16/15 13:27

Attention all affected by suspension of euro cap: this caused some brokers to close. FXCM will likely be one of them.
Read in forum section "Zorro and the Brokers" here
Posted By: ibra

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/18/15 16:33

Hmmm, can anyone enlighten me on how this change in CHF could have such impact on the market, and on the brokers?

Hmm, speaking of which, when I look at the USD/CHF chart now, I guess that the gap is the problems. The ones who had long positions really got kinda screwed. Is that the reason for some brokers having problems, FXCM amongst others?
Posted By: Sphin

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/18/15 19:02

FXCM just closed all trades of my Z12 account and transferred the resulting money complete to my Z4 account, although I have an email of my contact person at FXCM, that they won't do such a cross clearing between accounts - I just asked this question before I became a FXCM customer.
Posted By: DdlV

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/18/15 19:23

Hi Sphin. Yes, the games are apparently on / not done. frown Can you post the email?

FXCM has just done the same to me. It's even weirder, though. FXCM also closed all trades in a different account in a different subsidiary and has not (yet?) transferred those funds anywhere.

I also don't understand how they justify doing this, since their written policy is by ACCOUNT, not by CLIENT.

jcl, have you seen this same behavior with your accounts? Presuming that you have better contacts than we at FXCM, what's going on?

Thanks.
Posted By: Sundance

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/18/15 20:19

Wow. That is really weird. My Z12 account still seems to be alive...
How can they just close all trades? That is no professional behavior.
Posted By: Sphin

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/18/15 21:10

Now my Z3 is also grounded the same way and cross cleared with another account. DdlV, I only have the mail traffic in german, I don't know if it is useful for you or good to post it here. Yes Sundance, that's the next point, destroying running strategies is not really the fine way.
But I never would have opened several accounts at FXCM if I knew that they behave this way. There are so many brokers on the market where I could use Zorro at least via the MT4 bridge and they all want customers. Therefore I asked FXCM explicitly before I did what I did. That's really big shit now.
Posted By: jcl

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/18/15 22:03

I have not seen this effect on my FXCM accounts, but they had mostly been overcapitalized - even the Z5 account had still capital after the margin call. I know that another one of our developers also had only one of his FXCM accounts affected.

It depends on your contract. Contracts are usually per client, not per account, so it definitely makes sense to open accounts with different brokers. Still, different accounts can only be affected when the contracts allows that you're charged for a negative balance.

Currently it looks as if FXCM had survived that mishap.
Posted By: Sphin

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/18/15 23:05

Quote:
it definitely makes sense to open accounts with different brokers.

Maybe it makes sense to take this as a recommendation into the tutorial to prevent other users from such a disaster.
Posted By: Thirstywolf

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/19/15 02:14

Ibra


The problem is that forex brokers are not really brokers. As much as they try to label themselves as that, they are still really market makers. There is no exchange traded forex (unless you count futures contracts), so every time you make a forex trade, at some point your broker is taking the other side of that trade, even if only for a few milliseconds. They have to keep quoting prices as per their commitments around spread, so when the markets are going nuts, these guys are still giving some fills(or your account is going negative), however in this case, a lot of them where not actually able to hedge off the exposure anywhere else.
Posted By: DdlV

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/19/15 08:40

jcl, are ALL of your accounts overcapitalized and NONE went negative balance?

Anyone else have an FXCM account that went negative balance? It's hard to believe that only Sphin & I are the "lucky" ones...

Thanks.
Posted By: jcl

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/19/15 16:46

At least one of our developers also had negative balance, but with a different broker, not FXCM. You can see in the log that I posted what happened with my Z5 account. My other FXCM accounts had no EUR/CHF trades and were unaffected.
Posted By: DdlV

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/19/15 19:01

Thanks jcl.

How overcapitalized do you trade? 2x CR? 5x? Order(s) of magnitude more?

Also, what about USD/CHF? As I said, I was actually hurt as bad / worse in Z12 via USD/CHF...

Thanks.
Posted By: molloy

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/20/15 09:03

I also have negative balance at fxcm, I have lost 3x the original amount on my account.

Fortunately my other accounts at fxcm are not under my name so they will not be able to cross-clear.
Posted By: GPEngine

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/23/15 15:45

http://leaprate.com/2015/01/fxcm-letter-to-clients-to-repay-negative-balances/
Posted By: Sphin

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/23/15 18:56

Yes, I was one of the receivers of this letter and can confirm the content stated in the article linked above.
Posted By: Sundance

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/23/15 22:38

I'm just speechless. They are acting against their policies. I think its time to change the broker...
Posted By: swingtraderkk

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/29/15 13:15

I would not be a fan of overcapitalising accounts.

better keep most of your money on deposit, and only transfer into brokerage sufficient funds to cover margin. e.g if trading 20k leave 18k on deposit and put 2k in brokerage. Most countries guarantee client funds up to a limit, so cna factor that in too. i.e. if country will guarantee 20k client funds and you wish to have 100k with brokers use 5 different brokers!
Posted By: molloy

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/31/15 13:23

Please help me with this:

I am unable to cancel my z5 subscription - maybe my fault but I think a fault of mycommerce...

The technical support email which is given to me by mycommerce on the receipt (support@3dgamestudio.net) nicely answers that I need to buy a support ticket.

Please close the subscription as the service is discontinued and it would be also nice to send my last payment back. (issued today, number 483518475)

Thank you very much in advance!
Posted By: Mangal

Re: The end of Z5 - 01/31/15 21:27

Special Administrators appointed to Alpari (UK) Ltd

Upon the application of the directors of Alpari (UK) Ltd, on Monday 19 January 2015, the High Court appointed Richard Heis, Samantha Bewick and Mark Firmin of KPMG LLP as joint special administrators of Alpari (UK) Ltd, under the Special Administration Regime (SAR). Alpari (UK) Ltd is a company incorporated in the UK.
Alpari (UK) Ltd applied for insolvency on Monday 19 January 2015 following the decision on Thursday 15 January 2015 by the Swiss National Bank to remove the informal peg to the euro at around 1.20 Swiss francs. The announcement by the SNB prompted volatility across the foreign exchange markets which saw the company and many of its clients make large losses. After a weekend spent in urgent discussions with various parties with a view to selling the company, these efforts were ultimately unsuccessful.
We have had a number of enquiries from interested parties in relation to the company's business. We will be speaking with these parties and others over the next few days, and hope to secure a deal to preserve the business and jobs as far as possible.

For latest updates please visit www.kpmg.com/uk/alpari
Posted By: jcl

Re: The end of Z5 - 02/02/15 16:42

Molloy: Please contact the store about any issues with your subscription. Gamestudio is a game development system and their support can certainly not help with subscription issues.

Subscriptions need no express cancellation, they are automatically cancelled when you just stop paying.
Posted By: MatPed

Re: The end of Z5 - 03/18/15 09:40

Due to Z5 expiration, why do not publish the source code. It wiil be interesting to study it. Just an idea...
Posted By: jcl

Re: The end of Z5 - 03/18/15 17:19

Z5 will most likely get a revival as a statistical arbitrage strategy of several selected asset combinations. We're currently working on it.
Posted By: Mangal

Re: The end of Z5 - 06/22/15 21:22

Help required !!. When the removal of bottom by Swiss Central Bank of EUR/CHF I had in Alpari about EUR 500 with less than one contract long, something like 0,5 or 0,7 lots, I think to remember. So, everything was lost. Alpari UK, in turn, went into bankcruptcy. I couldn't even access to my account anymore. Now this guys are runing after me asking £11.383.50. Anyone knows any lawyer dealing with these issues? What to do? I assume they are taking as basis of their claim of debt the Force Major... I don't know. See below the message I got.


Alpari (UK) Limited - in special administration (“the Company”)
Joint Special Administrators - Samantha Bewick, Richard Heis and Mark Firmin

Outstanding Balance: £11383.50

Samantha Bewick, Mark Firmin and Richard Heis were appointed Joint Special Administrators (“JSA’s”) of the Company on 19 January 2015. Formal notice of the appointment is available to view on the JSA’s website at www.kpmg.com/uk/alpari.

You are receiving this letter as it has been established that you have a negative balance on your account following the closure of the open CHF trades on your account between 15 and 16 January 2015.

The JSA’s have appointed CCI Legal Services Ltd to assist them to collect the debts due from clients with negative balances on their accounts with the Company and confirmation of our appointment can also be found on the website referred to above.

All defined terms not otherwise defined in this notice are as defined in your agreement with the Company.
Pricing validation work has been undertaken by the Joint Special Administrators since their appointment and such work is described in detail in the document entitled “15.04.15 Valuation of Swiss currency pair trades” at www.kpmg.com/uk/alpari.

Following that work, the negative balance on your account has been confirmed as £11383.50. This is the consolidated balance due and should include all accounts you have with the Company if you hold more than one account.
You may settle this balance as follows:

To receive a 20% discount: Total payable: £9106.80

Provided you settle your account balance in full by 13 July 2015 the Joint Special Administrators are prepared to allow a prompt payment discount of 20% of the balance due. We will therefore accept a payment of £9106.80, in full and final settlement of your above consolidated account balance provided it is settled by 13 July 2015.

To receive a 15% discount: Total payable: £9675.98 Minimum Monthly Instalment £1612.66

If you are unable to settle the account balance in full immediately, provided you agree a formal payment arrangement by 13 July 2015 you will be able to benefit from the following concession; Clients that enter in to (and subsequently honour) a formal payment arrangement to settle their debt in full by six equal monthly instalments over the next six months will receive a prompt settlement discount of 15%.

To receive a 10% discount: Total payable: £10245.15 Minimum Monthly Instalment £853.76

If you are unable to settle the account balance in full immediately, provided you agree a formal payment plan by 13 July 2015 you will be able to benefit from the following concession; Clients that enter in to (and subsequently honour) a formal payment plan to settle their debt in full by 12 equal monthly instalments over the next 12 months will receive a prompt settlement discount of 10%.

In order to qualify for either of the above payment arrangement discounts please respond to this email supplying your name, address and CCI reference number to pass data protection or alternatively, please call us on +44 (0) 1766 771166 in order to set up a payment arrangement.

If you do not take advantage of the above concessions by 13 July 2015, the Joint Special Administrators reserve the right to withdraw these offers and pursue settlement of your full account balance from 14 July 2015, at which stage additional costs, charges, interest and fees may be incurred and added to the balance being pursued, if appropriate.

The consolidated balance quoted above includes a deduction of all commissions, charges and other costs due by you under clause 16.3 of the Agreement, and as set out in clause 1.8 of the Company's Risk Disclosure Notice.

To review all documentation relating to your account with Alpari please visit: www.ccilegal.co.uk/alpari
This letter is governed by and shall be construed in accordance with English law.

If you have any questions or wish to discuss this matter further, please do not hesitate to contact us on +44 (0) 1766 771166 or email: alpari@ccilegal.co.uk


Yours sincerely,

CCI Legal Services Ltd

Authorised and Regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority

This communication is from a debt collector. This is an attempt to collect a debt and any information obtained will be used for that purpose

The information contained in this communication is intended solely for the use of the person named above and the organization to whom it is addressed. As it is strictly confidential and protected by the agent/client relationship it may contain information which is legally privileged. If you are not the named recipient you may not copy it, make use of it or use any information contained in it for any purpose or disclose its contents to any person. To do so may be unlawful. If you have received this message in error please contact us at once. We advise you to carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment as we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of any software viruses.

Company Registration No: 04358908 - Consumer Credit Licence No: 627305 - Data Protection Registration No: Z5640292 - VAT: GB801319764 - Registered Office: Stanhope House, Mark Rake, Bromborough, CH62 2DN

For security and training purposes all telephone calls are recorded
Posted By: GPEngine

Re: The end of Z5 - 06/23/15 02:28

I merely searched for [forex debt collector uk]. Got a random lawyer who has published something on this matter.
http://www.collyerbristow.com/business/financial-disputes/forex-negative-balances
(I have no clue, and this is not an endorsement)
Posted By: jcl

Re: The end of Z5 - 06/23/15 11:30

Companies under special administration attempt to collect money with any possible means, as this is the job of the special administrator. So this letter is sort of standard procedure and unrelated to whether the claim is justified or not. They offer discounts in the hope that a few of the probably thousands of clients rise to that bait.

In my opinion, most those claims are unjustified. Almost all brokers give the impression in their advertisements that clients are only liable for their deposit. Even if the fine print says otherwise, it is invalid for this reason under the jurisdiction of most countries. Of course this is just my personal opinion, no legal advice. I would react immediately and reject the claim in full in a brief letter.

There are many other reasons to dispute such claims, for instance the broker failed to explain in detail why he did not execute your close order, and failed to document his attempts to do so.

You'll need a lawyer only when they really file charges.
Posted By: Sundance

Re: The end of Z5 - 06/24/15 19:23

Please keep us up to date Mangal. Don't give them any money... those thief's ...
Posted By: Mangal

Re: The end of Z5 - 06/27/15 21:40

Thank you to all of you. I will keep you uptodated. KMPG evaluates saying that due to volatility the stop outs were generated arbitrarily with the system's capacity limiting the number of orders generated.

By the way, I had 391 euros in the account with a margin requirement the previous day of 150 euros and a margin available of 188 euros. From here they claim more than 11.000 pounds.

Attached picture Captura de pantalla 2015-06-27 a la(s) 18.05.03.png
Posted By: Sphin

Re: The end of Z5 - 06/28/15 01:43

What you did not understand according to the balance? I think you got an accounting that explains your entries and your exits, so the negative balance should be clear. Or do you wonder about the bad exits, the prices you got when the trades where closed?
Posted By: Mangal

Re: The end of Z5 - 08/27/15 11:33

The debt colector sent me an email saying that for the time being they will analyze what I am saying and come back to me on due time. For the time being they stop coming against my neck.

I told them about bad practices of Alpari when they hide very well the risk contract in 2013 in their website and that there is a European Union recomendation against bad practices. Some banks have even been fined because of this and over 2000 court cases have been won't by clients against their banks, the press reports.

They will have to explain how an investment of 391 euros is capable to loose 11.000 pounds in matter of seconds is considered to be suitable for me. Demo accounts as well as real money accounts stop out when no margin is there, so this are, as far as I undertand, the rules.

By the way, I have seen ThinkForex advirtising as they protect against negative balance. Is FXCM doing the same thing?
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