NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES
Posted By: sCKan
NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/07/07 19:12
I think than gamestudio is a good engine but it is obsolete
it needs support more shader and material effects, and integrate these effects in the engine, on native way, not like external effects.
Gamestudio also needs support volumetric shadows, and these shadows must be shown on everything object in scene
because actually yes! 3dgs has support of materials and shaders but those are very hard to code and it has errors.
3dgs have potential but it has need a new face
For example : DarkBasic pro games have bump-mapping and volumetric shadows and it looks nice but is poor compared with gamestudio, Conitec needs to take advantage of DirectX 9 to do this.
I really hope that A8 will be better than A7.
THANKS...
[edit] removed the german icon. It was confusing... [/edit]
Posted By: ChrisB
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/07/07 19:31
What are volumetric shadows? acknex use volume shadows called stencil shadows.
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3dgs has support of materials and shaders but those are very hard to code and it has errors.
Well you can learn, and if you found an error/bug you should post it in bug hunt.
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I really hope that A8 will be better than A7.
well you have to wait years until a8 will be released. 
Posted By: Lukas
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/07/07 19:32
Why the
???
Your post isn't written in german
[edit] hast Recht. Ich habe es angepasst
, elsewood [/edit]
Posted By: Scorpion
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/07/07 19:36
you have to know it :rolleyes:
i would look at the
forecast, on what they are working at time.
Another thing is gs supports shader, also your great bump mapping effect, just have to code it (or take one of the many ready one fly around in the forum and the wiki)
and the last thing is, everything you want to have will be supported by a7 already
Before you post you should get information about the topic you write about.
Posted By: HeelX
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/07/07 19:39
Quote:
3dgs have potential but it has need a new face
We tried it, actually. But our hopes have failed ^^ now we've got the cube again. 
Posted By: fastlane69
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/07/07 23:18
This forum should have a "posts" minimum: anyone under 20 for example isn't allowed to suggest new features.
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/08/07 02:31
It's all coming or already supported in one form or another (experimental/private beta vs. released...some new some for years....errors in shaders? Only if you code the errors into it....not counting engine bugs of course....you find a bug then report it). Lightmapping is for a static lightmaps and the A7 lightmapper is all new but it is still experimental. It has to be revamped because of the new FBX-centric approach Conitec is adopting. There are also more nice, static lightmapping features like radiosity (see Forecast for a screenshot comparison), spotlights, etc.
Posted By: JibbSmart
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/08/07 02:52
Quote:
This forum should have a "posts" minimum: anyone under 20 for example isn't allowed to suggest new features.
yay! and now this thread has a decent request in it as well! ^^
julz
Posted By: sCKan
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/08/07 05:32
yes 3dgs supports shaders but the problem begins when i want drop shadows on other block also with shader effect
about lights 3dgs only supports stencil shadows z-buffered
volumetric shadows are based on distance between light source and objects these kind of shadows produces that the shadows looks bigger when the object is near to the light source or smaller when the object is far to the light source
z-buffered shadows only produces far shadows or near shadows but the scale is the same.
any suggestion?
i believe that volumetric shadows can be coded but you need good shader knowledge
Posted By: sCKan
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/08/07 06:19
take a look of my problem with shader blocks :
http://sckan.orgfree.com/any suggestion?
Posted By: JibbSmart
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/08/07 06:34
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about lights 3dgs only supports stencil shadows z-buffered
volumetric shadows are based on distance between light source and objects these kind of shadows produces that the shadows looks bigger when the object is near to the light source or smaller when the object is far to the light source
z-buffered shadows only produces far shadows or near shadows but the scale is the same.
the ones in A6/A7 are still volumetric shadows. a more common term for volumetric shadows is stencil shadows. that's exactly what you see in A6/A7. you should be requesting that stencil shadows have perspective -- vertex-based projection instead of object based.
for your problem, you should ask in the level editing forum. it could be a problem with your build settings. or stencil shadow settings in your code. in fact at the moment it's not a good idea to apply shaders to level geometry (if that's what you're doing) for speed reasons.
sorry i can't be more helpful.
julz
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/08/07 06:49
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you should be requesting that stencil shadows have perspective -- vertex-based projection instead of object based.
Yes....if SS are capable of this and a more "Sphere-like" shadow can be produced only with good ol' tried and true SSs then that would be grand.
@jcl: If that's something Bill allows via DX9 then make it so, please. It would make all the difference in the world.....rendering speed be damned. Stencils have been around forever and no one complained much for those years (or anyone that matters...they're still used in dozens....hell hundreds.....of titles and smaller studios/teams that don't necessarily want or need full, Glorious shaders-based shadows). A more accurate perspective based SS that can grow and shrink and display on ceilings without shaders is a Holy Grail for me and many others. We don't all want to screw around with shadowmapping...at least not right now.
Posted By: sCKan
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/08/07 17:41
Volumetric Shadows (PRV) already exist in 3dgs as you can see when you add a light in wed, but this lights can't be moved in real time, the lights emitted by entities are different because only can produce stencil shadows.
Posted By: JibbSmart
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/09/07 01:33
stencil shadows are the most common implementation of shadow volumes, or volumetric shadows, or whatever you want to call it.
stencil shadows ARE volumetric shadows.
julz
Posted By: Machinery_Frank
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/09/07 10:58
I support OrangeBrats request for an accurate perspective based real-time shadow (stencil or shader, I did see both so far). Here is a short explanation what Brat and me try to tell.
I painted a little pic in Gimp very fast to illustrate that (sorry for the typo):
Posted By: jcl
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/12/07 06:31
Maybe you were confusing perspective with depth? There is no such thing as a "perspective-correction" of shadows.
Perspective is caused by a projection from a point. You can see this with shadows in real life. Shadow lines move a little outwards and a shadow on a wall is bigger than the person that throws this shadows. This is the same in a 3D engine. The dynamic lights that cast volumetric shadows are just points in space. When the light source is far away, like the sun, the perspective is barely noticeable.
"Depth" means that far away parts of the shadow look more blurry because they are outshined by the environment light. This requires several shader passes and affects the frame rate, so most 3D games don't use this effect.
Posted By: ello
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/12/07 07:00
but jcl, what approach will you consider for the softshadows for 3dgs? (which i hope will soon get a new xx% state in the forecast)
in the shaderX3 book there are a lot of nice techniques dealing with it (which look like what frank has shown on the right side
or Shadow Accumulation (
pdf )
http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~cg/Studienarbeiten/SA_Kipermann.pdfthis looks interesting, too:
http://www.sci.utah.edu/~bavoil/research/shadows/melissa/
Posted By: jcl
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/12/07 07:47
I know the shaderX3 book. We'll use a technique that works with shader model 2.0 and still delivers good fast results. I'll have some time in October and will then write a shadow shader.
Posted By: JibbSmart
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/13/07 00:50
Quote:
Maybe you were confusing perspective with depth?
but we would like stencil shadows to have perspective.
julz
Posted By: Machinery_Frank
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/13/07 07:50
No, I did not confuse it. I added this option purposely - not sure if that will be possible.
Nevertheless I am looking forward to see the new soft-shadow shader of Conitec and an improved lightmap compiler.
Posted By: jcl
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/13/07 09:09
Julzmighty: Just read my response. There are no stencil shadows without "perspective". How to activate shadows and light sources is described in the manual.
Posted By: Machinery_Frank
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/13/07 09:16
I think the problem with our stencil shadows is: Most users use them with the sun as a light source and therefore do not see the expected perspective shadows. The influence of a nearby dynamic light is the only chance to create interesting and realistic perspective stencil shadows in an indoor environment.
Posted By: JibbSmart
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/13/07 10:19
they haven't always had perspective with dynamic light sources have they? i was never aware of a change, and from other peoples' discussions i was always under the impression it was always orthographic.
i remember a discussion regarding a video of another game where a little vampire or something was casting a huge shadow on the wall, and the differences between their system and gs's were discussed.
julz
Posted By: HeelX
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/13/07 20:53
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(...) The influence of a nearby dynamic light is the only chance to create interesting and realistic perspective stencil shadows in an indoor environment.
Maybe this isn't popular, because only ONE light entity casts such a shadow. If an entity could have more than one stencil shadow and the shadows are faded away depending on the lightsource intensity and distance to it, heck, I would use it more than very often.
Posted By: mpdeveloper_B
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/14/07 04:36
actually, i agree that we need more shader support, meaning some in engine shaders, instead of having to write all of them in dx (which is slower, because it has to compile the shader every frame, meaning it isn't real shader support, just dx) in all honesty it would be great to have normal mapping and bloom and all these older shaders coded into the engine itself, they would be faster that way, and while on the topic, we need a new lighting engine, the lighting isn't all that great.....
however this being said, this engine was at a great price and this forum is very helpful, so you get what you paid for
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/14/07 07:35
@JulzMighty: I was the one that brought up that game/scene with the huge shadow on the wall. It was a PSP game called Death Jr. If this kind of huge shadow effect can be achieved without a shader, then that would be best, but I fear this may not be possible.
Quote:
Quote:
(...) The influence of a nearby dynamic light is the only chance to create interesting and realistic perspective stencil shadows in an indoor environment.
Maybe this isn't popular, because only ONE light entity casts such a shadow. If an entity could have more than one stencil shadow and the shadows are faded away depending on the lightsource intensity and distance to it, heck, I would use it more than very often.
I have some lines in my dynamic light function which will fade the shadow depending on distance from the light. The problem with it is that it will fade EVERY shadow because of the nature of stencil shadows. It also only works with one light only, but Error said there were possible ways to get around this. Search for the thread in Scripting. Here's the code...these two lines go before my dynamic light while loop:
Code:
my.skill11 = 100*pow(my.minDist,4)/(pow(my.maxDist,2)-pow(my.minDist,2)) + 100*pow(my.minDist,2);
my.skill12 = -100*pow(my.minDist,2)/(pow(my.maxDist,2)-pow(my.minDist,2));
This line will go somewhere near the end of the while loop:
Code:
mat_shadow.alpha = my.skill11 / (clamp(vec_dist(my.x,player.x), my.minDist, my.maxDist) * clamp(vec_dist(my.x, player.x),my.minDist,my.maxDist)) + my.skill12;
You'll need either a VAR or DEFINE for minDist and maxDist. These are the values that will determine the behavior of the fading. It's a bit tricky, and I don't fully understand it, yet it works find once I get the proper values for a level.
Posted By: JibbSmart
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/14/07 13:46
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@JulzMighty: I was the one that brought up that game/scene with the huge shadow on the wall. It was a PSP game called Death Jr. If this kind of huge shadow effect can be achieved without a shader, then that would be best, but I fear this may not be possible.
yeh! death jr!
well that's what jcl says 3dgs's stencil shadows can do. i'll give it a go on the weekend, but i've never seen a 3dgs example of it.
julz
Posted By: Machinery_Frank
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/17/07 09:59
I found an interesting article from Crytek / Siggraph 2007. It describes
shaders and shading, Variance Shadow Maps, Real-Time Ambient Maps,
Screen-Space Ambient Occlusion, different LOD-systems.
I hope this helps to get some ideas for better shadows and shading:
PDF-article from CrytekThe references in this article look very valueable as well.
Posted By: mpdeveloper_B
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/17/07 14:27
well for one thing, why can't we use a diffuse map for lighting on our models anyway, or why isn't the light coded to do this anyway? it seems like a6 kept a5's lighting and rendering engine with some minimal improvements. In all honesty before all the shaders and stuff can be added, we need a new rendering engine altogether, as it is the rendering engine is.....ok....but of course i only have a6.5, but even then, the rendering engine is a bit outdated, now an example of my two favorite rendering engines are the serious engine and the unreal engine, unreal being the best, because both are good at making out huge terrains and outdoor environments, i think it's about time to start moving 3dgs in this direction, considering it's popularity has really grown over the years, and way more people are starting to get it, originally it was for casual games, and the engine is perfect for them, but now people are trying good fps', horror games, and other games that require a better render engine.
Actually, i love 3DGS and it's support, if all the bugs were worked out, and the rendering engine was redone along with shaders, and a new lighting engine, it would be one of the best, because of the huge amount of support that you don't get with most engines...
Posted By: Darkyyes
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/17/07 23:43
Ok, Manslayer101 how much is the license price on serious engine and any of the unreal engines counting 1,2,3? Waaay more than what gamestudio does and thus they are alot more complex and can of course tackle more punish. =/
Posted By: mpdeveloper_B
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/18/07 02:27
right, that's my point, it would be great for new rendering engines and stuff, but i also mentioned that the amount of support we get is far more than what you'd get for serious engine or ut engine, considering the deal it's a great price, but it is true that we've been promised a new rendering engine, and a shader editor, and more features...in all honesty the game engine is a good engine, especially for the price you pay, and as i stated before, the support is this engine's "ace in the hole"
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/18/07 03:59
Quote:
it seems like a6 kept a5's lighting and rendering engine with some minimal improvements. In all honesty before all the shaders and stuff can be added, we need a new rendering engine altogether, as it is the rendering engine is.....ok....but of course i only have a6.5, but even then, the rendering engine is a bit outdated
A6's renderer was not the same as A5's. A7's is not the same as A6's. The lights were different, too.
Also, you should get rid of A6.5. That was a buggy version that Conitec pulled. A6.6 is the final version that eliminates the 2-3 "showstopper" bugs. Somewhere during the A6 lifecycle, the entire engine was almost completely rewritten. It was during the time when there was that very long delay between releases. When used correctly, dramatic increases in speed can be accomplished with the final A6 and A7.
Posted By: JibbSmart
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/18/07 04:00
Quote:
Perspective is caused by a projection from a point. You can see this with shadows in real life. Shadow lines move a little outwards and a shadow on a wall is bigger than the person that throws this shadows. This is the same in a 3D engine. The dynamic lights that cast volumetric shadows are just points in space. When the light source is far away, like the sun, the perspective is barely noticeable.
and how do we turn this on in our engine? don't suggest that we read the manual. i have dynamic light-sources moving ridiculously close to shadow-casting objects whose shadows do not get bigger on further away objects.
Quote:
Julzmighty: Just read my response. There are no stencil shadows without "perspective". How to activate shadows and light sources is described in the manual.
i think you're using the wrong engine, or you need a better manual:
btw the ball is the light source.
this is clearly object-based projection as opposed to vertex-based projection, which we need for perspective.
please enlighten me as to stencil shadows with perspective using A7.
julz
Posted By: mpdeveloper_B
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/18/07 13:29
Quote:
A6's renderer was not the same as A5's. A7's is not the same as A6's. The lights were different, too.
Also, you should get rid of A6.5. That was a buggy version that Conitec pulled. A6.6 is the final version that eliminates the 2-3 "showstopper" bugs. Somewhere during the A6 lifecycle, the entire engine was almost completely rewritten. It was during the time when there was that very long delay between releases. When used correctly, dramatic increases in speed can be accomplished with the final A6 and A7.
i'm not sure what bugs you mean, i haven't ran across them yet, so far my game is pretty stable on a6.5
now i know what time you mean, the release between 6.3 and 6.4 is the time you mean, because after a6.3 all the others didn't support 6.3's code
Posted By: Dyc
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/18/07 18:21
Is this the effect you are looking for?
short video If so, this can be easly achieved in a6 /a7. the only drawback is the fact that only one light will be casting the shadow at any one time.
Posted By: Machinery_Frank
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/18/07 18:40
Dyc: Please create this scene with one single mesh and try again. It will not work just like JulzMighty or Ello could show.
Posted By: Dyc
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/18/07 19:58
There is already a thread about this in the beta forum and Jcl said tha there could be a "bug in the light manager" however even with the level built from one mesh the shadows have accurate proportions, they are just being cast all in one direction and not away from the light source.
Posted By: JibbSmart
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/18/07 22:01
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they are just being cast all in one direction and not away from the light source.
well that's exactly what we're saying. it shouldn't matter how many meshes you use, the shadow volume should be projected directly away from the lightsource, not just in the direction of the mesh's origin from the light source. this is what is meant by perspective.
julz
Posted By: ello
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/24/07 22:17
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I know the shaderX3 book. We'll use a technique that works with shader model 2.0 and still delivers good fast results. I'll have some time in October and will then write a shadow shader.
jcl, when you go for the softshadow shader, is it possible to apply this via an entity-flag?
eg: set(my,SOFTSHADOW);
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/25/07 00:25
Quote:
i'm not sure what bugs you mean, i haven't ran across them yet, so far my game is pretty stable on a6.5
There were two "showstopper" bugs. Although, the bugs are only relevant on either old Win98 systems or if you use AABB collision, they are still present. Here's the text from the Bugs page below for the two specific problems. There are also six other bugs mentioned with varying degrees of severity:
Quote:
Version 6.50 (pulled due to two severe bugs, see below)
The AABB collision detection (ent_move() as well as c_move() with USE_AABB) used a wrong angle for the collision with map entities under some circumstances, for instance at the Weather Room in the Techdemo (fixed in A6.58.0). This is a severe bug and can be a 'showstopper'. Use version 6.50 at your own risk. If you are using the AABB collision detection, walk through all places in your level and check whether entities can walk through walls or become stuck in some places.
Quote:
On some machines, not all initial windows resolutions were recognized properly (fixed in A6.58.0). This could lead to a wrong initial resolution and enven a crash on old systems (Win98) that didn't support the resolution set with video_mode. This is a severe bug and can be a 'showstopper' on Win98 systems.
Posted By: jcl
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/25/07 08:57
Ello: it will still be the SHADOW Flag. - BTW, there was indeed a stencil shadow bug that led to 'crippled' shadows under some circumstances, as in your and Julzmightys examples. Normally this is not noticeable, but it becomes very noticeable when the light source is within the model.
Posted By: JibbSmart
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/25/07 09:02
oh wow
thnx jcl
julz
Posted By: ello
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/25/07 09:48
thanks
Posted By: Poison
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/26/07 18:39
That is really beatiful thanks jcl.
Posted By: ello
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/26/07 18:50
btw, i just saw.. 7fps .. what does this mean? is this the limit??
Posted By: TWO
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/26/07 19:00
I hope he has just a stoned GPU, something like Gf5200. Nice shoot btw.
Posted By: Kotakide
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/27/07 02:34
Quote:
I hope he has just a stoned GPU, something like Gf5200. Nice shoot btw.
NO!! I hope this shot is taken with the oldest stoned GPU, something like riva TNT/2 32 megs.
yay!... 
Posted By: jcl
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/28/07 11:19
In fact it was a GF 4, but don't worry - that shot was taken in DirectX debug mode. Release mode is many times faster.
Posted By: ello
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/28/07 18:55
one more question, as i cant imagine it. is the softshadow-shader going to be faster than stencilshadows?
Posted By: Matt_Coles
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/28/07 20:07
If you look at soft shadows on the upcoming beta's page it's just an additional pointer that allows extra processing on the existing stencil shadows such as blur. So i don't think they'll be any faster, probably a little slower
Posted By: ello
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/28/07 20:49
hm, i guess you misunderstood something, or i did. but softshadows have nothing to do with stencil shadows, or do they?
Posted By: William
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/28/07 22:50
I hope not, many of meshes are not closed(save polygons in most cases), and stencil shadows do not work properly in most cases. I always thought soft shadows do not have this restriction, so have been waiting for them.
Posted By: Matt_Coles
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/29/07 06:58
Here it is from the beta page:
The render_stencil bitmap pointer allows rendering the stencil buffer content into an offscreen bitmap for further processing, such as blurring for creating smooth stencil shadows.
So all it does is allow shader affects such as softening on the existing stencil shadows.
Posted By: Dyc
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/29/07 08:33
render_stencil "can" be used to achieve soft stencil shadows, however the forcast still clearly states that a "soft shadow mapping" shader is still "HI". And last time I checked shadow mapping had not much to do with stencil shadow volumes.
Shadow mapping
Posted By: Matt_Coles
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 09/30/07 22:44
But that is still awhile away, ecspecially if the soft stencil shadow system is introduced. They will most prob work on other forecast features
Posted By: Matt_Aufderheide
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 10/01/07 07:14
Shadow mapping (shadow buffers) is generally much more desirable than shadow volumes (stencil shadows). This is because in general shadow maps are much more flexible in that they dont care what kind of geometry you render. For instance, trees can cast correct shadows from foliage and things like chain link fences, and meshes dont have to be closed.
I dont know how Conitec is doing the shadow volume extrusion, but my bet is they are NOT using the GPU, which is basically a bad idea if you want multiple lights and so on. In my experience Conitec generally opts to use the lowest-tech method for compatability.
Either way, shadow volumes are really not likely to be useful going forward in the general case ( some argue that DX10 will make their use more efficient, but still they cant handle many kinds of geometry).
The soft shadow aspect is not really a consideration, as both shadow maps and shadow volumes can be processed to have softness. Creating a true penumbra is much more costly and not possible without a quite a bit of fiddling, or multiple shadow samples. The Sphere shadows are done using a multiple sample (PCF), but the shadow maps were by neccessity lower res..
However, for a good example of excellent shadows, look at the new patch of Stalker, which has essentially perfect soft-shadow maps for every light and object in high-res (no true penumbra but everything else is perfect). It is essentially high-res lightmaping done in real time (without global radiosity however..). The era of static lightmaps is certainly long gone in commercial games.
Posted By: ello
Re: NEW LIGHT MAP ENGINE AND SUPPORT FOR SHADRES - 10/01/07 07:29
maybe you should hire at conitec and give the engine a big punch:)