Zorro 1.26 available!

Zorro version 1.26 is now available:

http://server.conitec.net/down/Zorro_setup.exe

A description of the new features can be found here:

http://manual.zorro-trader.com/new.htm

Please also read the part about updating your system. The reported bugs of the previous version have been fixed. If you have a previous Zorro version, please also make sure to download the recent 2014 price history for testing the Z systems of the new version. All Z system subscribers will receive strategy updates within the next days.

Congratulations, jcl! 2 questions:

Is this release identical to the beta?

If I have used the Download script to update prices, is it still recommended for some reason to download and install the 2014 price history zip?

Thanks.

Yes, it is identical to the beta. If you already have the recent prices, you need not download the history.

Thanks.

Just a question to be not making a mistake here. I remember when changing last year to a newer version of Zorro there was a change in one of the sliders and i lost 100€ real money.
So. Can I update Z5 without any probs regarding the sliders?
I just changed my Z12 Zorro to the new version and it seems to work as it should and continued all trades.

Hi Sundance. My experience has been that the Z systems sometimes Test very differently from version to version. For example, 1.26 Z3 Tests very differently than 1.24.

My understanding is the correct procedure when upgrading is to first Test to find the Margin/Risk setting that gives the same CR as you started with. This is the procedure I'm following, as described in the spreadsheet posted in the other thread.

If this is incorrect, I hope someone will chime in!

HTH.

Hi DdlV,

I've read the same in the other thread. Thats right and I must admit I need to do this for Z12. :-|
But its a good idea and will do this also for Z5.

see you
Sundance

I tested Z5 (50/3500) and Z12 (10/10) on 1.26 and found the CR nearly identical or slightly lower than on 1.24, so I did not change my sliders. Whereas the CR of Z3_1.26 (5/10) is nearly half of 1.24 so I doubled margin.

Thanks for testing Sphin. I tested also Z12 and seems to be the same values. Yepp.
I will change Z5 today and see how it performs...

The sliders have not changed, so this can not cause a problem when switching to a new version.

Hi jcl.

It's not that the sliders have changed per se. It's that the internal coding of the Z Systems changes so that the same slider settings (f.i. 50/10) means different CR.

Therefore, if one does not change one's invested Capital, one must change the slider to the new values that Test to that Capital Required.

If one uses the same slider settings as on the prior version, then one is either underMargining (new CR < invested Capital) and results will be lower (although margin call risk is also lower); lucky (new CR exactly = invested Capital); or overMargining (new CR > invested Capital) and while results might be higher, there is also higher risk of margin call.

Correct?

Thanks.

Yes. When a system is re-trained, the test period changes, and consequently also the test performance and the capital requirement.

It is up to the user if he wants to adjust the Margin slider according to the new results. I normally don't do it except when the test result is very different.

Thanks. That's a clear explanation. And also points out again the "macro" fragility of Test, for all its "micro" mathematical precision...

Might be something to note in the upgrade section of the manual?

Thanks.

BIG PROBLEM with 1.26 and Z5. Just entering into action at opening of market today, closed several old positions from versión 1.20 with a lose of more than € 5000 in real money. It ate up 30% of the account in less than 1 minute. I am wandering what is doing. I am quiet disapointed with it. On the other hand it opened and closed over 14 positions all of them with small losses.

Uuuhh Mangal. That hurts. I had also a situation where I lost money (only 100€) when restarted Z5 on a newer version. That was because the meaning of a slider had changed.
Yesterday I changed from 1.24 to 1.26 of Zorro at my Z5 instance. I still have old trades from June but no new trades since market open. So there is really something wrong with your Zorro instance.
When I change to a new version before I start trading again I do a test so that I now history is there and the slider have some setting. After that I set the sliders as I had them on the old version and start trading again.

You are sure that the slider setting are the same as on the old account?
How did you do your update?

Sorry to hear, Mangal.

Were you still running 1.20? Or only 1.26? Did you upgrade to 1.22 and 1.24 also along the way?

I recall that 1.22 was significantly changed from 1.20, and could not correctly handle 1.20 trades for Z5, and I think Z3 also. I am still running 1.20 for a few old Z5 trades. So far it has not closed them for loss...

What you've experienced sounds like the new algo added to Z5 for low volatility which can't correctly handle old 1.20 trades.

jcl can clarify for certain.

Again, sorry to hear.

Yes. That could also be the same situation I had when changing Z5. That the meaning of the slider had changed and ups. Money gone.... :-). No :-) !!! :-((((

Hi Sundance. jcl can clarify for certain, but my understanding is there are at least 2 different things that can happen with the Z strategies at an upgrade:

1) The CR produced by a given slider setting can change. This can happen due to changes in the Z strategy, or different test period, or ???

2) The Z strategy can have changed so much that open trades cannot be properly continued (even though they may actually be continued leading to bad results).

This latter has happened a number of times over the last year+, and is what I was referring to. My recollection is the last time it happened was the 1.20->1.22 upgrade.

Upgrade instructions are only given from the prior version - i.e., there are no 1.20->1.26 instructions. So if one upgrade step is missed, I suppose that can cause even greater problems down the line when other upgrades are done...

Hopefully jcl can clarify all of this.

I have been upgrading every time a new versión has come. 1.20 ...1.24....1.24.5....1.26.

Another thing is that the barr which becomes either green or red depending on if profit or loss, it has turned all green and gives as it has done a lot of profit.... The barr in 1.20 has become all red.

Hi Mangal.

1.22 is not in your list. Did you upgrade from 1.20 to 1.22?

It sounds as though you are still running 1.20? If 1.20 is still running, how did 1.26 close the old 1.20 trades?

Ouch. We don't test updating old systems to the current one. We only test updating the previous system, 1.24. So we can not predict what happens when you skip several update steps. But 1.24 to 1.26 normally won't close trades - at least there is no reason why it should, no matter with which version they had been entered.

Maybe you had a too-low setting of the stop slider? This can cause sudden closing of trades, unrelated to the update. Another possibility is changing the Mode slider while trades are open.

But you can recover the losses with Z5 in such a situation. Check the entry positions of the closed trades. For every one of them, manually open a new trade at market, with the same lot volume and a profit target of the old entry price plus 20 pips. This will recover the $5000 realized loss, although you lose the spread, and those trades are not handled by Zorro.

No, not too low settings of stop slider. I keep it high. Neither no Mode slider change when trades are open.

I am wandering if it is due to that I installed it in a completely different folder than 1.24. I created a new folder for 1.26. But this is what I did with the instalation of 1.24 in front of not compatible older versions. I didn't either skiped any version since I started over one year ago.

Anyway, I have entered manually the trades you sugested, though not all of them since margin level would be too low for my taste and if market turns around a lot of trades will be closed because of this.

When you installed it in a different folder, you need to copy also the .trd file over to the new folder. Otherwise the open trades will not be continued.

In folder 1.26 there is one file Z5.trd and another Z5.trd.bak . Replacing the Z5.trd with Z5.trd from folder 1.24 will make that instante 1.26 to continue with trades opened by 1.24. Will do the same with trades opened by 1.26 before replacing .trd ?

No, those trades are now in the new Z5.trd in the 1.26 folder. The .trd file contains the open trades at the moment when the strategy was stopped.

So, in that case the best solution would be to keep one instance of 1.24 open to continue with the old trades of 1.24 and with margin set to 0, and don't touch the Z5.trd in 1.26 folder to continue with the new trades since started, right?

Yes.

Z5 is doing again strange things. At open on sunday night closed over 10 positions on the negative with a total value of € 2437 which I can understand since the margin value got probably below 100% and Alpari usually starts to close. But at 22 hrs of today it closed again 16 possitions with small losses which there was no apparent reason and open again 13 positions leaving the margin value on the edge of 100% again. Shouldn't Z5 take the margin value into consideration before opening again positions? Soon will probably close a bunch of trades on negative due to this. The result is draining the account. And there is no way to get out and finish with Z5 without incurring in big lose because it is in the market.

The only instance open is of 1.26. When trying to open 1.24 with margin set to 0 started to close again a number of trades without reason. I was able to stop after two trades got closed and I am monitoring the old trades of 1.24 manually.

Today my account got emptied. € 16.000 euros loss in one year with Z5.

First 4 months, there was around 75% profit. Next 8 months, it ate up the 75% profit plus little more, So far, I considered reasonable in the world of EA's, but when 1.26 went into action started to do strange things closing lots of trades and opening new ones, without taking into consideration the left margin. So no way to keep the 95% rate of success as in back tests. There is something wrong in the money management.

My advice, stay out of Z5.

Independently of 1.26 doing something wrong, previous versions were working reasonable as far as they were tested in favourable periods to the system. In ther words, Walkforward analyssis works as far as it is tested in periods which are favourable to the system but not in periods that are unfavourable, for instante in extreme conditions close to 1,20 in EURCHF or probably on the other extreme up. For a system to be realiable should be tested also in extreme adverse conditions.

That sounds weird. You really should contact support. Give them every log file you can get. You/we need to know ig there is a problem where its center is. Some local stuff on your VPS installation or something global like the strategy itself or even the new 1.26 zorro version.

Yes, contact support. Z5 will never close 10 trades by itself, so this has nothing to do with the Z5 system.

Closing 10 trades can happen when you've set the Stop slider so that the current equity value was reached, or when your account is undercapitalized and your broker closed them due to a margin call. But you should definitely find out why your trades are closed.

Knowing that Z5 will never close 10 trades by itself and none of the situations above were there, then I should have stopped it as soon as it erased 30% of the account in less than a minute when market opened. Later than this, to stop Z5 and close the trades is complicated because it is usually in the negative and close all trades would mean big loss.

I'll try to send as many logs as possible to support because if I put them here it will too long.

In any case, if more than 10 trades at once can happen, the problem may have rised in the relationship between Z5 and the broker which sudenly decides to do something strange. We'll see what support says.