terrorism?

When America nuked the two Japanese cities they killed 140,000+ innocent people.
Another 2 million died in the next 5 years.
They have bombed civilians of Chile in 1973, and killed 50,000 Vietnam war and killed millions N. Korea and killed millions Libya in 1987 and killed 15,000 Iraq and have 65279; killed over a million Afghanistan and have killed 300,000 They disregard human life for victory.
Yet their acts are not terrorism?

What are your opinions?
I think you guys know my...

Please look up the definition of "Terrorism". Thanks.

In our days most people think that Terrorists and Islam are same things...
But, that's all caused with help of American government:
* fake Usamah bin Ladin (bullshit)
* fake suicide attacks in September 11 (bullshit)
* etc (insert other bullshit here)
This all was made to have a good reason to invade in Iraq...

Please. The bombing of Japan was not a terrorist attack by any stretch of the imagination. It was our (correct) response to Japan's refusal to surrender. Nobody can deny that it was awful, but what would you have done if you were leading America? Would you have left them alone so they could recharge and strike back with a vengeance? Would you have dumped troops on their own soil to restrict casualties, despite the fact that they were arming their own citizens for just such an occasion?

It's not like we abandoned them after the bombing, either. They agreed to surrender, we raised up a new government for them based on freedom, democracy, and capitalism(!), and then let them grow into the economic GIANTS they are today! Just think about it: Toyota, Nintendo, Sega... Those companies which have been completely stimulating the worldwide economy would've never existed if we hadn't set Japan straight. Left to itself, Japan would be nothing but a dictatorship.

Vietnam would've turned out just as well, if the young, hip American public hadn't stinted the war effort on America's part and forced us out so early. Way to go, hippies & liberals! Where's Vietnam now? STILL a communist failure of a nation, 50 years later? Oh well. At least they're "free" to perform communism now, just the way their prisoner-citizens never wanted!

Oh ha, a conservative Patriot, I guess.
Only thing to say is: Look at vietnam ... It is not a failing country.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam

Doesn't look so bad.

Look at Iraque .. after invasion -> failure (before -> failure as well I have to admit)

And I doubed that YOU have anything to do with that, so please don't use the phrase "WE have" ...
You don't participated at this wars, as I am no Nazi. Actions of our Ancestors are not inherited. Except you are a clone of them.

i dont think we are terrorist, I think we believe we are the police of the world... my opinion isnt a new one though. people always say things like japan attacked us first or osama attacked us first, but that is completely untrue.. we have this attitude or air of superiority that is completely unfounded for a 200 year country. and look were its gotten us? we have a federal reserve that is handing out cash, inflating our economy like tomorrow isnt even a concern. we have millions of people who think that just because someone believes in allah that they are going to try and kill you, and our education system IS A COMPLETE JOKE. ITS A HORRIBLE EMBARRASSMENT TO EVEN BE FROM THIS COUNTRY WITH THE LACK OF INTELLECT WE HAVE HERE. (I'm not saying everyone but the general population)

And yet we think we have the right to tell other countries what to do?

And yes maybe Iraq needed help, and Suddam Hussein needed to be taken out..... But shouldn't that have been the reason, not the WMD's? and of course the majority of the country was retarded enough to believe that crap. And honestly I think an IQ test should be in place for voters.... because george bush was elected ..... twice...

'nuff said.

I say "we" simply because its easier to type than "America" all the time. Besides, I am an American.

I'm not a patriot. Personally I think America is going down the tubes, and if it gets real bad, I want to jump ship ASAP. I'm not completely blind to the way America is heading today. I have my own beliefs and views on that. And concerning the bombing of Japan during World War II, I think we made the right decision.


Official exchange rate of Vietnam (est. 2009): $102 billion
Official exchange rate of Japan (est. 2009): $5.391 trillion
Sources:
http://www.asianinfo.org/asianinfo/japan/pro-economy.htm
http://www.asianinfo.org/asianinfo/vietnam/pro-economy.htm

5.391 trillion / 102 billion = aprox. 53

Japan's economy is about 50 times larger than the economy in vietnam.

Admittedly, Japan has had more time to grow. There's a 20 year gap there in war recovery time. But in the early nineties, Toyota, Sega, and Nintendo still existed and were still in very big business.


The war in Iraq played out just like the Vietnam war. It would've been successful if the American military had been able to do what it needed to do to win. America lost the Iraq war through politics. During World War II, everybody supported the war effort, right down to the three stooges. But you don't see any of that for the Iraq war...

EDIT:

Um. Japan DID attack us first. Ever heard of Pearl Harbor? America wanted to be neutral through the war. And then Japan attacked us without warrant at Pearl Harbor on December 7th, 1941. That's when the war began for America.

Not true.

Lets not forget about Obama.

@JustSid: Oh come on. I know that there was never a 100% backing on the part of America's citizens. I made a generalization. Most people (greater than 50%) in America supported America's war efforts. And yes, the three stooges did many pro-American war-themed skits in the '40s. Saw one myself just days ago.

And you think we never antagonized anyone before that? by that point we already basically had told everyone that we were king of the world, and that anybody that believe in communism was wrong and evil.

Why do we feel we can tell other countries what to do and still think we aren't going to be attacked for it?



obama was elected over john mccain. obama may not be doing great, but he was obviously the better choice. also come on.... mccain ran with palin. she is the brunt of every modern politics joke for a reason.

IMO the best recent presidential choice would have been/will be Ron Paul. For once we have someone trying to run that actually you know... follows the constitution, and doesnt bully the american people using fear to get there way. All these retarded folk out there that think if they allow a middle easterner start a small business in their community, that they are going to get blown up, well all those people vote vote though, and arent going away so i guess we'll never get to see an intelligent successful america in the near future.

god i want to move away from all these ignorant, redneck hicks.

EDIT:



Why did we need to win that war anyways... why was there even a war... it was retarded to even go there in the first place.

You know... I think I will just ignore everything you said there, for two reasons:

1. It's bogus nonsense. Ever heard of the Monroe doctrine?

2. It's bogus nonsense.

what does the monroe doctrine have to do with our "were going to tell everyone else what to do" attitude? and come on.. your really going to tell me that thats not true or "bogus nonsense"? then why is it we get atomic weapons but no one else does? why is it that we are trying our hardest to "own" the internet. there is no denying that the us seems to think that every one of our opinions can be the only opinion.

Responce to civilian? You think this is response?

or this

or this?. That's just diabolic.

But... Ah! i almost forgot! America is not guilty right? That's dolphine and whale!


You are typical american. Congrats!
A:-Hey there little japan! I must kill you. But don't worry. When you are die, your economy blablabla, democracy blabla bla
and bla. Oh and i'm not terrorist btw.
J:-Oh. That's okay.. Please kill me. i need some nuke. And thank you.

A:-Hey there little iraqian! I must kill you. But don't worry. When you are die, your economy blablabla, democracy blabla bla and bla. Oh and i'm not terrorist btw. and could you tell me where is the f.cking WMD? (Weapons of Mass Destruction )
I: bla?

How old are you btw?

emre brings up a good point, what good is an economy running the way we think it should do to the millions that died.

money in lieu of life does not seem like a fair trade to me.

I agree, no taken life of a human is worth any change. Even if we could find a cure for cancer it would not justify eperiments with deadly outcome on humans.

But .. We need a powerfull democratic(!) country. Somebody has to play the world police. If nobody does that, we would be the pawn of countries like china. (We allready are in economics ... )

Somehow the USA are still a respected military force. And that is good.
Ok, I don't approve with the war in Iraque (or at least how it was done) Or with the many many civilian deads in Afghanistan.

I can see there's no point to this. If you truly believe it's not right to take a life under any circumstances, I can't argue with you.

Ok I see.

Explain what for you is a terrorist.
And explain what for you is a freedoms fighter

Is the terrorist maby a freedoms fighter and the freedoms fighter a terrorist.
Or maby there are both a terrorist, maby there are both freedoms fighter?

But then there are peapol like the rothschild famiey...

But that is just a think helper
What do you guys think?

from wikipedia:
everything except the last point fits.

regarding hiroshima and nagasaki... i don't quite get why it was necessary to wipe out two cities instead of demonstrating the bomb on some empty area.

And what is for you a freedom fighter?

There are several theories around the atomic bombs, the common one is that the US had very heavy casualties on Okinawa and thus needed some way to force Japan to surrender, otherwise the casualties on the Japanese homeland would be much much higher (at the end of the Okinawa campaign the reinforcement died mostly a few hours after arriving at the front due to almost no experience and training, thus the US had to wait a long time after Okinawa to come back to full strength, giving Japan also time to reinforce).

Beside that, some experts think that the atomic bombs weren't needed as the constant shelling of Japan from air and see was already enough to force Japan to surrender after a few more weeks/months but the US government still wanted to demonstrate the strength of the new weapons.

Anyway, its part of our history and nonsense to discuss it. Fact is that it stopped the most brutal war and we should be thankful for that.



Now you can all bash again about the definition of terrorism and who should die for whatever reason.

BOTH ARE JUST FOR OWN INTERST. one called freedom fighter,the other called the reveloutioner .... justice? injustce ?;true? wrong? ;angel? evil? it is up to your side. there is a only thing --the weak who die ...hehe^

The cold war. Also that was after world war II, so it doesn't apply to your argument that up until world war II america was a total bully to every other nation on earth.


Our country did see the first achievements that might be called the internet, so it is technically ours (that's just one way to think of it). But even then the internet wasn't created until at least the sixties. So this doesn't apply to your argument either.


That's not true, but we are the strongest nation on earth (not saying that as a braggart, I personally don't think it'll last another two centuries). Our economy is about 100 times stronger than the economy of the next nation down. And I like to think our heritage of liberty, political and personal, is one that is as important as it is true. There are certain evidences like these that show clues as to what is right, and what isn't.

The problem I see with the american public is a grotesque lack of civic thinking, an intelligence that is respectful of the decisions and achievements of our ancestors while being educated and mindful of the views and beliefs our country was founded on, namely those of Judeo-Christianity. Even if you are not a christian yourself, you must surely recognize that America was founded as a christian nation, is a christian nation, and is not compatible with the worldviews of other nations that are founded on beliefs such as Islam, etc. Although we ought to strive to be as peaceful as possible when the ends meet properly.

Nations have religious identities. Most of America's founding fathers were not christian, but they were able to recognize this. Surely you can too.

Sorry, but Al Gore might think that he invented the internet, but in fact it is an european invention made at the Cern.

While considering USA a bastion of western civilization ( Shame on us, Europeans , who often insult America) , the bomb is an indelebile stain on the coscience of your country

I watched a movie "The Nurenberg trial"
Goring said
" You are also racists "
" The black people , you mean ?"
"No,because you droped the bomb on Japan"
"It was an act of war "
" Really? Be honest, would you drop the bomb on Germany ?"

I dont know whether this dialogue was just a fiction
The bomb was not available yet, so nobody knows the answer
But I am sure American would never drop the bomb on Germany

Yep, too bad Al Gore invented the internet. If he hadn't, we would've never known he didn't invent the internet.

But seriously... I thought the internet was first created as a part of the United States military in the 1960's..? But I guess I must be wrong.

the www got invented by tim berners-lee at the cern.

the internet/arpanet got invented by the us military.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29
how exactly is the us economy 100 times more powerful than the second largest?

about military strength... the us could wipe out the surface of the planet 100 times, russia maybe 80 times and china and france 5 times (just quite random guesses). great!

But i don't understand what's the difference. Usa or China or Russia. Killer is killer right?

For example; (Sorry ventilator, this is just for fun )


Just check the picture and tell me, that is terror or not. Maybe today america is our friend. But in the future? What you gonna do, when ventilator attacked to you? Who can help you?


America is not world police. World police is United Nations. and america does not fight for peace, just for self interest/benefit(or whatever). in my opinion america acts like a bandit and that's dangerous for future of the world. That's the point.

The United Nations is a joke. No one government will ever be able to tame the entire human race. But that's speaking directly from my own beliefs.

I totally agree with you. There is always some agressor needed to gain peace, so what we really need for worldpeace are aliens. Some agressor from outside so that we can team up and kill 'em.
I mean, its the whole same thing here in europe, germans naturally hate france (I think we stated this already with more than two wars pretty good), but the agressor UdSSR and now terrorism keeps us in peace.

Am I aggressor for u guys?
BTW I'm not alien... and terrorist either...

I actually meant the cold war russia, not the modern one =/

its well know, nothing brings people together like a common enemy


Those don't apply directly to the second ww true. but they are prime examples of our "we are the boss, and better than everyone" attitude. As far as being the most powerful country in the world... Maybe from a military stand point, but from an economic standpoint, even places like china are whiping the floor with us. The USD is inflating at an astronomical rate. The federal reserve is handing out money to banks, at almost no cost to the banks, without regard as to whether that bank will loan it out and ever get it back. and of course the bank is guaranteed safety. And each time this happens the cash in your wallet is worth less and less.

EDIT: adding to that the fact that our nation imports everything and exports nothing now a days, plus the fact that the average high school graduate is dumber than a box of rocks and studders through a simple reading test.... its not going to get better with this next generation. If kids are indeed our future, i dont want to be around america to see whats in store for them.

As far as judeo-christian beliefs being the foundation of america.... no. back then many people were dumb enough to believe the god had rights in government. We've grown up (or at least should have by now) and even the founding fathers had the foresight to create a constitution for rules to be tested against... how about we actually use it instead of succumbing to greedy lobbyists, self-interested politicians, and millions of uneducated voters that vote for the candidate that claims to match their political views instead of one that is looking to make us laws follow the constitution instead.

As lostclimate already said, this is not true. The founding fathers were secularists. They founded the USA as a SECULAR country where religion should play no role in poltics.
You want evidence? Just take a look at your constitution (which you already should have done, as an American):
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_States_of_America
Now search for words like "god", "christian", "religion", "religious", etc. Only the term "religious" will return ONE match:

"but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
Would the founding fathers have written this without mentioning it anywhere else if they wanted to found a christian nation? Of course they wouldn't have. But they did, because they were secularists.


Nations don't need religious identities.


The "In god we trust" and other references to god were added much later. The founding fathers would spin in their graves.

Eh? That's not what I said. I said America was founded by men who were not Christians themselves, but had Christian mindsets. Of course God plays no political part in America.


I agree with you that China will soon surpass us, but here's the current data:
United States GDP: 14.660 trillion USD
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States
China's GDP: 5.88 trillion USD
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China

China's catching up fast. But for now America is still on top.


You bet they do. Religion forms the foundation of human intelligence. You cannot invent a proof without first taking some unprovable "truths" for granted. Your religion, the base of all your understanding, is atheism. And you cannot prove that God does not exist, no more than I can prove that He does.

our gdp is not a good estimate of our strength, its our ability to move forward from here, and as even you admitted, we are falling very quickly.

As far as religious identity, why do we need one? why do we need to invent invisible people just to be civil to each other, or run a decent economy? I'm sorry but people who say that we need christian values in american politics do nothing but make me angry because that is essentially a slap in the face and insulting to the core principles of what america was created for.

japan? l just know millions of chinese have been killed.. including my great grandfather...

Not really. America was created based on christian principles, but the funny thing about that is that christian principles include peace and kindness. We don't mind if other people exercise knowledge based on other religions within other general area. We can't escape it, so we put up with it, as long as it does us no harm. Hence the separation of church and state: legally, we believe your beliefs should play no part in your participation in the government of this nation.

Thing is, as we let people with different principles within our nation, they begin to change the understandings of our people. That's the way it works for any system of beliefs. Religion has a bleeding effect. So ultimately, no Christian nation here on earth will ever last forever. In fact, we're such a nation so open to ideas, I imagine we'd only last a few centuries before we're knocked out...

Anyway, why do nations need religions? Like I said before, it's within my understanding that religion and unprovable beliefs form the foundation of human intelligence. In order to understand the world, different people will come up with different answers to these three core questions of our existance:

1. Where have we come from?
2. What has gone wrong?
3. How can we fix the problem?

After answering these questions, the people will then hypothesize, theorize, and generally develop ideas that answer other questions of their existance, such as:

1. What is good?
2. What is evil?
3. What is love?
4. What is hate?

And so on. Actually, those previous questions are usually answered subconsciously when we are very young, as our parents raise us. But anyway, we eventually we begin to develop less philosophical ideas and answer questions like:

1. Survival?
2. Economics?
3. Government?
4. Astonomy?
5. Technology?
6. Biology?
7. Chemisty?
8. Genetics?

And we end up with what's called a worldview, the "perspective" of our understanding, the limit of our knowledge. As humans, we all develop rational thinking. So our differences in thinking, then, are just the result of either two things: misunderstandings, or a clear difference of opinion on certain key questions that we are all naturally born with.

Well. There are obviously differences of opinion, then. And what that means (and what history shows us) is that people with similar views and understandings will tend to flock together and form coalitions, or nations, together. So those nations are ultimately built on... religion! Thus proving my point that all nations are built on core principles and beliefs.

This is a bit of a tangent, but if that's what a nation is, what is war? Pure stupidity? Not at all. It's a violent conflict based on unproveable human hypotheses regarding the core questions of our existance. Some stupidity and ineptitude has definitely played a role in the past (the Mexican War comes to my mind). But generally speaking wars are caused by something much bigger than just petty misunderstandings or a lack of intelligence.

The funny thing about human intelligence, is that if we have "core questions," where did those core questions come from? Heck, where did our intelligence come from? Why are we here, and how is it that we are asking, "Why are we here?"

Now it`s getting interesting.

To become a human is a art.
To know or to search the truth is like the punishment of Atlas.
But living in a herd like a sheep, far away the truth is blessing.
1.
So why searching for the truth, is it the best to be the happe sheep in a big herd?
2.
Why is Rothshild no terrorist?
Or maby they are they terrorist.

PS; please peapole respeckt all the arguments of another.
Try to discuse this like intelligent or gental humans.

Again, what do questions like "were do we come from" and "why are we here" have anything to do with government at all?

and now your just making things up, claiming that christian beliefs are based on peace... thats hilarious and completely untrue. What about the crusades... early ninties bosnia... the salem witch trials. Christianity, just like any other religion (besides some of the far eastern cultures that include things like toaism, confucism, etc.) are all nothing but excuses and scapegoats for people to commit atrocities. and you'll probably use the excuse I used when i was a christian. "those arent real christians, god is really loving", then explain the slaughter of jericho in the old testament, or the fact the in the christian belief system, why a young males genitals being mutilated is not his choice but necessary in its religion. OR RIGHT NOW WHY YOUR USING CHRISTIANITY AS A BASIS FOR WHY ITS OK TO KILL THOUSANDS OF MUSLIMS, AND TREATING EVER MUSLIM LIKE THEY HAVE A BOMB STRAPPED TO THERE CHEST.

that last part wasnt supposed to be yelling, I just am too lazy to make it bold, so i chose caps t make it pop

You mean Judaism.

It's true that Christianity has been used (and manipulated) to meet political agendas. Religions often have. Separation of Church and State prevents the twisting and perversion of religions by political agendas, but other scapegoats can always be found -- WMDs, for example. If the US was attached to a church like many powers were centuries ago, it'd be a religious excuse. It'd be no more justifiable. And the religion getting abused would be no more to blame.

Jibb

Christianity and Judaism are the same religion with a couple of changed rules, and an update on the supposed way to go to heaven. they still believe in circumcision and they still believe that the destroying of Jericho, or any other nation, if god's will, is appropriate and justified.

Christians don't practice circumcision -- this changed early enough that you can find it in the book of Acts when they're asking if non-Jewish believers should have to be circumcised, and they decide not.

Also, Judaism (or at least Old Testament Judaism) doesn't have a concept of Heaven or Hell as an afterlife -- just an unknowable pseudo-existence (Sheol) for everyone, regardless of faith or "righteousness".

Jibb

About the initial post:

The nuclear Bombing Japan was not mainly pursued to end the war or whatever.
The main purpose was to show off the magnitute and effectiveness of the bombs.
(In fact, the bombs where in production for years,
and where initially thought to be used against Germany.)

The second bombing was to test the difference between
Uranium and Plutonium designs.

Add some propaganda and Hollywood movies, and the bombing
is regarded "nessesary" in the US.

-----

In the end, using the V2 Rockets by Germany had the same
intentions. it was a new technology, used to show off and scare opponents.
Its a war logic, but its not "moral" by todays understanding.

Actually, there is a very big difference between the two religions. True Christianity is about salvation by faith alone. That's stressed repeatedly in the Bible, especially the New Testament. Judaism is based on salvation through physical, human works of redemption. Sure, we both believe in one sole God, but the similarities stop right about there.

Christianity has nothing to do with church attendance, priests, crusades, worship of the saints, or any of those other physical institutions. Like many people, you have confused Christianity with Roman Catholicism, which in my opinion is a complete heresy. The Roman Catholic church has performed hundreds of atrocities (like the ones you mentioned) in the name of God. They kept the Bible locked up for hundreds of years through the middle ages, and led people on wild goose chases for redemption.

True Christianity has nothing to do with that. The Christianity I follow is known as Protestantism, which you can see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestantism

About circumcision: circumcision is a law of Judaism, but is not a part of Christianity. Some christian parents do it as a symbol of their family's beliefs, but it is not required by God.

Finally, about Jericho: God was not wrong for having the people there slaughtered. Man is wholly God's, and He has the right to build up, and to destroy. God is not on the same level of being that man is, and He does not "owe" us anything, not even life. Nonetheless, He is a God who loves man and is not quick to anger.

I do not have it confused at all. I was a non-denominational christian most of my life until i started using a little common sense and logic. I know full well that original judaism is based off of works and sacrifice. but christianity's only difference is that if you believe christ to be the ultimate sacrifice as opposed to your first fruits, best cattle , whatever.. then you'll be forgiven. It doesnt mean though that things like the 10 commandments, and everything else in the old testament is meaningless to the religion. You just get a free get out of jail card if you screw up.

And please. dont try to tell me what i have confused about the christian religion. I very much understand the difference.

10 seconds on google:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html
and your saying the new testament doesnt promote violence? and again, you still are dodging the question of what religion and polotics have to do with eachother, or why the government needs to have any correlation with the questions like "why are we here" and such.

Let's not get carried too far off topic by unrelated religious discussion (pro- or anti-). Such discussions are what this forum is made for, but not this topic.

Jibb

yeah, thats why i had to add that last part, it seems like topics in this forum always somehow get dragged to religion

Yeah, I was doing it too -- it's so hard not to!

Jibb

I'm not dodging the question, it's just hard for me to keep track of a discussion as stringy as this one.

It seems to me that we can't convince each other of anything, so the best thing to do would be to stop arguing.

Besides, Jibb's right... This thread has nothing to do with religion. I had a purpose for starting up that discussion, but I should've done it in another thread.

to be honest im a little annoyed that redeemer even brought up religion (no offense redeemer) because america's war choices should have ZERO to do with religion.

Some years ago America intervened in Kossovo to stop the genocide of the Albanian comunity
Most of my friends , here in Italy, said
" You see, the imperialists .."
I said
" Maybe it is just humanitar intervertion, this time"
"Hehh candid guy, they have their interst "
"What bloody interest can they have in kossovo ?"
"Well, uhmm, let's see...hum..they must have some... "

America behave sometime as a sort of "big brother"
Ok it may be annoying but that's it

If America wasn't founded at all, there would now be an empire with a third grand religion that would be an example of all the others!
Dances-with-the-wolves shall teach you!

Alrighty then...

I am NOT american. I am from Europe. Austria - a country that had its fair shares of ups and downs.

And since this Terrorism thread turned into an anti america thread, lets get some things in here...

Nowadays, it pretty comon to bash the US of A. Sure, we all use US stuff, watch US movies, US TV, listen to US music and are happy that we can have our US food with our US drinks. But we do not apreciate that.

No we bash the USA because it is a practical stint of showing that we are unhappy.
SO many things go wrong in the world, but we always blame the USA.

ANd now some idiots run around here and actually think that Osama is a fake, that 9/11 was a fake and that america is the big evil.

so we have countries in this world where more people get killed everyday by guns than in all of ameridca in an entire year. sure enough, africa has enough people, lets kill some more. and that was england down there that fucked shit up, not america.

half of the world beats itself up every day for things like religion. the other half beats itself up because some "leader" thinks he knows better. two thirds of the world are not even free enough to actually be allowed to marry the one you love. dont even get me started about women abuse and women rights.

but that all doesnt matter, because its not america.

tell you what: id rather have a dozen americas trying to police the world than one saudi arabia.
id rather have a hundet americans running around with guns than one RADICALLY BRAINWASHED islamic terrorist.
id rather have a thousand americas invading countries than one asian coutnry invading countries.

the problem is that, sure, america has a truckload of problems and is pretty quick with getting wars started, but the otehr countries are even worse.

north korea, iran, saudi arabia, afghanistan, palestina, israel, china, all thos countries are far worse than america. but its okay because tehy are other ethnicies we cant badmout them we be racists. fuck that hypocirsy. if a country does shit, it does shit. blaming america wont help...

oh and by the way, us europeans ever wondered why we can live as free as we do? well guess it was because the USA invaded us with the soviets. and after everything was said and done the soviets left us, tortured and killed the imprisoned soldiers and devastation was around. and what happened? the americans happened. helping out rebuilding...

and i am glad for that.
i am glad that america exists.

see now thats a good argument. personally like i said, i dont necessarily think taking saddam out of power was a bad idea, and if anybody did it, america would be the one. I just hate the fact that america was lied to about the intent, and that not only were they lied to, but they were dumb enought to believe it. WMD's... pfft.

After reading lots of history and current events from multiple sources, it seems to me that the real terrorists are the World Bank that hold most countries to ransom, with economical terrorism. The US served its purpose as the lackey (in plain view) and is now being internally destroyed.

There is no good argument for what have america done.i am from Turkey. We are in middle east and we alied with america. and trust me, we know what happend in iraq&afghanistan.

if there is a war in a zone, that effects in near countries. But some american's lover won't be able to get it.
i am not anti-american , i am not america's lover either. So i am not gonna kiss his ass.



This thread not about anti-america or just terorism. first question is;


so this thread about america's acts are terrorism or not.



We are turkish people. We know what's the real war and terrorism.we still fight against real terrorists. we fight against terrorists since 1978 but we never nuked innocent people or never killed them. And we still lost a turkish soldier and civilian everyday.



here is the real terrorists
here is the what they have done (+18)
here is the american soldiers
here is what they have done (+18)

THERE IS NO DIFFERENT!

i say, in my oppinion america's acts are real terrorism. i'am not unfair, i am not hypocritical, i am not blind either. i don't know you guys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

armenian genocide is only a claim but armenian deportation is true.

anyway i am talking about nowadays. i am from turkey not from ottoman empire. But i know why did you give this sample. Because you don't have any argument (or you don't know what's the different between ottoman empire and Republic of Turkey.) There is no make sense but if you want to sample from history, here is it. indian genocide oh and wiki of course

well, i can also say that i am from austria, not from the greater german reich.

i didn't mean that. i mean we are talking about nowadays.
we didn't kill innocent people as the Republic of Turkey. if we want to talk about history, i can say so much thing but it's useless for this topic. We are talking about what america has done in nowadays. So lets speak this topic.

sure, nowadays the usa is involved in a lot more nasty stuff than turkey or austria but if you go back to ww2 and hiroshima (what this topic started with) then going back 30 more years also isn't a big step anymore.

Congratulation! You catch the point
And America's act are america's policy. it still doesn't change right? it's not only a picture from history. it's not only a sample. There is no any change since 1945.

it's interesting to see how some people here try to justify politics of their countries, like they can change it or hold responsibility for it. i don't think that american civilians wanted to bomb japan, neither did germans in ww2 or muslims or anyone. it's always a relatively small group of people, that take such decisions, and usually none of them or their families will face real consequences of war.

i totally agree with you. we are civilian poeple. There is no reason to be enemy to each other. i believe there are a lot of democratic and humanist people in every countries. But some small groups are responsible for this wars. Mostly people are blind to see what this small groups have done. They think there is no problem on this world. That's a blindness or foolishness.

i am sick of most hollywood movies and pc games. Most of hollywood movies and pc games are just a propaganda. Their topic mostly is "there is a dictator in south america or africa, or middle east and USA give them democracy."
But that's a big lie. And i am really sick of this and people who can't see of this.

*MOST* would be a huge overstatement...

also, half of africa is full of warlords and there are a lot of dictators and drug lords in south america.. the setting is not that wrong.

one may argue that the way america handles things are wrong. but at least they do something. unlike most other nations...

sure, lets help people. just dont do anything. hypocrisy everywhere.

and last but not least: if some idiots would just stop acting moronic and if their own people would do something (like egypt) then america wouldnt have to do anything in the first place...

if you are talking about hollywood i think we don't talk about same holyywood .
if you are talking about blindness people, i think you are the best sample for this people. i understand you, really...

Do you have any idea who supported that dictators? Who sells weapon them?
Do you know how much goverments of the world responsible for the drug and gun dealing? Do you really beleive that democracy came to iraq when usa bombed iraq?
Do you know how many innocent civilian are killed and tortured in iraq? (18+)
Do you know what happend in ebu gurayb? (18+)
I realized you don't have any idea about world.


Also, ignorance and cringe are everywhere.

And finally, i am also worry about some american soldiers. Because they have a family and they are deceived (by their goverment) and they don't know what is the real war. That soldiers die for nothing. Real war don't like pc games. Real war is here (18+).

But you don't care right? Because you are safe in europe now.
You can still talking or farting about democracy and hypocrisy and whatever.

Eh. This is pretty much what I think of this thread now:

that too. I think if a place disagrees with thier current state, they should be revolting. if they arent, im not sure its our place to come in and intervene. some people even if they are oppressed for some reason believe thats the way life is supposed to believe. a lot of people still believe in a theological government, and if they do, why not just let them.

@redeemer. lol that was pretty funny.

shame... but not surprising.

You must relized that, some people can't accept to play three monkeys and truth is bitter. I said that i need to say.
Case closed for me.

Funny how some people desipce the west and everythign we got but still try to live like us, do the things we do and still bitch about us...

as redeemer said...
haters gonna hate...

excuse me now, i have to fart -.-

I'm not trying to leave like people on the West... Never tried and never will!
I have my own culture which is more richer than the one that people have in West.
To be honest, I don't even really see any culture in USA, I've spent there around half of year, example:
Swimming pool near small motel, father and her doughter are taking sunbath..
Everything looks great, except that his daughter is topless... And his father is giving some compliments about his daughter's boobs...
Where is culture here? If you want to see culture go to Europe! Or even better visite Caucasus, there is a culture!
Even I can say that people in USA (not all sure, but most) aren't pragmatic at all. You ask why? Take for example suiciders.
In USA there are about 25 000 - 35 000 self-killer each year! Resently cause of economic crysis, that numbers have increased! Why?
As some of them which failed to kill themselfs said, we don't know how to live, we have no job, no money, no reason to live.
How many mental patient are there in USA? What is the reason for that? Why kids are leaving they parent in "homes for the aged"?
You know what? I think people with IQ bigger than chicken, will never want to leave like people do live in West... No way to regress...
Still, sorry for offtopic.

Theres no need to even try discussing the culturelessnes of the USA - what can they show? Everything important that EVER was created in art, music, literature, history came from Eurasia. Sure, there were Presley and Hemmingway, but those really arent that big of a deal. The only thing USA ever did was forcing weaker nations into war and exploit them.
Yes, I hate the USA, and I know that the world would be a better place without them.
And I respect the suicide bomber willing to die for a desperate attempt to save his family, culture, values (no matter how fucked up they seem), his country - those people dont kill because they believe in fairy tales about "99 virgins", they kill and die because their life is taken from them by western invaders. Sure, what they do is wrong, no need to discuss that - but US marines invading other countries are wrong too, and there is nothing remotely heroic about them.

Wait, this thread is still going?

god you people so have no idea what you are talking about its nopt even funny anymore... and i usually laugh about you guys...

Dude, there is no much thing to laugh about... Just go outside... If everything that you'll see out side will make you laugh, poor you...
BTW I'm not saying that there are no good people in those countries... I have a lot of friends from Australia and the USA!

wow i too had no idea this is still going. and there is(was) american culture, but over the last few generations the ability for the general masses to have critical thinking skills has went to complete craps. now everyones focus is on shit like justin bieber and charlie sheen(who incidentally i dont understand why is getting so much crap. he has lots of money... hes enjoying his life... we dont live forever and why does everyone think that thier way of life is better for him than how he lives his. maybe he enjoys it more) wow that went way off topic *gets ready to repost last part in morbius*

In my post which was addressed to sPlKe I didn't say a word about Justin Bieber (gay) and Charlie Sheen...
There are good (great) people in America, but not much left... it's hard to find one.
May be using "America" here isn't right, cause all countries and nations (there is no nation like American for me) has good and bad persons.
But my post was about "trying to living like people in West".. I'm not trying, as I said there is no visible reason, never saw people which ever tried...

Have you thought for a month in order to write this?


No. Your friend (Spike) didn't bump this thread after three weeks, you are hallucinating now.


Yes sure.

Yes this thread is still going because of you children. As i said it's shame but not suprising after that i gave that post .When you grow, you realize that inhuman treatments are bad for any country for any human. One day same things may happen to you. That is not important who you are or what's your country. i think you are so young to click the links that i gave or you are so naive to understand you are seeing.

As i said case closed for me. Please do not bump this thread every month. i am too bussy to teach you that how is the real world, how is the real life, what is the humanity etc. if you have any problem about that topics, you can ask your parents, they can teach you. If they can't (because every person hasn't same viewpoint ) ask your teachers. As i said i believe there are a lot of wise people in every country.

Until that time don't talk about adult topics and do not disgrace yourselves.

Ok, I think this thread has gone for too long now. Do I hear Mr. Lock?

agreed.

Maybe, the thread had to fail because of the provoking start.
Still, it had become an exchange of different views on certain world politics.
Some statements seemed to be misunderstood, which resulted in hurt feelings, and caused insulting statements in return, causing other insults or bad ass habits.
Most shocking to me was Redeemer's reply with the picture to a serious post about consequences of the Iraq War. (Didn't understood it right away, because I couldn't imagine such a provoking gesture.)

I don't see a reason to condemn the politics of the USA in general, there have been good presidents and good decisions, too.

There is no general 'this nation is doing everything bad', as the opposite isn't either true.
The USA have been involved in more conflicts actively, resulting in 'more guilt in doing wrong', while others are more guilty in doing nothing.


You always have to look into detail of a given conflict and how it is connected to other conflicts.
Each nation is complex in its own, and it is more promising to find out the different ways how their decisions evolved to get a clear sight on their acting than to state that a certain nation has general 'properties'.

The target should be to find ideas about how to collaborate with the people of each country who care about how the world goes on... Talking respectfully with each other, explaining their point of views and collecting information to improve their concept of the political reality is a first step.
Could have happen in this tread, too - but didn't...

The picture wasn't put up to taunt the victims of the Iraq war. It represented my realization that the OP is not willing to change his mind based on anything I said.

I fully agree with Pappenheimer, but think twice before saying that everyone tries to live like people in West!

3run, that's the problem of sentences with 'everyone', 'all', 'always' - we don't know who is actually meant. In case of 'to live like in the west' there are actually a lot of people who dream of that - not such a bad dream, when living in poverty or under dictatorship like the fugitives who try to get to Europe...
Let's call it 'to be free to live one's own way of life'.
It wasn't possible to decipher it that way.
Anyway, in discussions it is easy to get that impression of one's opponent, but don't expect a change of the others opinion right within the discussion.
Beliefs are not meant to be skipped or switched after one argument, they have settled within a certain time, and changes have to grow over time while weighting such argument in comparison with other beliefs which seem to contradict.

I'm not sure you can say that, when spike understood the meaning perfectly. :\

But like I said before, there's no point in continuing this thread. Signing off...

But When you read carfully, you will lern alot of this thread.
Just for exsample;
We started to talk over amerika and what happend?
We started to ask us amerika and terrorisum or freedoms fighter?
We found out or alredy know that a freedom fighter is the same as a terrorist, it just depense on with aspeckt you see it.
To be honest, I know from the begining this threand will go in a totaly diffrent direction.
I meen how could a disscusion about this term could stay good
I don`t whant to attack somebody, thats why I say neutral.
Hate = Terrorisum/Freedoms fighter = Fear = control...
Easy way to get power, isènt it?