Untitled Platformer - Artists' corner

Team members, please discuss anything that has to do with graphics, etc here.

This is great Now we can focus more on graphics and I feel we can make something really good.

I believe we should, at the beginning, choose among different global art directions for the game. I know that all the decisions we make here will have to be checked with programming team but I think we should come up with the best graphical solution and then see if it can be implemented.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

ArtPad is up
http://etherpad.com/qO7uSEtQPl

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Availability -> How much time you're willing to and able to put into the project. I think George Mentioned this because the lead artist needs to be able to spent a little more time on this than the other team members.

George also mentioned using c_move in the other project. As we don't have any 2d-Collision Engine to work with, the game itself should be 3d, if I'm not mistaken. Of course, we can still use sprites here, to make it 2d after all, but using 3d collision hulls. In combination with an isometric view, we could make it look like 2d.
Full 3d will be too much work I believe:
http://trine-thegame.com/site/media/screenshots/trine_screenshot_2009_06_knight_mines_hammer.jpg
At least the backdrop should be 2d, the playing level 3d (collision, c_move) and then we can maybe put more 2d objects on a layer infront of that (grass, clouds, a tree).
Sort of like this:
http://www11.picfront.org/token/y4KU/2010/02/08/1757699.jpg
The further away the sprite is from the camera, the more blurred it should be.
(and tell me if this is nonesense. I just think creating so much 3d art work is too much, and this could be an easy way to stylize the game and make it look good nonetheless.)

Another part that's very important to take into account here is that we need to know all the people who'll do 3d work and who'll do 2d work...
As mentioned in the Email, I'll go for 2d, as I'm more experienced with that.

I guess your right. If someone is to be lead artist he should be able to put more hours in project development then others.

Yes, I forgotten about that- we should have all people say in what segment/segments they think they can contribute most:

1.3D static environment modeling
2.3D character modeling
3.3D animations
4.2D static environment drawing
5.2D characters drawing & animating
6.Texture making
7.Lightning the 3D environment
8.2D panels & menus

I added your suggestion to my first post as number 5 and added similar structure as number 6.

I agree that 3D work would be much slower to do but we must see how many people here are capable of doing commercially adequate 2D work. 2D is easier to do if people are skilled but it's completely impossible to do if people are not. Its better to do 3D if we don't have many 2D artists.

The idea with the 2d sprites moving in the backround/foreground is a good idea.
Watching some of the demo videos from Superku, I wonder if we are trying to create the levels with some kind of realism (for example a castle, a skyscraper or a forest) or are we just going to make big caves/tunnel systems?

About 2D/3D, there's no need to limit ourselves because collision detection e.d. is not possible. I have written simple complete 2D collision detection in two hours last night. That's peanuts.

Joozey: Wicked. How "simple" is it? Like, can it be used for any surfaces? Or just straight surfaces? Any Demo video of a character walking (or just moving) around using your 2d collision?
I still think George wanted to use 3d work though. And I wouldn't mind. I think we could use more predefined functions (c_scan, c_trace...)

Then the "who can do what" argument Ganderoleg posted still seems to be the one that'll decide everything.

BUG, we won't know until the team has decided on the theme... really depends on the game idea.

Ganderoleg, from your list, I can do:
1.3D static environment modeling
4.2D static environment drawing
5.2D characters drawing & animating
6.Texture making
8.2D Menus and Panels

And as for the Art-Style, I'd go for:
5.3D characters & combination of 2D/3D environment

We can always still decide whether only the background is 2d (the distant objects) or all objects infront of the player... etc.

Hi team!

You are all right. There are a lot of unaswered questions. Let's speak about what we can do around the project.

I spoke about texturing. I think it is my best chance. I have played with game stuff for years and i think i can try all categories but not professionally.

I worked some years at sign industry and i can draw a linear and plain colored style with some (not great) skills. I think it could get us to find an easy stylized group developed 2D art.

http://partidabierta.com/superku/chica.gif
http://partidabierta.com/superku/bano.gif

The only game producing experience i have is in front of my pc screen, alone, learning and learning. I have never finished a game, because i was not really interested in.

i also agrre that 3d work would much slower.

Salud!

Maybe we should try to get to know each other through our artworks, similar to Txesmi's post but, maybe, a bit more concrete.I don't know how many of us have some sort of portfolios but I don't think that we really need that kind of documents in this situation. I believe we should just follow the things that we need & the things that we can do.

If you don't find it too simple, in my opinion, we could start with something like short post of our interests and abilities. This way we could determine who would be the best for what art segment/segments of project development, and, at the same time, maybe determine who would be the most appropriate for coordinating the art team as George suggested.

GANDEROLEG

ARTWORK EXAMPLES

1.3D static environment modeling
http://www.filefront.com/15331635/Sorcerers.zip
(no need to download this if you already played my Sorcerers example application)

2.3D character modeling
Not yet done but I will be finishing my first fully modeled, rigged, uv mapped, textured and animated model in a day or two and contribute it to GS community together with one small FPS game-level.

3.3D animations
*Same zip as 1.3D static environment modeling.
+example of 3D animated cut-scene:
http://www.filefront.com/15432515/2DExamples.zip

4.2D static environment drawing
I don't have anything game-related at this moment but I will update this segment until the end of the week.

5.2D characters drawing & animating
*Same zip as 3.3D animations.

6.Texture making

7.Lightning the 3D environment
*Same zip as 1.3D static environment modeling.

8.2D panels & menus

9.General artworks not necessarily related to whats required for this project
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr3aje5aux0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu_X4PUcY4s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdUCAIZDRhE
http://www.opserver.de/ubb7/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showgallery&Number=272353&page=7
http://www.opserver.de/ubb7/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=283614
http://www.opserver.de/ubb7/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=289779

GAME DIRECTION

I agree with all visual game-directions stated (1,2,3,4,5 & 6).

I also think the game should be 3D characters & combination of 2D/3D environments. I believe I can help with creating level geometry. Here are a few links to some of my work.VR Portfolio and Experimental games. Ganderoleg, I'm not sure if you already mentioned the amount of time you can put into this project, but you put forth some pretty impressive work already and I think you have a good sense on how the project artwork can be organized. Maybe you'd be up to being Artist Leader?

Thanx SirCamaris for kind words- I checked your links & it all looks very nice. I like the geologist astronomer & timepiece the best.

I have made the EtherPad (it's on the first page in my first post) the same way that Firoball did in the previous topic to keep things visible, simple & editable.
I added the first three questions and added the artists from George's list with their, so far, expressed & posted opinions & artworks. I know that Txesmi also posted artwork (and it's very good) but he wrote that he is interested in texture making segment and the artwork he posted is not of that kind.

Question concerning the art team coordinator is also in EtherPad and every team member can say what he think is the best solution and put his choice. As for me- time would not be the problem

Artwork. Allright. Hm.
Besides the Concept Images I posted in the other thread, here goes:

Very old sketching: (2005?)
http://germanunkol.deviantart.com/art/Left-Handed-43258046

Static Modeling (was going to rig this but my hard drive died and now the model's gone.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-1tFxLroXw

Heads Up Display work:
http://img715.yfrog.com/img715/4324/layoutidea02.jpg

Random 2d work:
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5055/planettexture.jpg

Character scetching:
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/4984/12955685.jpg

Random 3d Work:
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/6754/vrexwipback.jpg
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6417/vrexwip18.jpg

Character Modeling:
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/7089/dude02png.jpg

Edit: Ganderoleg also has my vote for team leader...

These are great Concerning your 2D work you seem to have a very good eye for shadows(first image: hands), body proportion & colors(fifth image: girl). I had few doubts about proportion in your work when you posted earlier, in previous thread, but it looks like I was very wrong about it. Also your modeling(motorcycle) looks very professional.

As for textures, in my opinion, maybe planet wasn't the best choice since will probably need mainly seamless textures, and I would love to have seen some 2D environment(architectural or nature) but your here displayed artwork is very good. You could maybe also consider doing the No.8 / 2D panels & menus.

TXESMI
many people calls me txes (it sounds like chess)

ARWORK EXAMPLES

1. 3d static enviroment modeling
CS:S Map video - CS:S Map download
art concept
lowpoly spaceship
lowpoly plane

2. 3D character modeling +
3. 3D animations
clip bug
lowpoly pelotagame player model - pelota gameplay video
lowpoly san fermin

4. 2D static environment drawing
linear drawing - more isometric linear drawing

5. 2D characters drawing & animating
old rpg style walking animations
code based character animations - character 1 - character 2 - character 3 - character 4

6. Texture making
texture 1 - texture 2 - texture 3 - texture 4 - texture 5 - texture 6

7. Lightning the 3D environment

8. 2D panels & menus
minimal style

9. General artworks not necessarily related to whats required for this project
my xoops theme (work in progress)
my game site (also my theme)

GAME DIRECTION

all game directions will be ok for me.

Your welcome Ganderoleg. Thank you for your remarks. As for my projects, I'm not sure if you downloaded any of them, the only code I had in there was default.c. Also, I created those models before the 3ds/fbx import for WED was available so I used a level exporter with Truespace. It was limited in that it only exported convex objects. I haven't tried exporting curved objects with 3ds/fbx importer yet. I don't think the smooth option in Wed works with the Extra version, which is what I have. So far I've created two levels; one has staircases and ladders, the other has stones that drop from the ceiling in anticipation of using a Quake ability. I've only used George's model for both, but will need to know what type and size player model/s we will be using. It seems that the brother/sister theme is what others are leaning toward. The sooner this is decided (and there is no immediate rush), the sooner I can taylor level creation toward them.

@Txes(it's shorter )

I am really impressed with the artwork you presented, and, now, I also remember seeing your Pelota game some time ago on the forum. The only thing I couldn't check out is the CS map(level) since I uninstalled my copy of CS, and my cd is nowhere to be found. I did check the video & screens: they look very, very professional.
If I had to pick a favorite artwork among all of them it would be the clip bug
Also the code-based characters look real innovative and fun.

*I have changed your artwork-post link in EtherPad since it linked, for some reason, to one of my replies.

@SirCamaris

Yes I tried all of them & they all have very good & original feel.
As for our game levels- we shouldn't jump before we set the global game design & mood and, most importantly, the art pipeline. If there is to be 100 levels we need to make sure that we have all levels visually balanced. That's not so much question of geometry, if levels are full/partial 3D, but mainly question of unified textures & lightning, and, if we have no 3D geometry but only 2D images, mainly question of unified art style.

Ganderoleg, I was going to add 8. 2D Panels and Menus as well, but I forgot. I added it to the list in my post above.

I think George's most recent posts leaned towards the sister+little brother idea, and I think that's the one most people are voting for atm. The initial idea went along with a dreamy/nightmare art-style. Since I've only seen people speak against "horror" theme, I'd say we should take out or limit the "nightmare" part, and focus on "dreamy" as a general art-direction.
Ratchet posted this link in the other thread:
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2008/219/reviews/943284_20080807_screen003.jpg
and while I, for some reason, dislike the foreground and player character, I really like the background on this one.

Recently Hummel posted light shafts (http://www.opserver.de/ubb7/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=307327#Post307327 ) on this forum which we could use; if not overdone, they could work nicely with a bright background and a darker foreground.
As George (and others) voted against horror/nightmare, I think we should not make the foreground black, but I wouldn’t mind a high contrast between beautiful colors in the background and a dark-ish/shadowy style for the foreground.

wow it's really nice see community actually has some very talented artists. can't wait to see your contrubitions to the project guys(and girls).

*sorry for being kind of off topic.

@Germanunkol

Yes I was under the same impression about the sister/little brother & cutting out the horror parts. I, personally, would also include the dark divinity- that way we could have the bad guy in the game and have a cool dynamic when it comes to cut-scenes.

I think those light shafts would be interesting to have in some parts of outside levels or in inside levels coming out of the windows. I also wanted to implement Shade-C.

...
But I think we should consider all of this step by step. We haven't yet heard from all team members what they would like to do for the project or what they think the general 2D/3D game direction should be. We haven't even made an art pipeline yet and all of this should also be checked with programming team.
I think we should all be heard and that each step should be cleared with all of us through the voting process as we are doing with first three questions. We are all important parts of the team and each voice should be as loud as the other.
There is no need to speed things up by putting too many ideas and suggestions on the table since that will always end up in hundreds of different opinions and hundreds of posts leading to nowhere. I believe that when we clear up one step we then take another

Wow, you people write a lot .
Not read the thread, but to answer the question:


Well fairly simple, of course it needs to be programmed from scratch (though I saw someone contributed a 2D physics package, not looked into it yet though). Surfaces can be curved, but the more accurate you want it, the heavier it gets for the CPU (I'm personally not that good in optimisation).

Uh, at hand I have a youtube of a walking pixel girl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMehNKAAmok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuHLKXZ_jcA

Youtube may bug a little, just click a bit further on the timeline to remove the strange flickering loading icon.

Thanks. I'm also impressed with your great works. Sincerelly, a bit scared to be up to this task.

@Ganderoleg
I also voted you as lead, are you agree? i think it is very important.

@Joozey

It's very inspiring video. We should definitely consider making one of the abilities that player has to be the ability to change un-passable scenery to passable.

@Txes

Thank you for nice words about my work & for your vote. I'm super-scared but I see we all have lots of talents so- if we play this right we cannot miss(...by very far ).

...
Maybe we could set the near-future step pipeline at this time:

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
What we have so far:

AC Choosing the team coordinator
//simple voting for team member

A Getting to know each other art-abilities and choosing the segment that each of us would like to participate in
//posting our artwork & voting for development segment we want to do

B Choosing the general game technique direction
//vote for 2D,3D or combinations


What we will have to do next:

C Choosing the game design/style(most difficult of all)
//doing the sketches & small levels, making the raw example materials with explanations. Voting for posted styles or combinations of different posted styles

D Deciding on team function-structure
//who will do what and to what extent. This is not so much a question of voting but more question of interest, ability or agreeing to something you are maybe not so exited to do

E Choosing the best art pipeline for technique
//seeing what programs/formats/techniques are the most appropriate for our project, what programs we all have/are familiar with & what programs are free/open source and can be downloaded & used
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

After this we can then see with the entire game team what is the story, game-play, levels number/structure...

If anyone feels that there is a missing step somewhere, or some step should be divided to more steps please feel free to state your opinion. I don't think we should put this in Ether Pad, to keep it clean and simple, but should post our observations and suggestions as replies.

I think half of your last post should go into the gamedesign thread as well, Ganderoleg. As you mentioned, we can't decide these things without the rest of the team, and making any art-decisions without the programming team would lead nowhere, so we have to wait for them. Georges first request was, however, that we'd vote a team leader. Maybe he's waiting for that before making further decisions. So let's do that... how? Here? You're the only one nominated so far and the only one who seems to have the time, ability and, most important, the votes atm.

AC Choosing the team coordinator:
Two or three of the other team members haven't shown or replied yet, so they're probably those who george mentioned who don't have time yet but will join later. So I think, if Ganderoleg (and no other team members) dont't have any objections, he's now elected to be the artist-team-leader?
If no one writes any objections, I'll mail George "our" decision.

If this is too fast for anyone, sorry... but I feel all the other things we need to vote on sort of depend on this one, so I'm rushing it. I really wanna get going (or drawing)

While everyone already showed some pics or sketches form his/her works, I might also give you a little impression:

The first 4 pics are from an early, rough city level with A7 which I worked for some weeks but never finished (due to lack of time). Most of the buildings can be entered (all factories and a white house).

http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd309/Silencium17/?action=view&current=City.jpg
http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd309/Silencium17/?action=view&current=Church1.jpg
http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd309/Silencium17/?action=view&current=Factory1.jpg
http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd309/Silencium17/?action=view&current=Factory2.jpg

I also designed some levels for "Thief2" (and I'm currently working on one)

http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd309...01018_09_52.jpg
http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd309/Silencium17/?action=view&current=3-2.jpg
http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd309/Silencium17/?action=view&current=4-1.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd309/Silencium17/1-4.jpg

EDIT: And I also think that Ganderoleg should be the lead-artist.

totally necessary.

@Germanunkol
I also agree that art team coordinator should be chosen but since were having some trouble with activity from number of team members I don't know what should be done. I could take on the coordination of the art team now and then, if things with votes change, will see what to do next. If there will be no changes in activity until tomorrow evening I will send email to George to see what he thinks.

...
I believe that every step after the first two(AC & A) should be checked and every decision molded with the programming team since we can't say what they can/can't do with the code(without damaging the gameplay). Also the question of art style is not important only to us but, I think, to all of the team members.

@Bug
I like your work, it seems to be very good- I especially like the last two screens from your Thief2 level.
I don't see your name in the art team list so you should first contact George at george@acknex.net if you would like to get on board. Thanx for your vote

i vote for Ganderoleg as lead.

Hi guys below are a couple links to some of my Art work. I have been working with gamestudio for many years. I can do 2d and 3d artwork. I can only spend a few hours a week on this project but would be happiest doing small modeling or art jobs.

A few of my models and a free game at turbosquid

A small gallery of mine on cgtalk


On a personal note I won't be part of the project if it contains satanic or cultic Iconography. Just not my thing.

Looking forward to some fun Guardian.

@Ganderoleg:
George accidently added my name from Yahoo instead from this bord. I'll contact him to change it. Didn't noticed this until now

@Guardian:
Nice artwork! The "Death in Space" one looks awesome!

Hi friends,

I can't wait. I know that are tons of thing to decide (f.e:2D or 3D) but i have worked in a 2D sister for around 5 hours. I need know how far my knowledge can go.
little girl character test 1

I think she is wonderfull! i'll try background next time.

Salud!

Just a note, if you have any technical related uncertainties, do post in the programmer thread so the programmers can answer directly. At least for me; I do not read this thread, I just wait for solid plans to execute . Even the smallest questions are welcome, but do make contacts and communicate at any uncertainties!

Regards,
Joozey

wow - very nice, you have much talent

BUG, you need to delete the second "http//" in the link, then it works.

the girl character looks very nice, the seam is freaky, but I like the style.

Joozey, we're all waiting for decisions, really. That's why I tried to post a post in the ideas thread, that was supposed to summarize everything we have so far and help make some decisions, but it just resulted in more ideas... which were all good, but it didn't help us get started. I think we need george to say a clear "yes" to some idea...

Hello Art Team,

It seems I have been voted, by more then a half of team members, for art-team coordinator & I just wanted to say that I'm very pleased and exited to coordinate this project's art segment

I just noticed that in my profile email is still ganderoleg@yahoo.com that I don't use anymore so I'm really sorry if some of you sent me something on that address.

My new email is:
nikolic_pavle@live.com
You can say, ask or consult with whatever you want at any time.


@Guardian
I really liked your models & textures, and, at this moment I am downloading your game-level.
...but if I have to pick your strongest point it would be the second link. You really have lot of talent when it comes to 2D art. Images you posted are art in the truest sense.

...and just a few words more...
I now I was, among few others, the one who made story/art suggestions that have some of the elements that you find not suited for this project. I just wanted to make clear that all of them were just the art-expressions that have only visual/storyline/aesthetic value and that they are not to be mistaken with my personal religious/cultural beliefs. I am sorry if some of the material/ideas I posted seemed anti-Christian, that was not my intention.

@Bug
I added your artwork link and AC vote to ArtPad but I didn't know what exactly to put in other (A,B) columns.

oh, my mistake:
A: I would serve as a level designer if that's fine
B: Hard to choose, but I would say that we should/could use a 3D environment combined with 2D sprites in the foreground/backround. So, I vote for a combination of both

O.k. if I get it your for:

Leveling/
1.    3D static environment modeling
4.    2D static environment drawing
7.    Lightning the 3D environment

Visual direction/
6.     2D characters & combination of 2D/3D environment

I placed it in ArtPad- feel free to change it if a made a error with choices.

I see, and I think so too :P, or just any other lead that steps up and says "we'll do this!" ^^.

Ganderoleg, maybe he meant:
Visual direction/
3D characters & combination of 2D/3D environment
?

Yes that could be. In fact that was also my first guess but he said “3D environment combined with 2D sprites ”- that seems more like No.6. I hope he will change it if he meant No.5.

Btw- I don't know if Superku decided to quit the project? His name is not in team list & I remember reading somewhere that he is the coordinator of the programming team but if you go to the Untitled platformer - team members(i just been there) you'll see that programmers have to choose programming team leader. Very strange.

Hi guys, thanks for the nice comments. txesmi, I like your little girl test also “without the stitches”.

Maybe we can do some more of this kind of artistic brain storming or concept work till we get the go ahead or a better Idea of direction.

Ganderoleg thank-you for addressing my concerns I just wanted to be up-front with things so not to cause any fuss later on.

Waiting to see what’s next.

Guardian

hi team, i believe that those brain storming are indispensable.
Let's start!

When i work with designers, we usually write a list of descriptive words and we discuss about their suitability one by one. We personally score all words (0-10) and we clarify witch attributes are best for the proyect. Then, team leader takes a decision. Normally she is who has spoken with customers, and who better knows what the proyect needs. I think lead decision is very important because we can't all be agree.

I apreciate your suggestions of drawing. I can change easily stitches by a little nose. It is done.

Salud!

Hello art team,

we have instructions to speed things up so I believe there is a solution to get all things we need to do in one giant swoop. We need to build the level prototype, sett the project's visual design & at the same time see who will be more efficient at what. So here it is:

We will use George's 4 levels from Superku folder (from AUM) as a template levels, since all the wmp files are included, and The Forest Temple game is very similar to George's level concept.

Everyone from the artist team should try to design one(or all four) level using George's Superku application (wmp files) as a templates.

We are allowed to do anything(visually & with geometry) as long as it doesn't disturb the gameplay, level size or camera position(think of it as a stage setting in theater). Also 4 levels could have 4 different art styles but you don't have to do all 4 levels if you don't want to. Fell free to use blocks, mdl/wmb formats or panels.

Player model can also be replaced if someone wants to display modeling&animating ability but if you replace the model he must have walk, stand & death animations. If the player is 2D,you should create him as a single file( player+21.tga) & just put him in separate folder marked Player. Also we can add enemies that don't interact with player but stand and loop their animations.

Also there should be a Focus note(LevelFocus.txt) together with levels where creator can put what he wants the people to focus on when evaluating his levels. That way the artist will be able to put his strength into the graphical segment he thinks he can do best & leave the other segments to others.

A. Level(2D) //focus on level(images) if it's made in 2D
B. Level(3D) //focus on level geometry if it's made in 3D
C. Level props (2D) //focus on 2D level props
D. Level props (3D) //focus on 3D level props
E. Backgrounds(2D) //focus on quality of background images
F. Textures //focus on texture quality
G. Player(3D) //focus on player model & animation
H. Enemies(3D) //focus on enemies models & animations

That way, after the choosing of the best combination of artwork from levels(Artist_X:textures, Artist_Y:level props...) there will be immediately visible who will work on what part of the project graphics. I believe that all levels should have one theme so that we can easily compare the styles and design. Let's say the theme is castle(futuristic, medieval, ancient...).

If someone has some questions/suggestions we will wait until the Saturday evening and then it's on.

Best of luck to us all.

...just wanted to add that disturbing the gameplay means that player must be able to do all the actions that he must do in a level in order to exit, and level size means level-frame size. Camera position & arc also should not be changed.

As for other things: you can make player bigger, or rearrange the platforms, make the platforms bigger, make doors smaller or bigger... what ever you find to fit your level design idea

Sorry but i can't understand at all. I understand that the level has to be seen at once in the screen like in AUM superku and the forest temple, is it right? no side scrolling?

Another little question: when you write player+21.tga, are you stablishing animations to 7 frames each or is it just an example?

One more: must presented style designs be playable as a level? with puzzles etc?

When is the rough deadline of this step?

Sorry but my wellthunbed collins doesn't help me in many cases

i am a bit overwhelmed, and i dont know where i fit in here. what can i do to help?

@Txes

*Yes, The Forest Temple is somewhat of a guideline so, for now, we should avoid side-scrolling, and this way, when is finished, it will be easier to compare our level designs.
*Player+21.tga is just example. It can be +X.
*We should use George's 4 levels (level1.wmp to level4.wmp) as templates- so were inheriting the playability. Only things that are to stay the same are: gameplay, level-frame size & camera. You just take, let's say, level1.wmp and redesign it.
*We didn't establish the deadline but I guess we should all finish our design proposals in about 7-10 days time. It's not yet set.

@Blink

Everyone from the artist team should try to design one(or all four) level using George's Superku application as a template. As I sad, each member of the team can make his own focus while creating his level/levels- so you needn't pay much attention to the things that you feel you don't wanna do.

…
I didn't mention the music because it's not part of visual design but it can, of course, be changed also.

My pc is at the moment under the virus & I'm afraid that problems are becoming severe so I will have to take some actions This will make me unreachable for at least 24h or more since I must do virus scannings and maybe even repair or reinstall my Xp.

…
The thing I failed to mention is that the player, if you are going to replace George's player model, should be replaced with model of brother or sister character. Since you are free to make four different level-style designs, it will be impossible to make him fit to all of them(i think? ).

So, if you are making more then one level-design solution, unless you are willing to make more then one player-design solution(and use ent_morph or something), you should make your player model fit the style of your first level or put note in Focus text to what level player is designed to correspond to. If you haven't made him to correspond to any design presented in you levels, just put 0 in you Focus text.
If your doing the 2D player you should also do the same thing.

...and most important note...
The main thing here is functionality & concept unity. Every member of the team should be able to just run George's Superku application, that you redesigned, and play your redesigned levels as they are meant to be played in their original state(doesn't have to be exactly the same as I already mentioned).
We are to redesign the visual elements not gameplay, main level concepts or camera-views.

Have a nice art-dayS

I just seen (and played) SirCamaris redesigned level No.1 and I must say that's exactly what I had in mind when it comes to redesigning

He preserved the gameplay(changed it a bit without damaging the main concept), preserved the level-frame size, preserved camera position and created the new level geometry solution, which is also the focus of his design.

I have only one concern regarding his gameplay modification, since it haven't yet been decided if we are to go with 3D or 2D characters(and level-depth could potentially be the problem when it comes to 2D animated characters), but that's something that we are all to discuss later on...

Thanks for the compliment Ganderoleg. I just uploaded two more levels on the sky-drive. I tried experimenting with the time shift ability and how it affects the environment. I'm not sure if using a 2D player will affect depth perception that much, player sprite should recede into distance when moving in that direction. So far, the 3D model appears to work well.

@SirCamaris
I liked your two new levels, the hole level & spike level ...but I must admit that your first geometry design was much more advanced & impressionable. It seems you are turning your attention more on project gameplay and programming then on project design. I may be wrong, but your new two levels should have been more geometry-driven since your design Focus is level geometry.

You are right about 2D characters- when I gave it more time I realized that there shouldn't be any problems. I'm sure that, with good programming, they can work with depth-levels just as good as the 3D model.

@Txes
I downloaded your first level redesign and it is great!
I like the way you managed to get rid of level square-frame and still preserve the level-frame size.
My personal, overall impression of the style is very positive: colors are well balanced, details are nicely blended and your layer system is both very discrete and very precisely contrasted.

There is just one thing: you have replaced the 3D boy character with your 2D sister character but she doesn't have any animations There is nothing in your Focus about it so I don't know if you are planning to animate her and present her as your main player character design or she is there just for fun.

@Ganderoleg
Thank you for your comments. You are right; I did step aside from my original focus to experiment with gameplay. I will do better to make future levels more like the original.

@Txes
I tried your level and think your graphics are great. I didn't examine your code that closely, but I'm gussing that you placed panels with level images on top of your geometry. If we can somehow combine both of our techniques, maybe we can develop a method which guides all of our level making going forward.

Hello everyone,

I added one more level (the fourth) to the untitled platformer demo. This level, as per Ganderoleg's suggestion, returns to my original focus, which is geometry. You can download it on the sky-drive under 2/15/10.zip. I had re-uploaded the original file with the fourth level addition. Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause. I appreciate your continued feedback. Any suggestions to make things better, let me know. SirCamaris

Woot! Love the whole "find the hidden passage" thing. We should definitely go for multi-lane, if that's possible. Problem is that it really doesn't work with an isometric view.

Even without the 2d walking we could still hide passages though, using geometry infront of the passage...

Just wanted to let you know that I have checked out SirCamaris' and Txesmi's work and I liked it a lot. Keep up the good work, guys!

Hi friends,
i'm really glad for your words. They tranquillize me somehow.

@SirCamaris
You are right: The panel clones block geometry. I'm focused in visuals so our works are totally mixable!

@Ganderoleg
I've to admit that i inserted my little girl for certain that she was against design instructions, but i have not any 2D character example to work with. Anyway, she is a clear example of how pure colors (Red, green & blue) fit on my design.

I've never properly animated a character so i can't focus my work on this task. I could try it but i'm certainly better on 2D enviroment drawing. I would like to know if someone in the team is drawing a 2D or 3D character. What do you think? Should i try it?

Next day (i think thursday) i will try to complete my level with elements like a gem, a box, a button, a lever, etc, with simple animations and i will try to include almost one dynamic hornamental effect. I don't think that i have enought time to finish all my proposals but i will try to take time below stones.

@ Txesmi
Yes, I'd say please try making the character. The more ideas we have to choose from, the better, and right now we have none

As for cloning the level geometry using sprites: My art example uses the exact same method. Problem I'm having right now: how do you place it in the level? Drawing the thing and then adjusting the level geometry to it is rather a pain because WED doesn't show the contents of sprites, only rectangles... or am I wrong?

We could get screenshots of the level geometry and then draw on those screenshots, but that's a long process as well, depending on how many levels we make.
I'm thinking about a way to code it: if you have a transparent image maybe we could make 3dgs place blocks (map entities) wherever the image is not transparent... that sort of thing...

@Txes
I agree with Germanunkol- the more artwork to choose from the better. I will also try to make my 2D/3D character design proposals and I hope that there will be a few more.

@Germanunkol
The automatic filling of the non-transparent parts of the panel with geometry is a great idea ..but we shouldn't rush with this code, since it hasn't yet been decided if game is going to have 2D or 3D levels. But if George and our two teams decide on 2D levels we should consider it to be one of the options. I'm sure that, if this can be done, George or someone from the programmers team will know how to do it.

@SirCamaris
Your last level is really lots of fun I believe that level-depth should definitely be considered as a must in this project regardless of environment concept(2D/3D).

Comrades, i'm nervous to see your works!
i'll try girl character animations.

@Germanunkol
I put my design as block texture to see it in WED. But i think is the wrong way. I needed to enable a single point grid and it is not good.

In my opinion, redraw a screenshoted level is as hard as draw it from start, almost with coreldraw, and it secures that limit exactly fits with geometry. An automatic fill could be the finest solution but i can't imagine how manage complex levels. Let coders opine about this.

@SirCamaris
Loved your tricks. They put me in a hurry for a moment. We will need many of those.

To Germanunkol, Ganderoleg, Txesmi, George

Thank you for taking the time to try the levels I posted and for your comments on them. I really appreciate it and I'm glad you enjoyed them. Going forward, I think we should find a way to merge our focuses. Txesmi, I'm glad to hear that we can combine your 2D artwork with some of my geometry. Germanunkol, do you have any preferences on whether the brother/sister models should be 2D or 3D?

No. I think both are fine, and it's all about which art-style you like more.
They both have their advantages and disadvantages, so it really doesn't matter at this stage, I think.

Just jumping in to say that I've finally uploaded a rework of the first superku-level. I wanted to create something like a mine/underground cave. Feel free to play/edit it

@Bug
Just played it and it does looks nice It has that gloomy-cave look.
I guess we could call it castle basement ...but it would be great if you could make a level that is more castle-like. If we are to choose best level art/design we must have similar starting points, similar design conditions, so that we can see clearer what are differences and advantages of one or the other approach.

Also you forgot to put your Focus doc together with zip so that we can see what segment of your artwork should get our closer attention.

...
There is still lots of time for all of us and for our artwork proposals. Friday is the first milestone but there is also the weekend and then will see if we need more time.

...and one more important thing:

We have been asked by programing team to try and give some global feedback on the interface, menus and hud styles.

They will start with concept of the main menu structure based on the information from this etherpad (http://etherpad.com/rXhFZCN70j) For now dummy graphics will be used and later we will design the final look.

We are surely not ready for this kind of discussions yet since we just started with project art-style proposals. We haven't even had any discussions concerning whether the game environment & characters will be 2D or 3D But I do believe that we are capable of giving some global guidelines about this.

I will put few solutions in form of a question in ArtPad & if any of you have some of their own please write them next to mine. They should be questions that can be answered with Yes or No(voting mechanics are the same as for other subjects).

If anyone has any idea that is more of a visual nature, you should make some sketches and upload them on SkyDrive. Label it: InterfaceSolutions.zip. The interface proposals doesn't need to contain a specific art style, since the game style is yet to be determined and game interface should match it, so they should be more of a concept nature. Raw pencil sketch with small arrows & explanations on how the menu/hud should animate/move/appear is sufficient.

Then, on Friday(if we have anything by then), we will pick the best sketch and ask the artist who made it to combine his work with results from the ArtPad.

Hello Bug,

I viewed your level and thought the use of geometry was really clever. The application of textures and mood set by the lights was neat too. For some reason though, none of the models were present so I couldn't play the level; I don't know if anyone else had that problem. Good work though.

Hi team!
I've uploaded my little girl run animation. I think i got it! It takes me around 8 hours.

@Bug
I got same problem as SirCamaris.

@Guardian
Will you animate those characters? They has very good feeling but they are hard to animate.

@Txes
Girl animation looks really, really good I am very impressed with how clean her movement is. There is no unnatural hight changes while running. Very good work.

@Guardian
I almost missed out on those characters. You should announce on the forum your uploads to SkyDrive so that we don't have to check folders.
They are very good looking. Will you try animating them or is this character concept?

…
As for me- I have finally finished my two level-style proposals: one 2D level & one 3D level, castle theme. They are created in a bit of a hurry since I had some virus troubles and couldn't start working until 3 days ago

I also added a small Lizard warrior 2D animation(it was originally made for my Dark Divinity character but since that is out...) and it's placed inside 2D level. You will see it when you reach for diamond There is also the folder with his work-files.

In a next few days I will be focusing on player-character animations. I will do the 2D & 3D versions and then update my zip.

NOTES:

I am using GS Commercial 7.50 & WED V6.875 so it may be possible that you will not be able to run levels from your WED or SED without some issues. Therefore I have also compiled exe that should work fine in case there are some troubles with work-files. Maybe you should even try the exe file first and then the other things later.

I use mainly C-Script so I was not able to use my fire effect in Lite-C. This is the reason you will see that terrible-looking fire sprite in the second level instead of nicely-looking fire effect.

IMPORTANT NOTE:

Before you open my zip scan it for infections. I am still not sure that my OS is completely virus-free.

your sig is massive and the game idea is great

@Ganderoleg
I loved your 3D level. Plenty of shaders. Good work!

nice work

@Mikaldinho
Thanx for checking out the Blade Of Power from my sig
…and by the game idea I guess you mean Sorcerers? It was "massively" rejected as a project idea I'm afraid it was my fault for not making enough effort in creating the game-play concept more interesting & functional.

@Txesmi
Thanx
I had many problems with 3D level. I have almost no experience in this camera perspective since I've only done first person projects so far.

For instance: There was almost no visible difference between 512/512 and 128/128 textures, so, instead of having a huge number of separated textures I could of consolidated them into one big texture with Blender & had much more functional model.

Also I had a big issue with shaders. If you click twice on 0 during the game and get closer to the level geometry you will see that walls have really good shader, that you couldn't notice from a distance, but you will also notice that everything else has terrible-over-shiny shader, that looked just fine a moment ago from a distance If the game had zoom in/zoom out option this would have been a problem.

Hi all, had some trouble uploading or I would have announced what I've done so far.

I mostly worked on a few prelim sketches, a temp boy model and and my changes to Georges demo level.

I may upload a smaller file for my demo as I had to split it in winzip.

I'll write a bit more later. So far everything I've done is on skydrive.

Guardian

Hi Guys, the last week or so I’ve been playing around with George’s superku demo. I also did some sketches of a boy and girl characters as per what has been discussed in the team game threads.

I focused a bit on the dark side but not to much so, and used some of the influences of Txesmi’s girl character drawing.

I took an existing simple model and made a boy 3d model for testing. Everyone can use it as they like.

Although we really don’t have any direction to move artistically yet on this project the above is where I’ve started. I may do a girl model next and see how that works out.

I sure hope they make some real decisions on the game design thread soon.

So far I’ve seen everyone’s demo work and thought them all very good I’ll be happy to work along no matter witch direction we eventually move.

Guardian

@Guardian, Liked everything you uploaded to the sky-drive. Giving the boy-girl hooded robes makes them seem to have special powers like a Jedi (or Sith if you prefer), but not cultish (7 year olds don't belong to cults anyway...i don't think). The boy model is a nice alternative to what we've been using. Nice graphical remake of George's prototype (with good sounds and visual effects too).

@txesmi, I agree with Ganderoleg, really nice animation of the girl. Did you do any extra coding... she walks/runs nicer over the first step to her right in the level.

@Ganderoleg, Really cool first two levels. I think that both 2D/3D characters can be used together effectively without being a distraction (as you've proven). Loved the graphical "feel" of you're second level...realistic/mature. Something drew me to the narrow windows ("Windows to infinity" comes to mind). I think you also re-coded the crates if I'm not mistaken...2-3 can be pushed at once. Looking forward to seeing your version of the player.

@Germanunkol, Based on these new uploads, I can see some of the advantages/disadvantages of 2D/3D characters. Building and animating a player model may be easier than a 2D character. Walking, running, fighting, jumping, etc. would take much longer drawing one frame at a time than building a single model and creating keyframes. I know txesmi said it took about 8 hours time to do a walking/running animation. How long, I wonder for George's or Guardian's player model. However, it seems that a more playful and detailed style can be achieved with a carefully crafted 2D character like Txesmi's girl or Ganderoleg's enemy character.

Just posting to let you know I'm still here: I was gone for a few days without a computer. I did some sketches though and will now work on my prototype and check out all of yours. Sorry it took so long.

@Guardian
I've downloaded everything and checked it out and I must say that it all looks very good. Your boy drawings are great. They are very similar to what I had in mind.

As for levels they are very atmospheric, but, as it seems, they don't really follow the castle theme... They are, however, very universal so I guess if we replace mountain image with snowy castle image in level1 it can pass as a castle

@SirCamaris
Thanx As I already mentioned there were lots of technical surprises since I only had experience with first person levels so far. I will probably make two more levels in different styles if I can finish the boy character in 2D&3D without any to much difficulties.

@Germanunkol
It's totally o.k. since the dead-line is now sett for the Friday(26.02.). I hope to see(and create myself) more of everything since these are the proposals that will be the base for game prototype level.

...
I am sorry for constantly reminding about the level theme but if we are to choose from different art styles we should all have the same theme frame. We can choose the nicest car between the different cars but it's very hard to choose the nicest car between the cars, bicycles & trains

I'm not happy with it, but I uploaded a level-prototype.
My main Problem was the castle-theme, I believe: I find it hard to make the castle as surrealistic + dreamy as I'd have liked to...

@Germanunkol
Downloaded it, played it, loved it It's really very good and, in my opinion, you did manage to make it look surrealistic.
Also, those tree roots are a nice touch and if the game looses the static screen-based levels & takes on the scrolling-level system they will look great as the foreground.

My only complaint would be that you created the level to be in full-screen size which brakes level-frame size from George's prototype.

That's good stuff, Germanunkol! I especially liked the way you have used the 3D engine in a 2D level. Also, I know that my prototype levels were including a level frame, but I'm thinking what would happen if we'd dump it and make the player explore a castle with different puzzle / action filled rooms (each level would be a room in the castle). Just an idea to think at.

@Germanunkol
I loved your style. Good work!

Uh, nice to get such positive feedback.
Ganderoleg, now I know what you mean by level-frame ... I had no idea what that meant before, sorry about that.
About my demo:
-The Problem with the isometric view is that mutliple lanes (in y-direction) and this sort of view won't work together, because a movement away or towards the screen wouldn't be seen. And prerendered environments don't work at all when the view's 3d and the camera can move. It would also be much harder to set up the level geometry and combine it with the rendered images.

George, how about this: You enter a huge castle, and in it you have to find your brother. You can enter rooms at will (doors all over the castle level), but some will be locked or hidden at first. Every door leads to a level; in it you find something (a Piece of a letter from your brother telling you how to get to the next level/door/stage - just like your gem, except that it's a letter). The fun thing about this would be: the castle level would be explorable (though 2d movement only and sidescrolling). This would go back to Superku's original design doc: "explorable", while the linear levels behind each door would be easier to program than an entirely open world would be.
The main castle level could also hold merchants/npcs who the player can interact with (I'm thinking 2 or 3, not hundreds). This was also part of the design document and would give an interesting non-linear twist to the story. You could buy extra lives, an invisibility cloak and a potion that makes you invulnerable for 10 seconds.

P.S. I used blender 2.49 (would've loved to use 2.5 alpha 1 but it's not yet perfect), Gimp 2.6.8 and ventilator's blender-to-mdl exporter. All of those are free. If we go for prerendered and someone's used to other programs, we can easily exchange models (someone makes them in program XYZ and we import them to blender). Also, the prerendered method gives us the freedom of post-production: All the cracks that you see in the level on the wall were painted onto the rendered image in gimp after rendering, using a free texture from cgtextures.

P.P.S. I'd really love to program particle effects and the like: something like you, George, have in your prototype. Stuff that sets the mood and looks cool. I think this could be done by the artist Team AND the programming team, as it needs a little from both areas.

About the game menu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS4zHPlH2CU
I really like that style. We should think about creating something like that, except simpler (no multiplayer options, no battle.net etc)

I don't understand these two questions:
5. Do we want a map like main menu? (what is a map-like-menu?)
and
3. Do we want sliders in the hud? (what would they be for?)

Monster post again ...

I think that we should keep the 3d dimension of the levels for now, at least until we decide that it doesn't add value to the game. Having npcs is an interesting idea that would push the game into the rpg world as well. We could have the player collect stuff and use it to buy super powers. potions, etc.

We will add particles, shaders, etc where / if they are needed.

@Germanunkol
It's o.k.- it's not that big of a deal with level-frame At this moment it's not clear if the game levels will be fixed/scrolling, framed/fullscreen, zoomed, 2D/3D or combined but the thing that (1)level-theme, (2)level-frame & (3)fixed camera position were to do was to:

(1)make our level-style solutions similar so that they could be more easily compared,
(2)see how artist would solve the frame problem and if the game is to be scrolling/zoomed and not fixed we just loose the frame & add geometry/zoom,
(3) make sure we have the same level-mechanics so that people don't judge the level by the level gameplay but by the level art style.

I agree with you that moving camera and level depth will not work with isometric view but I don't think that view must be isometric in order to achieve the layered-level result. I don't know if you checked out my (much)earlier post and Moonmonkey demo:

http://www.filefront.com/15475909/moonmonkey.zip

It's a blend of 2D&3D technique with moving camera.

As for art pipeline, we should have a discussion about what programs will be used once we have a graphical techniques sett, but I am really happy that someone else is also using Blender & open source app's Blender is great.

Btw- The slider thing is my question Nothing special: just maybe a slider for level of difficulty, number of lives, resolution... stuff like that.

I'm not sure about map-like game menu but The Forest Temple has a map-like loading menu(i guess):
http://www.opserver.de/ubb7/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=309949#Post309949

...
Since the level-frame is no longer necessary this is the small code that works for me & with it I will update my already created levels & implement it in my next few levels when they are finished:


It's not really that great but if you don't want to loose time on this take it & tweak it

All right, I updated the questions + my answers in the artists' etherpad.
I don't think we need sliders in the HUD, while they might be useful in the menus.

Edit:
I'd love to see levels like this:
http://myhdwallpaper.com/d/27237-2/Computer+Generated+and+Games_00090.jpg

Hi friends,

I have updated my little girl with walk animation.

@Txesmi
Just tested it- it's great The animation is smooth and there is no quality differences between walk & run cycles. Very good work.


..............................................
I don't know if someone missed it in few posts earlier but the new-established deadline was sett to be on Friday. If anyone has something new to add or something “old” to improve it would be great if that could be finished before Saturday.

I'm not saying that Friday 00:00 is the end & on Saturday 00:01 the style is being picked If someone has something more to finish that would take 24-48h it can be arranged, but bare in mind that the Friday should be the official end of this development turn.
..............................................

@Ganderoleg
Thanks, i'm really proud of her. Quality differences were my main nervousness. I need the little boy character for saturday!

@Txesmi, I also liked the work you put into the girl animation...very refined.

@Germanunkol, Nice mixture of 2D/3D work...It is almost like a hybrid of Txesmi's,Ganderoleg, and Bug's work combined.

I also tried Superku's prototype demo and liked the gameplay/leveldesign. The camera now follows the player/s, a new crawling ability is added, layer switching is improved, and jumping/gravity-switching ability is added. Great job!

Hi guys, it's late here I made a 3d little girl model to go with the

brother sister game concept. Uploaded to Skydrive.

I had some troubles going from A6 to A7 Med. Used part of an A6

Med created model "boy model" to make the girl model and in A7

Med it blow up 4 or so times all jumbled.

Anyway the model's free to use if you wish seems to work now in

Med and in levels but I won't be using A6 and A7 models together

anytime soon.

Guardian

@Guardian
GS 6 & GS 7 mixing is always “fun” I regularly have texturing problems with A7 wed so I always texture things in A6. But when I mess up in A7 I have to save .wmp as a .map in order to open it in A6 and during that process I lose all groups in .map file. It's really enjoyable

Seen a girl- it's a good work Hair looks especially nice & animations are very realistic.

...
As for me, so far I have finished one new level (level 3), 50% of a boy 3D model, 0 % of a boy 2D model & 20% of a final level (level 4).

It's now 13h in my city so in the, let's say, next 5-6 hours I will try to finish the 3D boy somehow and try to finish the level 4. But no matter what happens, by the end of the day, I will upload my finished level 3 and 3D boy model in whatever condition he is in by that time.

Guardian, you have a ".z01" file in your folder. Is that anything important? I've never seen such a file ending... Google says it's some sort of split-Archive? So if I've extracted all the other archives it automatically extracted that one as well?

I am sorry for my lack of participation. I have had some serious issues at home that has taken my attention away. Is there anything I can do to help anywhere?

@Blink
It's o.k. We haven't yet made any structural decisions and you are always free to display your work(the link will be added to ArtPad(http://etherpad.com/qO7uSEtQPl) under your nick) and specify what development segments you are interested in(under A.SKILLS).
At this moment we are also taking a menu/hud design proposals. You can put your proposals in a form of a question in ArtPad or, if you have more of a visual idea, make some sketches and upload them to SkyDrive.

...
I have finished uploading my new zip with one new level(with zoom for all levels) and WIP boy player model.

Boy player model is still very, very WIP and I had every problem imaginable with this file, from geometry to texturing, exporting, animation... only reason he is in the zip is because the problems with him can't be fixed in a two days and I don't want to be the only one to delay development. I will, naturally, work on him and with any luck have a functional model in a few days but, for now, his not really much more then a hint of what he may be in the future. I also have to make a 2D version of the boy & to finish that long-announced 3D SF Knight model that I wanted to contribute to the community & also adjust for this project.

Btw the doll-looking face is not intentional I just didn't have the time to fix it since I made a mistake and made UV mapping for the face to be half mapped & mirrored (also with bad lightning choice).

@ Germanunkol I believe that is the second part of my winzip file involving my remake of George's demo level. It's in two parts, so you need to download both of them in order to extract the necessary files.

Ganderoleg, good to see you got it done! Shape and size of the boy look good.
The thing I like most about your levels is the red lights in the third level. They look really cool

What I'm missing in all of our artwork-prototypes is the second layer that the programming team seems to have decided on....
I started making a level which features this, but didn't get very far yet.

We didn't decide anything about the second layer yet, but we wanted to use Superku's free time . Nevertheless, I think it's a good idea, even though it won't be used in all the levels (I guess).

Downloaded the newer version of the project and I have to say that I love it (especially the following camera). Maye I'll create and upload a castle themed level tonight. Stay tuned

I'll also try to finish one more (the one that I started earlier), though it won't be done till tomorrow. So if you're willing to wait for BUG and me, we'll probably have two more prototypes tomorrow, and mine will use superku's work as well, if that's all right with you, Ganderoleg.
I know that you asked for closed-level and non-sidescrolling, but I really think this game will live off of that. So if it's all right I'll try making one with sidescrolling and no level border.
I'm sorry if I go against instructions here, but I believe it is a big part of the game, and I like the way superku's new demo works, I want to try how it looks in a stylized world...

O.k. we can wait until you two finish them

Maybe I will also give it a try with a Superku new level. If I can combine few things and create a level until you two are done I will upload it also

...but there is no difference (in levels that use 3D technique) between what we have done and Superku level. All that needs to be done in our levels to match it is to remove the frame and add more geometry. In some cases there is even no need for extra geometry- just a moving camera and a bigger zoom.
As for 2D levels, I believe that the things are a bit different but also doable. Positioning the 2D layers closer together should fix the problem with gaps & moving cameras. There shouldn't be any visible distortions if 2D layers are closer to one another.

Also my level is still WIP, I want to show you some screens of the castle. I've still to add some land with trees etc...

I uploaded another example to the skydrive. You can't actually do anything in it except walk this one corridor. I'm sorry about this, it didn't work out the way I wanted: I had complications rendering the normalmaps. It was supposed to look much, much better and be much bigger. Also, the black borders weren't intended, it was supposed to be all textured, but I'm getting tired and I've worked on this for many hours now...

Focus on this new example was supposed to be the normalmapping+specularity and the level geometry. To create best results I believe we should make all visual elements as well as the interactive elements (boxes etc) as models and only the collision should be done with block geometry. That was sort of my focus...

@Bug
Screens of your new level look much, much better then your earlier level I just love how compact & stylish your castle looks. I could definitely live there How long will it take you to finish it? Day, two days...?

@Germanunkol
This is nice concept- is it all 3D except for tree rots in the foreground & background? It's too bad that we can't see it the way it was meant to be seen

I think you & Bug should finish these levels. My new level is actually already done but I messed up with lightmapping and it doesn't look too good. I would also need until tomorrow to fix it.

So let's wait for our three new levels to be wrapped up & playable

Hi friends,
it seems that it will be a 3D game, so i decided try it with a 3D level. I have uploaded my first atempt around 3D structures. It tooks me more time than i thought, it is quickly textured and totally unfinished but i think that shows what i think about a 3D playground.

Salud!

PD: Good work to all!!

@Txesmi
Downloaded & played it- very cool level The lights are a nice touch and I think textures bring very abstract quality to the entire scene.

@Ganderoleg
Also I'm very busy, I'll try to upload it this friday (there's still so much to work on this one )

@Bug
O.k. will wait for Friday

...
I have uploaded the redesign of Supeku's scrolling level with balloon on the SkyDrive. I was unable to test if gameplay is still o.k. since I never really figured out what to do in the level in order to successfully finish it

Things that I had most troubles with are the lightmap's. They were the biggest issue since I had some trouble with Blender so I had to make the lightmaps with MED's Atlas Mapping tool. The downside is that instead of creating the UV mapping that revolves around the geometry areas, Atlas mapping revolves around faces. So in many places there are some visible triangles.

Problems with program are not big and the most apparent one is the fact that sister-player is shaking and sometimes getting stuck in geometry.

@all: I like your work so far very much!
The newest level of txesmi has a nice concept, I like it.



Ganderoleg, could you please explain "sister-player is shaking" and "sometimes getting stuck in geometry" in more detail (via PM to remain on-topic, please)?
I have not experienced these problems before. I will upload a new movement script in approx. 3 days without the crates/balloons getting stuck and a better collision detection.

Keep on the good work!

Hi all!

I have updated my 3d level. I tryed to give it a castle look .

@Txesmi
I love the animated-vortex doors ...and also now I remembered what your level reminded me of: Star Wars Jedi Outcast. There's a level were player finds himself in a room full of SF-looking containers, stacked on top of each other, and he has to jump from one to another like in a platform game.

Hi team members,

Last few weeks I was working on some music ideas for the game. I have 9 tracks uploaded on the SkyDrive and it would be great if you would download it and tell me what you think.

Hello team,

we are all set to begin with gameplay sketches. I have one made to demonstrate what they should consist of in terms of explanation and limitations.


We will take Superku's levels as a guideline for level-limitations so what we have is two movement layers for players and objects. You should take that into account when considering stairs, lifts, crates and all other things.
Each sketch should have drawing and clearly written order of actions displayed. They don't have to be the same as my sketch but it would be nice if you can make it as much detailed as possible.

This is the list of features that are currently present but you can add new objects and features that aren't present on the list if you think they will enhance the gameplay. Bare in mind when considering the enemies that there shouldn't be any open-battles with opponents but more something like confusing, locking-in, locking-out or dropping objects on them in order to make them unconscious.

Feature list:
- Sister player can change its gravity
- Brother player can crouch and get into small areas
- Boxes that can fall down
- Boxes that can float
- Barriers that destroy the players, but not the boxes
- Platforms that open doors when player steps onto them or pushes boxes over them
- Switches that opens/closes doors or move platforms


And also one important thing: It has been decided that game starts in this manner:

Game start up with brother & sister in the opposite cells(but in the same level and maybe even close enough so that they can talk to each other through the windows of their cells) of the Evil Lord's dungeons and a small mouse(mouse is actually a good wizard that got transformed into the mouse by the evil lord) brings the vial of potion to the sister, which enables her to switch gravity. Then we play sister for a while because she has to find a way to open her brothers cell(but that shouldn't take too long and meanwhile brother can also do some things from inside his cell in order to help his sister to release him), and after she opens his cell(or manages to crack a small tunnel or something else) we play them together.

You can begin creating the sketches using this as a starting point or you can just do sketches of gameplay with brother&sister already out of the cells.

That's all- lets see if we can come up with a great gameplay Good luck

Uploading my castle demo level. Note that it's just a little "walkthrough" level without any goal etc.

Yeah this is very, very good It was worth waiting
Only thing that I find a bit off are the parts of the level where there are more then 2 lanes available but not usable. It gives some sort of reminder that player movement is limited. But I think this could be visually masked with some extra fences or some iron-fence doors it the wine cellar.
Apart from that it's really great and very similar to what I had in mind to do but didn't do it- leaving the platform concept and doing the straightforward castle floors.

...
Btw, since we are now on the page No.12, if someone missed my game-sketching announcement from the page No.11 just click here:
http://www.opserver.de/ubb7/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=314099#Post314099

I am unsure what I should be doing right now. I checked etherpad and updated my area, but now what should I be doing. I am a bit late jumping in, so I feel a bit overwhelmed.

Great to have you You could post some of your artwork related to the areas that you are interested in doing for the project or/and maybe give gameplay sketches a try(there's also game-menu sketches that needs to be done).

The near-future steps are these: once the project level-style proposals are done(we are waiting for Germanunkol), George and the team leaders(Joozey & me) will decide on game visual direction and we will have a starting point for building the project prototype. In the meanwhile, all of us that are interested in making the gameplay sketches can do so following the guidelines & limitations from my post(http://www.opserver.de/ubb7/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=314099#Post314099)

Once the visual direction is decided, I will make a development-segments list, assign(offer) some of the members the tasks that I believe they can do good, and leave the opportunity to all members to choose from all the segments what they want to do.

List will be divided to visual & visual-core segments. If member is not assigned(offered) with the task and wants to do work from visual-core segment he will be asked to do small custom artwork following my guidelines to see how he will handle it, and if member wants to do work from visual segment he will just have to sign-in his name, take task/tasks and start working. If the finished work is good it will go into the levels.

Hello team,

we have reached the end of the style design proposals and now we can get the visual direction set.
It has been agreed to speed things up by making a vote only by George & team leaders, and also, to skip any character decisions for now and only decide on a level art-style.

I have already made some classifications in the ArtPad about level visual styles and now I will post them here also. Feel free to take a look and maybe change the style description of your work if you think that it was wrongly classified.

    LEVELS
    1.    Full 3D levels
    2.    3D levels with 2D elements
    3.    Full 2D levels
    4.    2D levels with 3D elements

    LEVEL STYLES
    1.    3D Semi-realism (Bug, Ganderoleg)
    2.    3D Semi-realism minimal (SirCamaris)
    3.    2D Semi-realism (Germanunkol, Txesmi)
    4.    3D Platform-like, artistic & minimal (Guardian, Txesmi)
    5.    2D Sketch-like & cartoonish (Gandreoleg)


I expect decision about level design direction to be made in the few following days, and then we can all finally start working on the game's prototype.

I will try to work out some gameplay sketches, hopefully I can present them in the next days. Stay tuned

Hi all, I uploaded another style oriented level to skydrive.
My main focus was atmosphere and overall Art style.

You will have to add the team member song Fields of Light to the game folder as I have had trouble uploading larger files.

The file is the one marked “gmixunt_platformer.cd”.

I hope it's not to late I don't have time for any game-play ideas anytime soon so I may just wait to see what's next.

One thing that bothers me, is why are we using the term “castle” to describe an Art style not yet agreed upon? Did I miss something or is it just a reflection of the term “temple” in the “Forest Temple” game George referenced? Is it just semantics, both words seem vastly different visually to me?

Just a question, trying to clarify not comment.


Your friend Guardian

@Guardian

I have tried it & it's cool I believe this one also falls under 3D Platform-like, artistic & minimal so there is no need to change the style list.

Castle is just geometrical reference for style proposals. It could have been forest, factory, village, space station... I went for castle theme because it represents indoor design(which is much more style-driven then outdoors) and also because castle can mean lots of things so everyone can use different, original approach in creating it, as everyone did. The proposals were not really about the real, actual game-space but more about the style of that space: realistic, semi-realistic, platform-like, minimal, cartoonish, abstract...

...
I believe that prototype level art-style will be resolved by tonight so that we can, once the number of gameplay ideas is o.k., divide the work & finally start developing the level prototype.

I have tested the level and I think that (for your particular level) the wind effect adds a lot of feel to the game.
Please don't forget to add the current date as a part of the file name for all your uploads, guys. Thank you.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////
Hello team,

the decision about game-level prototype technique & style direction has been made. We decided to go with 3D levels that have 3D & 2D elements & to give semi-realistic visual approach a try.

It has also been considered that, in case prototype quality proves to be non-satisfactory, we keep a backup choices in this order:
backupNo1./3D Platform-like, artistic & minimal
backupNo2./2D Semi-realism.

I hope everyone is o.k. with these choices and that we will all have lot's of fun doing this project

////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

In a few days I will post in ArtPad, as I mentioned in the few replies up, a development-segments list and offer some of the members the tasks that I believe they can do good. All of us will also have the opportunity to decline/accept offers and/or choose from all the segments what they want to do for the project.

List will be divided to visual & visual-core segments. If member is not offered with the task and wants to do work from visual-core segment he will be asked to do small custom artwork following my guidelines to see how he will handle it, and if member wants to do work from visual segment he will just have to sign-in his name, take task/tasks and start working. If the finished work is good it will go into the levels.

Hi Ganderoleg, thanks for the explanation of style proposals, castle reference.

Could you let us know which level prototype is most like the style that has "3D & 2D elements, semi-realistic visual approach"? That is could you tell us which levels to take a second look at for a better understanding.

I’m more a visual person and need to see what you mean.

That would help me a lot.


Guardian

@Guardian

I have classified as semi-realistic levels Bug's first proposal level from Superku-Mine Level.zip & second proposal level from Castle Demo without goals.zip, and my second & third level from Ganderoleg.26.FEB.2010.zip

I have also uploaded to SkyDrive Ganderoleg.01.MAR.2010.zip which falls into this category, but that is just my third level expanded to function with Superku's (and not George's) level concept.

Actually the prototype levels are to be more like Bug's second level in a sense of structure, since he has implemented floors and not platforms, and more like my when it comes to the light, shaders and higher color-contrast.

Hope this helps

I have been finishing the modeling & rigging part of the possible enemy model for the game in last three days. He is still very much a wip so there was no point in uploading it to SkyDrive, but I decided to post a few images & short animation-test of the character just for fun. He is not yet uv mapped and textured but I added the blueish material and some specularity.

The most important things that I have to do:

1.I created him a bit poly-happy so he has about 14000 faces The number must go down to 50%. I've made a very clean geometry so that won't be the problem.
2.I'm having a constant trouble with rigging the character hip. Few more experiments and I think that problem will be solved.
3.Also rigging of the more dynamic points of geometry(like arms & collars) must be re-rigged.

You can download the video or just watch it by clicking on Stream Video Now here:
http://www.filefront.com/15801291/Acknex_MED_-2010-03-11.avi

That's about that. I'm also working on those gameplay sketches but didn't have much luck. There is only 3 to 4 sketches from the bunch that are really usable I hope some of you are having better luck with sketches then me.

The knight looks awesome.

Ok, as promised, I'll show you one of my sketches (and upload the rest soon)

- Brother and sister both start outside the castle (X)
- Sister changes gravity to avoid the spikes (1) and turns on the swith (2) to make the platform (1) go down and cover the spikes. The switch also moves the platform at the bottom up and down (like a lift).
- The switch (3) can only be used by the brother, thus the brother has to use the lift. Once the switch is activated, the platform (4) will cover the spikes. The sister can now go up and wait until the ghost (or knight, or spider etc...) moves to the right. She can then go up to the swith (5)
- The switch (5) opens the exit-door (6) and both the brother and the sister can now leave the level.

That's a good sketch! We only need to figure out why the sister can't activate the 3rd switch - maybe it's in an area that can't be reached without crawling.

Good idea! Why haven't I thought about that before?
Maybe we could also design three kinds of buttons.
- One simple red button = everyone can use it
- One with the sister's face on it = only sister can use it
- One with the brother's face on it = only brother can use it

or instead of boy and girls face:

blue - brothers button
yellow - sisters button

Sketch looks great- everything is very clear and detailed

I must admit I would go for area that can only be reached by crawling(it's just a matter of adding a small obstacle/wall with small opening). The different buttons that indicate which player should operate them could over-simplify things, and we are going for partly realistic surroundings. But we could make some sort of help-option were the buttons & other things could be lighted in manner that explains which player should do what/or what must be activated in order to finish level.

I also think that any button should be activated by any of the players (if the player can reach it), just like in real-life situations. On the other hand, a hint button that lights up the switches that should be activated by the girl and boy using different colors is a very good idea imo.

you could have one character light up the switches while the other character goes to the switch.

I am not so sure I've got that.

Hi friends,

I have uploaded a sketch to skydrive. Let me know what you think. I got lots of troubles to imagine a special sketch and i don't think i got it.

Salud!

I have uploaded my first 4 levels gameplay to SkyDrive. I'm not too happy with how I handled the mouse role but everything can be modified.

@Txesmi
I checked your sketch out and I love the way you managed the mouse part(with fissure behind the bed and illusion of prisoners) The boxes part is also o.k. but I must admit I'm not so crease about the boy being so little that he can go between the crosspieces of cell doors It seems a bit off.

Maybe we can make a joint sketch taking your first level best parts and my first level best parts.

You all have some very cool ideas there. I think we should not use them in the first levels though, as they're quite complicated to solve. I think in the first 10 levels you should only be able to play the sister, and the first 3 should be very simple to intruduce the player to the whole concept of switching gravity.

Edit:
BTW, I know this is not the step we're at right now, but I'm interested in it: Will we use shaders? I believe we should, even if it's just simple wiki-shaders. Normalmaps and Spec maps would make the game look much more detailed... It would mean we couldn't use simple block geometry though (which I wouldn't want anyways).

In fact, I'm just noticing I don't think we've talked about that at all so far: Blocks or Models? I vote for models. They simply tend to look better. And with polygon collision only active on the needed parts, it shouldn't be hard to do. Also, we can then start making lots of models and people can place them in the level and re-use them (like a set of staircase, or a window or wall). Also, we can make them in any program of our choice, and don't have to use WED-only.

Edit 2: I'm working on a sketch also, just to let you know I'm not slacking off entirely

I have checked all the sketches - great stuff! A few notes:

Ganderoleg's level_01_01:
- The mouse could open the hatch switch by itself, by simply moving over m3. We'll have to think at a way that allows us to have the mouse carry and push things like buttons, etc.
- Draining the water is a great idea, but I'd like us to create a much greater anticipation when it comes to reuniting the two brothers. I suggest that the little brother will crawl through the pipes and get out of the cell, but will not meet his sister in this level.

Ganderoleg's level_01_02:
- How will the sister reach the sleeping guard to put the cheese in his years? Don't we need to lower the bridge in order to do that? Maybe there's a passage at the first floor, but you didn't draw it because of the text.

Ganderoleg's level_01_03: you have got some good ideas in there. I'm not sure if the player will be able to solve a level like this by himself, though.

Ganderoleg's level_01_04: great work! This is the type of level that would work best in my opinion, because it doesn't require too many explanations.

txesmi's sketch01: I like many of your ideas. I'm not so sure about the one with the boy being so small; it wouldn't be too visible in a regular level if we create it that way. I liked the bed pulling, box transportation and prisoner security counters ideas a lot! Please write the explanation texts on the bitmaps for your following sketches - it makes it much easier for us to understand them.

Germanunkol has raised some valid points here; you (the authors) are familiar with your sketches, so they don't look difficult to you, but they might look very complicated for the player. I think that the levels should have their "I have finally got it!" moments, but I agree that this shouldn't happen too early.

We will use shaders, but the game shouldn't rely on them. If the player has an older computer, the game should run fine on it as well. Choosing between models and blocks is a decision that you (the artists) will have to make. I would choose models as well, but let's not enforce this rule if it is possible - sometimes we might need level blocks for c_content tests, etc. Creating a set of reusable prefabs is a great idea, and since we're here please don't forget that our levels should be created using tiles of 64x64 quants as units: the boxes are pushed 64 quants at a time, and so on.

I don't think solving the puzzles is a problem, as long as it is clear to the player which actions can be done and as long as it's limited to one level (so you don't need to pull some switch in another scene in order to progress).

It becomes difficult if there are hidden action the player does not know of (e.g. looking below some sort of carpet in oder to find a key hidden there).

Still I think there should be some challenge to the riddles.

Yes, definitely, just not too early into the game.

Also, all these sketches so far are more or less screen-size sketches. Does that mean you're planning on no sidescrolling? Or is it coincidence?

To get those sketches shown here attractive you will have to zoom in a bit more I think. So there will be scrolling. At least that's what I expect when looking at the scenes. Can't imagine all these details squisehed on a small screen.

You are right, Firo: we'll probably have zoom in / out as well, but scrolling is a must.

I think all the sketches can be expanded making the travellings longer and add some save areas with tips and prizes.

@Germanunkol
I agree with you. too much difficult for a child.

@Ganderoleg
Sure, take all the ideas you want! I loved your levels. You can do better than me. However, i will try expanding my level and i will look for an easier way.

@George
sorry.

This is what I had in mind to fix up my sketches:

I will reduce the difficulty of my second level by removing the guards and putting bars on the windows of bridge-switch rooms so that sister will still have to go the way it was meant but without the need for cheese and noise factor. I will redo the level with crossbow to be easier(maybe the same see me/follow me method as the one with mechanism room).

I was going to add 4 more levels, between my first level & second level, where sister and brother are played separately in 3, and one where they unite so that they can continue joint play but there has been some development in game-levels overview that makes dungeons to be second set of levels so the sister-mono play in this segment is now off.

I was thinking we go for invisible level-boxes(collision) and mdl's for visible geometry. However we will need to use WED for 80% of indoor level geometry because we need to set identical geometry standards for every indoor level. After the level is done we export it to MED. Lightmaping will be done in Blender. Level props can however be modeled in various programs and then added to level later. Those props that are static will be incorporated in main level geometry and lightmaped.


...
I forgot to add that my levels are scrolling levels. They are based on Superku's level concept & grid based:

.

The game screen should appear like in the first image when zoomed-out & like in the second one when zoomed-in.

Hi guys, I've made a game-play sketch. I uploaded it to skydrive.

It depends on avoiding the boiling water and steam witch would have a timed pattern. Also the players must avoid a Swinging Axe with a pattern of movement.

I hope this makes sense and is helpful.

I had a link to it here but it was to skydrive so I removed it.
Wasn't sure if that was a good Idea, having a link direct to skydrive that is?


Guardian

I'd say that posting public links is a good idea whenever we want to show something to the community. If it's something for the team members only, let's keep it private.
I'm sure we'll post lots of public links when we've got something that works fine.

@Guardian
I like it- the Axe can be implemented in a Temple level that is being considered and water, if turned to lava, could be also used there or, if turned to icy water, can be used in another possible level called Ice Mountains.

Hello team,

I have added the preliminary list of visual & visual-core segments so that you can check out the development structure. Words marked with * means that the thing is still in decision process.

Any feedback as to what could be different in/added to the list is welcome

Go to ArtPad to see the list (it's under D.Game Development Segment List):
http://etherpad.com/qO7uSEtQPl

Btw 2DArtwork section is still under construction.

i know i have not posted any graphics on here before, and this is my first contribution to the game, but here is a menu example i did. i used the menu example in aum91 and edited it and made it different. please let me know what you think of it.



i think that it should have a transparent video of different sections of the game in the background of the menu. it would look nice and quite cool.

@Mikaldinho
I am sorry but the menu, HUD & panel 2D artwork for the project will have to be created by one/two of the art-team members in order for the artwork to be uniformed. If we take art from different sources/forum users the game's 2D segment may be very misfitted in certain parts.
Thanx for your offer.

that is ok. i was just trying to help and bring some ideas in, because you know when you suddenly have a brainstorm? i had one of them moments. that is why i did it.


EDIT: can i be in one of the artists?

i work better with 2d than 3d.

@Mikaldinho
we have a number of really good 2D artists already in the team so I don't think we will be searching for 2D artists at this moment.
If things change or we need some extra assistance in that domain I will contact you and you will then have to contact George Dan Pirvu, because he is the project's manager & main coordinator.

ok, thanks ganderoleg. i will keep it in mind.

Hi guys,

I uploaded some music files and click sounds on SkyDrive so you can check it out and tell me what you think.
Also I uploaded temporary Menu music file. Hope you going to like it.

Best regards,

Dimme

Hello team,

Since Sunday I have been working on a level design solution for J, J & BUM that would set the global game visual direction (be sort of concept template for game leveling).

Level uploaded to SkyDrive (Ganderoleg.20.MAY.2010.zip) is a design concept for J, J & BUM Fortress Chapter (Chapter 3. Sub-Level 4). This is the middle graphical version of the level. The high version with shaders & ppe is still to come

Since this should be the game visual approach, please evaluate this design & give any feedback on what should be excluded, changed or modified.



http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/shot_020.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/shot_017.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/shot_018.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/shot_016.jpg

...
Parallel to this, i think we should also (finally) start with creating the gameplay solutions for levels, since we can't move forward with level development unless we have something to work with. I think that gameplay should be the primary concern at this moment.

I have checked the level and it looks even better than the screenshots - I'm impressed!

The floor texture seems to be a bit blurry... maybe due to mip map settings?

From the story document I would expect the level to be a bit darker and more gloomy, but apart from that it seems to work out very well.

I did not try it yet myself but I think it looks really amazing, great work! The colours are very nice, too, I would not make it darker.

good work!

I really like the handling of colors and shadows, but if I get challenging, I personally would include structures such as ceiling beams and arches. The ceilings are too flat for my taste.

I would also include a way back if LJ drops to the lower court left. I think there shouldn't be no return paths in the game levels. I also wish there were special areas of no relevance to the level achievement and give way to exploration and disfigure the true path.

two cents to discuss...

Salud!

Hi friends,

I uploaded an sketch for level 1 of Chapter 1.
C1_L1_sketch.28-05-2010.zip

Salud!

PD: free textures & images (read term of conditions before use them):
http://texturebits.blogspot.com/
http://www.cgtextures.com/
http://www.imphenzia.com/textures/
http://www.noctua-graphics.de/english/fraset_e.htm
http://www.mayang.com/textures/
http://www.arroway-textures.com/catalog
http://textures.forrest.cz/
http://www.free-pictures-photos.com/
http://www.absolutecross.com/
http://www.pixelpoke.com/FREE%20PIXELS.html
http://www.imageafter.com/images.php

PD2: Double post!! XP

I've tested the level and I like it. It's a bit too small, but maybe we can either make it a tutorial level or you can expand it. I also liked the way in which you have created the two lanes - they're clearly visible. Good job!

Hi,

I have expanded the level with some jumps and a couple of wrong ways.

Salud!

Yeah, I have just checked it out & this version is great
It's a big level, player don't know exactly in which direction to go so he needs to explore, he can get into dead-ends & needs to go back so it's not boring. Also in two situations when I've fallen down I almost felt fear since I didn't know what is beneath me & if I can go back again

Once geometry is created & all lights set I believe this will be a very good level.

I didn't see bonus items in this version. I believe we shouldn't hurry with them but you did have a good idea. I've giving it some thought & this could be a very practical thing. It could make player explore the level more & bonus items can be almost anything: herbs that enhance health, or some sort of potion essentials the sister must gather or maybe vegetation that can replace meals & influence sister's stamina...

hey! great to hear that you (G&G) liked it.

Sincerelly, i'm a bit worried about polycount. I didn't want to change dirt road because i think it was a good starting point and with changes it becomes really big.

Those bonus items are the perfect excuse to explore the map from head to toe, like a widespread appeal.

Salud!

I wouldn't worry about the polycount. Your level has in this, let's call it, skeleton version 1640 faces (will round it up to 2k). So if you enhance the geometry x10 that's still only 20k Loopix trees have approximately 250 faces each, so if you put 40 trees that's about 10k (20 tress only 5k).

So if you enhance your level geometry by 10 times & place 40 tress that is 30k, & if you enhance level geometry by 15 times & put 20 trees that is 35k

...and with the proper use of lights while baking (subdividing the edges & setting the smooth) you can have level that looks like it has millions of poly's.

Just tested the new version of the level - good work! Please don't forget that we can have as many instances of a model as we want without using additional video memory. As for poly count, I have stopped worrying about that since A7 was released, and A8 (even though it's just an early beta version) is faster than A7.

Hello,

just uploaded first chapter second level sketch.

Salud!

It's a very good gameplay solution & excellent level concept, I have nothing to add or subtract from it

...you should look into a small technical matter though: I couldn't push/pull E rock to position G (rock was getting stuck), but that's just a small fine-tuning thing.

That's a good looking, huge level. In the future, maybe you can post a few screens here (for our community members).

Hi friends,

I have been testing my capabilities to create displacements. I did not know how to do it but I cleared. I have uploaded my workaround to skydrive.

As Gorge asks, i put some screenshots of the early proccess of first chapter.

1- Design sketch. It is drawn schematically.
2- With collision boxes drawn, I started with the mesh that covers them.
3- A shot of the product with a 3D editor.
4- A shot with A7 and shadowmapping.



@Ganderoleg: I don't get the same problem as you, i will check it anyway.

Salud!

EDIT: one screen more...

@Txesmi
Rock texture looks good & it seems like it's not blurry but nice & sharp Don't forget that lights should be similar to the one in prototype level, so if rocks are brownish, snow is white & trees green (I would experiment a bit with green though) you could have some blue crystals that emit blue light in their parameter. With brown, white, green, blue & good light positions it could look great & colorful

Can't wait to see it finished

...
I have uploaded my level solution for Fortress chapter, level 1 to SkyDrive. This is the middle graphical version of the level, the high graphical version with shaders & ppe is still to come, I have replaced my shader with new one & still need to tweak it up.

Things that are missing from this level:

1.Sister can fly upwards & out of the screen (it needs two seconds of fly & then fall back feature).
2.Sister & brother can fall down & out of the screen (it needs sort of death zone entity).
3.There is no mountain rocks beneath the fortress (I'm waiting for Txesmi to finish his level).
4.Better pick-up & use system (sister can pick-up the key & unlock the door but it's not good code solution).
5.Better crate-dropping system (my system works but, as George suggested, maybe we need some sort of crate-generating entity in situations as in this level).
6.Level cannot be finished (since the code solution is still gem & door oriented).

Any feedback on what should be changed & modified is welcome

Btw I've made some changes in my folder-structure so the path to the zip is:
Artwork > Ganderoleg > Project files > JJ&BUM Chapter 3 > Ganderoleg C3 L1 V1.zip

Btw, btw I forgot to put Brunnen4 well model, created by Sven Dännart & downloaded from Turbo Squid, in additional level geometry list.

Btw, btw, btw it seem that with sister everything works fine in my key/door system but, for some reason, when brother approaches the locked doors they unlock even without the key It's most probably my fault since I made the player's skill60 with value 1 to be the unlock trigger, so I guess skill60 is at value 1 for brother at the start of the game




http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/shot110.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/shot310.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/shot410.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/shot510.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/shot910.jpg

Well done!

I specially liked first part, with its kitchen, the well in the yard, animated flag... The lights and shadows are very well managed, i liked how the light changes from one space to another. Also the shadows are discreet but totally effective with those foreground objects.

I'd miss more constructive details, such as railings, less squared rooms, gargoyles, arches (hehe), etc. I would also include a challenge of movement. The displacement is flat without any impediment. It would be very interesting that the levels had many jumps to complete.

Salud!

Thanx, I'm glad you like it

I've experimented a bit while picking the best design solution for Fortress chapter & had different things tested. Finally I decided to go with very simple, army-like & non-artistic concept for it so that it would give it a more casual & barbaric look. I could try adding some statues or arches but I believe it would make buildings seem much more complex & art-driven.
On the other hand I plan to have very artistic-looking, darker & more architecturally detailed concept for BUUMs Castle, with columns, arches & statues of weird-looking frogs

Looks great, Ganderoleg. I really like the lighting!



Do we really need the turning camera when the player changes the gravity? Because it makes coding unnecessary complex and I don't like it, it makes me dizzy (and interrupts the movement flow, f.i.: run left/right -> change gravity -> now you need to press the other key to keep moving into the same direction).
Instead, the camera could move down twice the distance (camera.z-player.z) and inverse its tilt smoothly so you can see the ceiling.

Just wanted to say the imagery from you and Txesmi look great. I've uploaded some images for the Haunted House. None is done in WED yet however. I'm shooting for 2 floors maybe per level. So far I have two floors within an east and west wing. Both wings enclose a center hall. I'm thinking of adding guest quarters outside the main structure that surround a courtyard. I know my images don't look gloomy at the moment, but I wanted to get a sense of proportion for the levels. I'm not sure if they will be to short as they are now. I also will continue to amend my focus doc as I progress. Thank you.

@Ganderoleg
Ok, just undertood why it was so plain.

@SirCamaris
Great to hear that you are working. The pics look pretty good.

Salud!

"player's skill60" Better don't change any player skills, use vars instead.

There is a new, small update (Movement0806.zip) on George's SkyDrive account.

What is new?

• Sister has the ability to fly upwards/ gravity changes back to old state when she flies too long.
• There are deathzones that kill the player when he touches it.
• The elevators can have balance weights and cages: Attach a cage/weight in WED and check the elevator's Cage/Weight flag. When you want to have both on a single elevator, check both flags and attach the cage in the elevator's properties panel, then attach the weight in the cage's properties panel. The elevator always has to be the plate the player stands on, its model determines the bounding box dimensions.
• The level exit is not gem-oriented anymore. Position an object (a door) where the exit should be, choose "exit_door" and set "new_level" to next level[number] (new_level = 2 loads level2.wmb). When the player comes close to this object, the next level loads. Optional you can add a key to your level (or more, the amount of keys per door is not limited) and attach your exit_door, it knows automatically how many keys are assigned to it.
  The same key-action can be chosen for keys that unlock key_door_swing entities.
• Elevator_switches (you don't have to press a key to activate them, just come close).
• Press left/right to go up/down while hanging on a ledge (instead of up/down keys).

That's a great set of new features, Felix! Thank you.

@Superku
I downloaded & played the new movement demo & it all seems very good The elevator-cage & dead zone are working great. I just came across two minor things: the doors can't be passed, when unlocked, unless they are placed in second lane & exit- to-new-level doors open even if only one player is near them. Once J's unite in second level they will both need to be at the exit doors in order to change level.

Btw it would be great if we can keep the turning camera, I believe it's one of the game's biggest assets When I was showing the levels to some of my friends they always had a very reasonable response to gameplay & level visuals, something like: it's nice/colors are good/looks o.k.... But when I go to the gravity switch with turn-camera it was always: Wow this is cool/This is great/It's wicked

So I think this feature could be are greatest plus so far. It's something different & it gives more dynamic feel to the game. Actually I think that maybe every spell should have some sort of screen-thing (through use of different ppe, zoom or arc-change...)

@SirCamaris
I downloaded you document & images of your mansion look very good but, unfortunately, they don't reflect the needed visual direction for the chapter Your mansion is too contemporary & it has many props & appliances that are not in tone with the game ambient. ...it would be great for Hitman game or Counter Strike though I sent you a mail with some observations and suggestions.

...
I have upload (Ganderoleg C3 L1 V2) shader & ppe version of the first level that was done almost five days ago but because I had some health problems in a last four days I didn't manage to put it earlier on the SkyDrive. It's still a wip that needs more polishing but the hard lines are there. I couldn't publish exe for some reason :(but it seems to work fine from both wed & sed. If you can't run it without error let me know & if you manage to compile an exe file please let me know

In main.c you will find shaders_on & post_pe_on variables with which you can turn these effects on or off.

very nice work man,i like the atmosphere .

@Vinous Beret
Thanx, I appreciate it

...
I have realized that the main problem with shaders in my level seems to be the lowered blending of shadowmap. When shader is applied the model's shadowmap gets bleached out.



(First pix has modified shadowmap & second has original shadowmap. Notice how colors have much better blend in the first)

I've found a coding solution but it's very far from being elegant & good. I've created a post in programmers corner.

Hello team,

I uploaded new level for Fortress Chapter (Ganderoleg C3 L2 V1.zip). This is the middle graphical version of the level, the high version is awaiting further shader modifications.

I couldn't use Superku's newest program solution in this level because I added the mountain (rocks) beneath the fortress & wanted to see how it would visually fit, but for some reason I couldn't get camera limitation to respond to my input These rocks will have different texture depending from the choice Txesmi makes in his chapter.

This level is not really finished and has some geometry bugs & inconsistencies but since I had some time issues & has worked on it for almost 7 days I decided to proclaim it finished I will get back to it later when I complete other levels from my chapter.

Any feedback on what should be changed & modified is welcome.



http://i34.servimg.com/u/f34/11/34/97/23/jjbum_13.jpg
http://i34.servimg.com/u/f34/11/34/97/23/jjbum_12.jpg
http://i34.servimg.com/u/f34/11/34/97/23/jjbum_14.jpg
http://i34.servimg.com/u/f34/11/34/97/23/jjbum_15.jpg

great map!!

congratulations.

Great level; it really looks professionnal and an unique lightening and style.

Great level indeed; it's got Pavle's style imprinted all over it.

Hi friends,

Here are some advances at my hard job

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p3S0-VYQdM[/video]

Salud!

Thanx for all good words about my level

@Txesmi
Snowy Mountain looks even better in motion then in stills. It's a very good design & a very good work

Great job, Txesmi!

Hello team,

I uploaded new level for Fortress Chapter (Ganderoleg C3 L3 V1.zip). This is the middle graphical version of the level (with optional bloom (HDR) that you can switch through the bloom.txt file), the high version is awaiting further shader modifications.

I'm still using Superku's old program solution in this level.

This level is not really finished, specially in terms of gameplay, since there are some crucial AI aspects missing and also the level would need few more graphical improvements.

Check out the gameplay video if you have time
http://www.filefront.com/17040767/JJBUM_C3L3_Gameplay.wmv

Any feedback on what should be changed & modified is welcome.

Great work

it's like the player he is sliding on a snow floor instead of running !
Be inspired by Ratchet and Clank, where the hero have a very
expressive animation when running , it's somewhat cartoon exagerated animation, but it works very well and bring lot of life in it !
Ratchet And CLank

For the second character that have to crouch, because of 2D view, we don't see why we should croush caus there is no indication : it's hard to see where is the space to crouch ! Perhaps you could make a sensitive button ?

A little idea : Objects between camera and player should be transparent i think , caus when we don't see the character
that's really annoying, we don't see if he is standing, crouching or anything else !

Be inspired again :
Shadow complex

Well, very good and professionnal work !
Keep up improving it !

Thanx for checking out my level

You shouldn't focus attention on player models & animations: they are only placeholders at the moment They will be replaced with models of older sister (Big J) & little brother (Little J) when the time comes & their animations will be tweaked.

As for JJ&BUM effects, the levels are still awaiting ppe (mostly bloom but I would also like to try how some sort of depth of field would fit), shaders & more particle effects (not only level but also character based).

There was some talk about the game's hint system but nothing is decided at this time. I was suggesting a level-map that would have important parts/objects highlighted.

As for transparency, I must admit I always liked partial-visibility concept but I can't say that this aspect won't be changed until the end of development.

Btw Ratchet And Clank video is great

Nice work again, Ganderoleg! I really like the colours!

My choppy movement code is not worthy your great levels, I will rewrite it completely in August.

Well for the shaders, not really very important your 3D art is already very great like that and lightmaps !

For Depth Of Field , necessary only if you have distant 3D models
like moutains, or for cinematic. If you use a good skybox with blurred mountains, it will work as well and you'll keep good framerate. Perhaps DOF will do a great job ?

You are right, good effects makes games visually appealing especially when they are exagerated, it gives lot more life to the scene and more power felling to player when it's attack effect like in games like Ratchet and Clank or Zelda Wind Walker !
Zelda Wind Walker

I think the more you work on this game , the more you'll be skilled in this style of game indeed and in level design !
Perhaps you'll make your own Metroid like game after that !

@Superku
Thanx I don't think you should worry about JJ's animation synchronicity at this time, we still don't have their models & animation setts.

...and I must admit, even if it's a bit off at a moment, that I still haven't completely given up on using 2D characters in the game If you think about it, it could still work for the project & it may give a game more original feel.

@Ratchet
I was thinking of very discreet depth of field, just a little blurring of the background environment.

As for shaders, to be honest, up until now I haven't managed to implement them in a way that they would really fit the game scene Red Phoenix (member of the programing team) should send me the newest shader version in a following few days & I'm hoping I will be able to find a good balance that would benefit & not damage the level's visual aspects.

It's much easier when shaders are used in first-person games, I'm used to that concept & I have no problems in implementing them in a satisfactory way. This project is very new to me from the camera & geometry point

As for particles, you're right: we should have as much as possible & as colorful as possible. Txesmi (member of the art team) had a very good idea about some sort of particle-based bonus items that could be scattered across the levels & make everything seem more dynamic.

I'm more worried about the gameplay itself, the movement, I don't like it, I will make it better!

2D characters are nice, we should at least give them a try!

You are right- the gameplay is getting to be more & more complicated. I'm trying to have as simple gameplay routines as I can but sometimes it's not really possible. The coal thing is standard pick-up object action &, I guess, the smoke thing could be made universal in sense of action that changes if variable is modified but the guard coming down to inspect could be more difficult for you to make universal

I will be uploading a bit enhanced level 4 (chapter 3 prototype level) tomorrow evening & I will take this opportunity to also add some of my 2D animations to the level (there will be a key to turn them on/off) just for fun & so that we can see if they could (approximately) fit the visual aspects or not

.........................................
Btw If soemone missed my new level post go here
http://www.opserver.de/ubb7/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=332857#Post332857
.........................................

Hi all, its been a while since I last commented on the project I must complement Ganderoleg on your levels they are looking real nice and I think you did a great job incorporating so much of the overall impute from the prototype levels.

I also think it would be a very good Idea to evaluate or test 2d characters in place of 3d models. Even though I was hoping to have some impute on the design of the 3d models. At any rate some work needs to be done in this area.

I just wonder which will be easier, I might play around with some of the other characters just for fun.

Guardain

@Guardian

Thanx It's been a while now that you haven't been active, I was under the impression that you were no longer interested in this project. I hope you will be able to find more time in the future & maybe re-activate again in some of the project's development segments.

...
I've uploaded new, a bit enhanced, version of level 4 (prototype level) on SkyDrive.

The main changes are rocks beneath the storage rooms, light enhancers, player can't fall from bridge if he change the lain in the ear & elevators have only one enter/exit side (player can't accidentally slide from it or fall from it like before).

I also added two temporary (testing) features: music switcher & few 2D animated characters

Ivan (Dimme) sent me three music themes that he composed for possible usage in Fortress level. I made a small switcher so that each theme can be tried out & evaluated.

Also I added a few of my old 2D animated characters & Txesmi's sister character. It's nothing too serious, I'm not saying we should switch to 2D characters concept but I just wanted to see how they would fit game environment. ...and maybe it's not a bad idea to keep 2D characters option in mind, it could make a game more original and unusual

//////////////////////
Btw I'm having some problems with uploading the level to SkyDrive, I believe it's the fault related to use of Microsoft Silverlight, so I will upload it to SkyDrive as soon as I figure out what is wrong.

>Level has been uploaded successfully to SkyDrive<

//////////////////////

Any feedback on what should be changed & modified is welcome.

Well no I’m still involved as far as I know. But, I only really have interest in the modeling part of things. I never really liked level design much.

As far as I have seen no one has actually made any firm decision on what to do as to the models to be used, or if they should be 2d, or even what art direction to go with them.

Anyway if that ain’t quite so let me know.


Guardian

Hi friends,

Fortunately, i'm close to finishing the first level. I uploaded it to skydrive.

Some screens:






Salud!

I checked out your level & it's very good The textures are fitting nicely & everything is giving out the impression of a balanced design.

I've sent you a mail with more in-depth observations & suggestions.

That's a great piece of work! I would add a few alternative paths / level areas that can be explored, so that the player has to work harder in order to find its way towards the goal and maybe discover some bonuses, etc but apart from that it's perfect

Good winter level !
Just my personnal taste : Why not adding asstes like some big rocks in the cliffs or snow things ? because it looks too simple, without objects to attract our attention or motivate us to discover the rest of the stage !
Juts my opinion, but it's really great for and indie project and will be a great game made with 3D Game Studio !

Keep it up !

Hello team,

I've uploaded new level for J, J & BUM Fortress Chapter (Chapter 3 Level 6) to SkyDrive.

Unfortunately my pc finally died few days ago in spite of my two weeks attempt to revitalize it. I managed to put together, combining my old pc's parts, a 700 Mhz machine that I am using now until I buy a new computer in about a week. This means that I'm very limited in my game-related work (can't force anti-aliasing, can't run ppe, shaders are working very strange & everything is functioning somewhat slow ).

The level is not finished, specially in terms of gameplay, since there are some crucial AI aspects missing and also the level would need few more graphical improvements. George contributed with code solutions for doors, bonus items & early bonus system code.

Since my anti-aliasing is not functioning on this, rudimentary, computer I decided not to display too many screenshots but only three:





Any feedback on what should be changed & modified is welcome...

>Ganderoleg<

Just a short feedback about the light in the levels:

Try to look at the screenshots when they are scaled to a minimum when it becomes difficult to 'understand' what's on the pictures. Then ask yourself whether it looks still interesting, whether it has a unique shape relating brightness and shadows and colors.

Maybe, this is for later, after finishing the levels and their mechanics, but to make your levels perfect, you should aim for unique places with a unique composition of colors, mood and light.

Maybe, looking for painted frames of adventure games is the best way to get ideas on how to improve such things.

Sorry, this feedback is a bit fragmentary, hope it is clear what I mean.

Thanx for checking out the project

It's not very conclusive from the static screens but there are carefully arranged light-layers that follow each room/outdoor level part, enhancing the depth of the environment.

In these screens you can see how I used color contrasts to achieve the foreground/background effect...





In this picture the stairway & cages are dominating the shot because the other environment is much less contrasted. Even the stairways themselves have foreground/background layer...


I, naturally, contrasted the level parts by color as you mentioned & created different moods & feels depending of the room character. In these levels (chapter 3 : Fortress) I have green & red as a main environment dividers.

I realize that this way of level lighting is not really orthodox (and it's a bit experimental) but it has been making a good impression on people that have seen it. It's the first thing they notice & like about the game. As I mentioned the screens are not really that conclusive, the levels should be experienced in motion to get the real impression on the efficiency of the light/color scheme. Once you see it in motion, the light concept is much more straightforward & clearer

Sorry to hear that regarding your computer!
I really like (almost love ) the color scheme in your levels, I would not change it at all.

Thanks for clarifying your concept. I see that there is already a lot of work done relating the lights, maybe, the shadow light difference is - relating to the light and contrast settings of my monitor - simply too weak.
But, I normally have the problem of screenshots in this forum being too dark.

Just a fast modified screen of yours.
I mainly drowned the dark corners in black(they are too dark now, but it was a fast test only), changed some light colors, put sort of sprites on the lights like the window, and covered the floor below in black - don't know whether it were possible ingame, but it is nice, because it avoids distractions from the main room where the player actually is playing.

Don't know whether you consider it as an improvement, though.

Aa now I see what you mean. Yes, the general light contrast is a bit on the bright side There is no totally black areas but the player will be able to set the brightness & alpha levels through the game menu. The higher ambient values, in my opinion, keep the game visually more colorful, cartoony &, let's say, benign.

If we decide along the way to go into a bit more “realistic” or darker direction, I will change light values & also make much stronger ambient occlusion map (ao seems to add that “serious” touch to the visuals )

Btw the hdr/bloom is still not tweaked and, therefor, not present in any of the screens. Once I tweak it & implement it, things will look more moody

Yes the overpainted picture show that simplified lightmaps
can make the level clearer.
Perhaps give a very short range to spots lights, and keep only one directionnal light for all the room ?
And by simply change the main directionnal light direction , you can avoid having too many light map shadows on screen :


In Uncharted , the main floor and walls where the player will go are not covered by lot of shadows to keep things clear !

A point i found is the colors of lights :
The green seems to come from the gems on the wall : make them
light with a small radius, they should not lighten the room
only the wall.
And for the red color, why red ? i htink it's more appropriate for some fire camp or in a submarine, or a total magic level !
Here it begins to be 2 special colors : red and green ,
for design don't mix too much unrealistic colors ,unless it's a really magic level !

Juts my personnal taste only, each people have it's own taste always,each of us will see the perfect game in a different way ! so don't take account a lot from my suggestions or other people suggestions



Well , even like that , it's good and the actual lightmaps make it looks professionnal.
Keep up the good work !

@Ratchet
I understand that lighting could be more conventional if shadows would be toned down, with less contrast & smaller radius, but I didn't want conventional shadows for this project. The screen you posted is great but Uncharted visual style is very far from J, J & BUM concept. This project doesn't rely on realism, don't have blood, don't even have straightforward(face to face) confrontation between players & enemies

You probably watched Disney's 101 Dalmatians cartoon but to see what I mean go here:
http://mayersononanimation.blogspot.com/2008/07/101-dalmatians-part-15.html

...the color in 101 Dalmatians & similar style cartoons (Sword in the stone, Rescuers, Robin Hood...) is, besides the general lighting, also used to point out the feel of the room or dramatic moment. They all have very hard shadows, very contrasted color scheme. This, or more precise similar to this, is what I wanted for J, J & BUM.

I didn't want to create for J, J & BUM lighting that would look realistic in conventional sense(like in games that are going for realistic approach) & didn't want to make another generic children game with almost no shadows & cute, rounded scenery.

I believe that this lighting concept looks interesting & that it could make this project standout when it's screens are compared to screens of other games. I don't think there will be much problems when it comes to recognizing the shapes & depth of the environment because, once in motion, it's very clear where player can/cannot go.

I never seen anyone hit a wall or fall down the stairs when playing these levels & I showed the game to lots of my friends, some of them don't even play games & they managed the movement of the main characters very easy.

Indeed the game have a unique style.
And like i said, it's already beautifull, and surely, the game don't need to be standard. It's good like that indeed.

Check this platform game , when i talk about details , we can see there a lot in the level : lot of plants,flowers and palm trees.

platform game

Be inspired and bring on details on outdoor levels !

Keep it up !

Hi team,

I've uploaded new level for J, J & BUM Fortress Chapter (Chapter 3 Level 5) to SkyDrive.

Everything is still wip (naturally) specially in terms of gameplay, since there are some crucial AI aspects missing and also the level would need few more graphical improvements. In this level Big J should receive the Illusion Spell potion from the mouse (wizard) that would allow her to attract guards attention in order for Little J to hide inside the hollow barrel.

Level is a bit poly-heavy so if we decide that the poly amount is unacceptable I'll try to replace some of the items (mdl's) with sprites & see how that works for the level.

The level comes with three music themes created by Dimme. There is also one new audio effect made for bonus item.

I will upload the gameplay video tomorrow since now is 3:00 in my country

Any feedback on what should be changed & modified is welcome.

Here are few screens for fun:

I have uploaded gameplay video of the chapter 3, level 5 to SkyDrive.

The gameplay for this level is based on three things:

1. Player has an >illusion< potion that he gained in the level from the wizard (mouse).
2. Player can use >illusion< potion two times (there could be a small number next to each potion thumbnail indicating how many times potion can be used).
3. Player must pick up every bonus item in the level in order to finish it.

What the currant version of the level's gameplay demand in terms of code:

1. Classic rotating doors that opens without the switch.
2. Sliding doors that must be opened/closed with the switch but without the need to stand on the switch. There should also be an option to make the doors auto-close.
3. Enemy awareness code solution that would enable the enemy to spot player if he is at the certain distance from him & to go after the player. Same routine should be applied if enemy sees the player's projection (illusion potion). Enemy should not react if player is at reasonable distance behind him or if layer is over his head (gravity switch).
4. Code solution that would not allow finishing of the level unless both BJ & LJ are present near the exit.

All suggestions are welcome

Did you adjust the lighting a bit?

It seems to look a lot better than in previous shots.

Thanx

I de-saturated green & red lights a bit in this level, by 10% approximately. The light-sprites are also different now, more whitish & with higher transparency value.

..I may have went a bit overboard with color saturation in my last level We should start with sister-player model design in a week or two, so after that we'll see how level-light saturation fit with new model & if/what should be changed.

And where di you upload the video? o.O

Thanx for checking out the project

It's agreed that all game-related files should be uploaded to project's Sky Drive account which is unfortunately not public.
..but it's not much of a video, since the level is still wip & also the AI is not implemented yet. It's more of a visual guideline for programers then anything else.

Hello team,

I've uploaded the gameplay video of the chapter 3, level 8 to SkyDrive.

The gameplay for this level is based on three things:

1. The main potion/spell mechanics are changed: all potions that player can use in the particular level will be scattered across that level & player must find & pick them up if he wishes to use them.
2. Player must pick up the exit door key in order to finish the level.
3. Player must pick every bonus item in the level in order to finish it.


What the currant version of the level's gameplay demand in terms of code:

1. Code that would lower the doors of the opened cage, locking the guards inside it (the movement itself can be animated, not coded, if that is easier).

I believe that this is everything that needs to be coded for this level.
All suggestions are welcome

Pavle Nikolic
>Ganderoleg<

The last pictures are really good : ) (personnaly i prefer with less amount of lights or shadows)

One thing, the character don't outcome from the level, it's hard to distinguish it, perhaps , it's more visible in motion ?
Or a texture with more lightened colors or a shader could make it appear more compared to level lightening ?

Keep it up !

@Ratchet
Thanx I am constantly changing a bit of everything in every level.

Most of the screenshots are taken with the larger (sister) model because it reflects level-proportions better but it's, of course, only a placeholder. The real model is going to be designed after the Fortress chapter is done.

.......................
Hi team,

I've uploaded new level for J, J & BUM Fortress Chapter (Chapter 3 Level 8) to SkyDrive.

Since we are heading towards the end of the Fortress chapter (in terms of main geometry, texture & lighting works) & because all levels from this chapter are to be finalized (fine-tuning/modifying of geometry, adding few more props & removing bad design decisions) I wanted to go over the level-lighting once more & to see if there are some other solutions to be followed up before I finalize levels & start with work on the Sister & Lizard Warrior models.

I'm also experimenting with the Sky System plugin from Ello & wanted to see what you think how this should be approached.

So this level contains:

1. Different animated sky's (4) that are triggered by switching through the different music themes composed by Dimme.
2. Different shadowmaps (5) that are essentially not compromising my explicit/contrasted/long shadows concept but are still not very similar.

Any feedback on what should be changed & modified is welcome

..and a few screens with different shadowmaps:


Colormap(standard), Ambient Occlusion(low), Saturation(standard), Material(No.1).


Colormap(standard), Ambient Occlusion(low), Saturation(low), Material(No.1).


Colormap(standard), Ambient Occlusion(low), Saturation(low), Material(No.2).


Colormap(standard), Ambient Occlusion(high), Saturation(low), Material(No.2).


Colormap(grayscale), Ambient Occlusion(high), Saturation(none), Material(No.2).

http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/jjbumc15.jpg
http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/jjbumc17.jpg
http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/jjbumc19.jpg
http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/jjbumc18.jpg
http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/jjbumc16.jpg

I've just watched all of your gameplay videos and I must say that they are fantastic! Not only your great art but the innovative level design, too.

I prefer [shadowmap type 1] and [sky type 1 and 4]!

Hello team,

I uploaded the second version of J, J & BUM Fortress Chapter (Chapter 3 Level 8) to the SkyDrive (Ganderoleg C3 L8 V2).

There are some minor geometry changes made to the roofing, bridge & rocks beneath the fortress, but the main enhancement is the background of the level where I added mountain image & tree panels to give it some depth.

Short video on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofeVgqfhnRw_k&fmt=22

I found interesting to give to the background a bit of sepia coloring to make it stand out. Hope you will also find it to be interesting

Also I'm using new Superku's movement code which I find much better then the older one I was using until now.

Any feedback on what should be changed & modified is welcome.

Fantastic

Some personnal things :
The character seems to have some difficulty to run, like a little injury or i don't know what, but it doesn't impact gameplay.
Perhaps it's animation not closing well ? or perhaps its only test animation.

The character found a potion in front of him, while running,
place potions that forces the player to jump : it breaks the linearity of running gameplay !

Really great level, keep up the hard work !
Believe me , only constant hard work pay, it's general not only IT (important : don't forget to take some good breaks also) !!!!

I think if the team do such as good graphics in next levels, with some interesting ideas of gameplay, bosses, it will be a
really good little game on Steam !

Thanx

The strange run loop is an animation problem and not a problem with Superku's code. The player model is going to be replaced in a week or two, as soon as I finish three more levels of the Fortress chapter.

Yeah, your right about taking a brakes. As it's pointed out in one of my favorite movies with Jack Nicholson, Shining , all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Steam would be so great I really hope that we will be able to polish JJ&BUM in a way that would make this game an interesting material for publishers once it's finished.

Steam would be so great I really hope that we will be able to polish JJ&BUM in a way that would make this game an interesting material for publishers once it's finished.

It's possible, a rule in life is to target hight, believe in it,
dream of it !
If all the levels have that quality it's possible indeed !
Steam have several section like Arcade , Casual etc ...
If the game is polished in presentation , interface, gameplay,
it can be sold in a section of Steam i think, and it can motivate the team also to target Steam.
Even if it didn't go in Steam, you 'll find another publisher i think also !

Hi2all,

I've uploaded level solution for J, J & BUM Fortress Chapter boss-battle arena (Ganderoleg C3 LBossB V1) to SkyDrive.

The one problematic thing about this level is the Boss (spider-like monster). The monster will have to be bigger then one regular lane but, because of the towers at the middle of the level, his boundary box will have to be lane-wide in order for him to move freely to the left or right. This means that his boundary box would have to be unsymmetrical to his geometry.



I am not very good at programming so I don't know if this could easily be solved by code, but my solution would be to fake the turn by just animating it: monster moves -X, stops, monster displays turn animation, monster moves +X. There will be no actual movement while the model turns around, only the turning animation.

Also I coded a small action that triggers the battle music ones the player enters the arena. The code itself will naturally have to be replaced with more advanced solution but this is a small example of how the atmospheric/battle music switching could look like. The music changes from Ivan's atmospheric music theme (Dream.ogg) to battle-music theme (Beholder.ogg).

Once I finish last two levels from the J,J&BUM chapter 3 I will click together another non-code level (Ganderoleg C3 NonCoded V2) with last non-coded entities from the chapter 3.









http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/jjbumc21.jpg

http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/jjbumc20.jpg

http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/jjbumc23.jpg

http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/jjbumc25.jpg

Any feedback on what should be changed & modified is welcome.
All the best.
Pavle Nikolic >Ganderoleg<

I've read your whole text several times, but I did not get it yet. I guess the spider-thing (looks very evil btw ) is not supposed to pass through solid matter? Please try to explain the problem in more detail!
I think it's best to give the spider no world collision detection at all, just check for the player model (realizable via group or push).

The level is nice as usual (downloading it right now), there are only some minor issues:

• In the 4th picture there's a wooden path (?) in the background. It looks quite weird, sorry. I would either enhance or remove it. (EDIT: Looks okay in-game!)
• The whole staircase (21.jpg) looks awesome, I really like it! (Not really an issue! :> )
• EDIT: On the right staircase you have to pass through wooden planks to get to the next level.
• 23.jpg: The wooden plank in the middle of the screen is floating in the air. The big circle with the dark grid could use some work, there are visible seams next to the boy.
  I would add some kind of salient edge to the brick ground (not only the circle) where it meets the dark grid, so both elements blend together nicely. Alternatively, you could make the circle smoother. (EDIT: It's funny to run below the spider and to see the player through the "dark parts" (don't know the right word).)
• What's the purpose of the telescopes? (EDIT: Okay, now I know it! :>) I would add three small drop shadows at their feet.

Keep on doing such great levels!

EDIT: Do you use (sometimes) level geometry (WED blocks) for your levels?

Thanx I'm very glad you like the level.

I received mail from George and, since there are only towers that are obstructing the spider-boss movement, he suggested that we make them passable for spider. This is my replay from the mail I've sent him, see if you also agree:

The wooden path in the 4th image is connecting the third (back) doors to the arena with the two small posts outside. It will be much clearer when you run the level.

The floating plank is fixed, I've also seen it in the image yesterday when it was too late, everything was already uploaded to Sky Drive As for grid, you are 100 % right. I'm not happy with how it fits & how the edges are blended with the stone-ground. That will all be improved in the level's second version (hopefully the entire chapter will be finalized in a two weeks).

Telescopes are a part of the level's gameplay solution. There is a Gameplay.txt file included in the level's zip, if you like you can check it out.

Hello2all,

I've uploaded level 7 for J, J & BUM Fortress Chapter (Ganderoleg C3 L7 V1) to SkyDrive.

From movement angle, this level is relaying on two things:
1.Players can't move more then two crates at once, one on top of the other. For moving three or more crates players will need strength potion.
2.Players can strife/change lanes only while walking not while jumping.

There is a small, let's call it, bug with lifts: when positioned behind wall, elevators starts moving even if approached from different lane.

Apart from Ello's sky system (that we are going to replace once George finishes his own sky system) the new thing is background buildings & early DOF solution (Shade-C). The background building visual effect can't really pop-out in this level because the level is indoor oriented, and DOF can be turned off by putting 0 in Bloom.txt file.

Any feedback on what should be changed & modified is welcome









http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/jjbumc32.jpg

http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/jjbumc34.jpg

http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/jjbumc33.jpg

Btw I forgot to upload the gameplay video, I'll put it tomorrow on SkyDrive.

Gameplay video for level 7 is now uploaded to SkyDrive.

I must admit that I'm having very hard time in finding the effects that fit good with my levels. Every time I try to implement something it seems to do the opposite thing, instead of making the level look better it just makes level look strange or uglier.

At this point I believe that I am in no position to be objective because I looked at the levels for far to long so I think maybe someone else could take a look to see if I am right or wrong.

I've uploaded a small +DOF/-DOF video of the last level to FileFront. It would be great f someone could find time to download it, check it out & see if level looks better/worse with or without DOF. Just post reply here, send pm or mail me.

Here is the link to JJ&BUM_DOF.zip on FileFront:
http://www.filefront.com/17392507/JJBUM_DOF.zip

Since this is a very delicate visual distinction & video is in high quality, the zip is a bit heavy and weights 62mb.

Ok I took a look.

I like the DOF effect concerning the castle parts in the background. The background layer itself gets very blurry though - and it does not look like intended but more like low resolution.

Inside the castle the DOF is not really visible, but I think this is just fine.
Mabye a weaker DOF effect would do better? Main problem is the background layer I think.

Thanx for downloading the video

Yeah, the DOF is barely visible inside, there is only a small amount of blurring being active on the foreground objects which is ok. The background of the level is another story, the blurring is to intense. I've tried to bring it down a bit through the blurstrength parameter but without much success.

It's Shade-C DOF & here are the values from sc_dof.h script:
//var sc_dofParams[3] = {500, 1300, 0.8}; //These are Shade-C original values
var sc_dofParams[3] = {700, 1600, 0.01};//My values
// x = focal plane depth "area of sharpness"
// y = focal plane pos
// z = blurstrength

..I even made blurstrength to be super-small & still everything in the background is very blurry.

I've had a look at your video.
The level looks nice, as usual, and I especially like the background (-towers)!

For my taste the DOF effect fits nicely, I would not remove it.

Hi,

I have uploaded to Sky Drive new versions of Fortress Chapter levels 1 & 2 (Ganderoleg C3 L1 V3.zip & Ganderoleg C3 L2 V2.zip).

Apart from Ello's Sky System (..that should be replaced once George completes his own sky system) the new things are some minor geometry re-designs, background buildings, few bonus/potion items & implemented DOF solution (Shade-C).

I have deleted all my (rudimentary:) modifications of Superku's code so some of the gameplay-relevant entities are not working anymore, also potions & bonus item are not functional at this time. DOF can be turned off by putting 0 in Bloom.txt file.

The glowing yellow bottle will be Gravity Switch potion. The glowing blue bottle will be Invisibility potion. The glowing mushroom and quartz are bonus items:)

Any feedback on what should be changed & modified is welcome.

Chapter 3 Level 1






http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c3_l1_10.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c3_l1_12.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c3_l1_14.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c3_l1_16.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c3_l1_17.jpg

Chapter 3 Level 2






http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c3_l2_13.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c3_l2_12.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c3_l2_14.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c3_l2_16.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c3_l2_15.jpg

This is looking better and better!
Also the background does not appear that smeary anymore with DOF turned on. Whatever you changed, it seems to work out well.

Thanx, I managed to make DOF work more in my favor & also united colors of the level background a bit by placing all background objects under the same sepia panel:)

...
I've uploaded a small preview of my last modifications made to the J, J & BUM chapter 3, levels 1 & 2. The background music is composed by Ivan.

Check it out here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4J9C6boebo
Enjoy:)

Great, great

Hi,

I have uploaded new versions of Fortress Chapter levels 3 (Ganderoleg C3 L3 V2.zip) to Sky Drive.

Apart from Ello's sky system (that we are going to replace once George finishes his own sky system) the new things are some minor geometry re-designs, background buildings, few bonus/potion items, implemented DOF solution (Shade-C) & screen.txt file for controlling the 16:9/4:3 resolution & camera distance.

In this version I have switched to Superku's new mouse-oriented script (Movement0510_D) so that we can see how that concept works for project. I have made some small (& far from final) changes in visual segment to make system-visuals more compatible with my levels. I believe that even cursor (red direction/speed dot) could be preserved if we make it to be a suitable particle effect

I have deleted all my (rudimentary:) modifications of Superku's code so some of the gameplay-relevant entities are not working anymore, also potions & bonus item are not functional at this time. DOF can be turned off by putting 0 in Bloom.txt file.

The screen txt file controls the 16:9/4:3 resolution which changes the camera distance when switched (0=4:3/1300, 1=16:9/1500).

Also there are some changes in audio segment, Ivan composed a new Fortress background music theme that follows a different, more natural sound concept.

Any feedback on what should be changed & modified is welcome.









http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/l3v2_015.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/l3v2_014.jpg

Great stuff! There were some errors inside the sky and dof shaders when using your published exe, but everything worked fine inside the engine. The level looks very good and the new movement code looks interesting; nevertheless, I wonder how we could change the lanes properly. The contextual (right click) menu is a good time saver and Ivan's new soundtrack sounds majestic

Thanx George, I am using mouse-oriented code also in new two levels. Changing lanes is really a bit off, it doesn't seem to be very precise.

...
I have uploaded new versions of Fortress Chapter levels 4 & 5 (Ganderoleg C3 L4 V3.zip & Ganderoleg C3 L5 V2.zip) to Sky Drive.

Things are somewhat same as before, I'm using Ello's sky system, there are some minor geometry re-designs, background buildings, few bonus/potion items implemented, also DOF (Shade-C) & screen.txt file for controlling the 16:9/4:3 resolution & camera distance.

I will start to replace some of my old actions with Martin's new code solutions in levels 6 & above. After that I will go back to previous levels & replace rest of the actions. DOF can be turned off by putting 0 in Bloom.txt file.

The screen txt file controls the 16:9/4:3 resolution which changes the camera distance when switched (0=4:3/1300, 1=16:9/1500).

There are also some further changes made in audio segment, Ivan enhanced his new Fortress background music theme.

Any feedback on what should be changed & modified is welcome.

Chapter 3 Level 4






http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c3_l4_10.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c3_l4_12.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c3_l4_11.jpg

Chapter 3 Level 5






http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c3_l5_13.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c3_l5_14.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c3_l5_11.jpg

Hi2all,

I have uploaded new version of Fortress Chapter level 6 (Ganderoleg C3 L6 V2.zip) to Sky Drive.

In this version I have added some of the Martin's code solutions. The basket with monster/spider food is working excellent but there are some problems with doors, they are not taking into account the given Z input and, more importantly, they are causing some sort of error when combined with DOF The error seems to crash the level when the level is started through exe but it can be ignored (by clicing the ok button) when played in WED/SED. DOF can be turned on/off by putting 1/0 in DOF.txt file.

There are also problems concerning the movement of the monster outside the cage, the model's geometry has to be placed away from the second lane center in order for it not to get unrealistically 'mixed' with level environment. I made a small ent_morph solution but real solution should have a variable that places/displaces the model to the center/left/right of the lane his positioned in.

Any feedback on what should be changed & modified is welcome.









http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/shot_111.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/shot_311.jpg

Pavle,

Great job! You know that I'm one of your fans
Just sent you an email with a few comments and screenshots.

George

Thanx George

...
I finished the second version of my level solution for J, J & BUM Fortress Chapter Level 7. The zip is on SkyDrive (Ganderoleg C3 L7 V2.zip)

In this version I have switched to Superku's (Felix) new movement code (Movement051210) & made some minor design changes. Redphoenix's (Martin) script is also included but I couldn't test compatibility because there are no entities that use script in this level.

The level is not fully playable but all missing solutions are listed in Toodledo board.

Any feedback on what should be changed & modified is welcome.









http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/jjbum710.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/jjbum713.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/jjbum711.jpg

Professionnal grahics

My personnal idea :
- the spider monster is hard to distinguish caus of colors , textures and lightening that mixes it on the level like a
chameleon.
Why not using special colors for a non existing monster ?
Colors or a shader that pops it up from the level ?
Just my opinion.

Keep up the work !

This was a very, very good idea I actually realized it after reading your post & started few experiments. After a while I have found that the toon shader was just the thing I was after. It really opened up a completely new level of thinking about the model coloring & design for this game.

I have made a few modifications on spiders with standard Toon shader from GS 7.84, here are some screens..













What I need is few toon shaders, I was thinking of trying out different things and maybe even have older & newer shader versions so that even older computers can process the whole thing.

Very good

The green and Blue verions of spiders are those that really shows off from the level, the other versions are colors that matches or mix too much with level colors !
Once agains only my personnal point of view.

Keep it up !

I found a cool video, it seems to be a different prototype game,but it has some similar ideas :

Youtube platform game

You could propose some bonus after beating the game, like some VR misions a la Metal Gear solid.
With a look similar to this video or the video game Portal.

I'm not convinced by the toonstyle, it doesn't fit. Better, use a stronger color and attach it to parts of the model. The model doesn't have to be all blue to be distinguished from the level. Strong, somehow glowing, color at some parts should do the thing. Just my two cents.

(BTW, ratchet, the video is from the same project. Felix Pohl = Superku )

@Ratchet
Yeah, the Untitled Platformer is J, J & BUM This seems to be visual presentation of the update of the movement code. Felix (Superku) is the author of the movement code (& all entities that can be seen in the video) for J, J & BUM.

@Pappenhaimer
I must admit I decided to use red, it gives it a sort of flaming thing You may be right about toon shader, similar thing can be achieved with stronger colors but I do like shadows & outlines. They are not so visible though..

...
Rework of the level 8 (Ganderoleg C3 L8 V3.zip) is done & uploaded to SkyDrive.

In this level I used Superku's newest movement code. There are some (minor) things I changed in code & some suggestions that I will put on Tooldeo board.

The thing that we should consider is that we will probably have a number of different enemies in the game that must not play violent 'slash' or 'shoot' animations when they caught JJ's. This means that we would have to have some sort of 'caught' animations for every different type of enemy and, unless we recruit a very good animator, this will not be possible. So my idea was to have a fadeout sequence every time enemy gets critically near to one of the JJ's. I implemented standard fading with black panel but the sequence can be more toon-like with circle or stars & maybe even have a accompanying music? I believe that this approach is suggestive enough & it saves us the trouble of animating the caught-act. If someone has a better idea we can always switch to it.

In this level I have two different enemy models, the lower one is my redesign of Dexsoft Fantasy Warrior model that I did for my project Blade Of Power & the upper is Dragon Knight model that I downloaded from 3d Game Studio site. It seems that, when compared, models that are less realistic by proportions are more adequate for levels. I don't know if the rest of the team will also see it this way.

Hi,

Second version of J, J & BUM Fortress Chapter boss-battle arena level (Ganderoleg C3 LBossB V2) is uploaded to SkyDrive.

One of the problematic thing about this level is the Boss (spider-like monster). While chasing the players, monster just goes through arena wall & falls down through the wooden path

The small action that triggers the battle music ones player enters the arena is no longer active since Ivan asked me to wait until he composes a new battle theme.

Also I've made a video that shows first solutions of level-fail (followed by level restart) sequences for J, J & BUM..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5Tm1rO2Lr0

..my favorite is No.2 but they are all just an early concept with lots of room for improvement:)

Any feedback on what should be changed & modified is welcome.








http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/jjbumb13.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/jjbumb11.jpg

About the death sequence:
Evil Twin: Cyprien's Chronicles could be an inspiration. Unfortunately I didn't find the death sequence itself, but the walk of the hero in the beginning of the following video is sort of what the animation in this sequence is: A slap to get the dust off the trousers, and then the walk with slowly weighty steps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njWXshgRkQk

Another game, the style of your levels reminded me to it:
the ugly prince duckling
http://www.adventurespiele.net/module-pnvideos-view-vid-432.htm
Maybe, it give additional overall inspirations

@Pappenheimer
Thanx for links. The Ugly Prince Duckling looks very nice, it has a very unique visual concept, I like it

Yeah, the 'death' sequence should be just like you described in Evil Twin: non-violent & a bit casual. I was thinking that maybe scene could look like this..

When cought:
1.The player surroundings are getting more red & after 1sec all but player is in high sepia color.
2.At the same time there's a zoom similar to the one we already have, zooming on the player.
3.If it's brother his crying, if it's sister she's crouching frightened.

..or something similar to this.
I believe that the part where everything is getting more red, except for players, can be achieved through use of customized shader.

Hello2all,

I've been experimenting with few things and was thinking of adopting two new visual additions: distorted shadowmaps & Shade-C HDR.
Here is an example of shadowmap with & without new effect:

Without..

With..

Unfortunately there are some inconsistencies in almost 50% of the cases because of the shadow UV mapping..

I can (probably) solve this in future levels but even in this percentage they seem to be effective & give the surroundings a nice additional quality (I think?). They will be present in following level reworks so that we can all see if this is something that should be implemented or not.

http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/shot_212.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/shot_213.jpg

Also here are few screens of level with implemented HDR..





..the effect will be tweaked further but I think that, even in this stage, levels seem a bit more lively?

Hi!

I know I'm not part of the team any more, but I would like to say that you guys are doing great. It's very cool to follow this and see it come together piece by piece. Keep it up!

To your last post, ganderoleg, yes, the effect does look great. Keep it. However, it should be tweaked more. It's too bright. Also, I think the green and red lights are a little overdone. They look a little unnatural. Mabye just reduce the palette a little?
Here's a few screens from a platformer I liked very much, Trine:
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/3419/1080702-trine2009_07_0221_05_47_11.jpg
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4674/trine11.jpg

They use a lot of colors, but not so much complementaries and more subtle colors.

Keep it up!

Micha

@Germanunkol
Thanx for your nice comments Everything is still to be tweaked but I think we're slowly getting to the desired visual effects.

I checked the screens, Trine does seem to have a similar color concept but they managed to unify colors much, much better. The HDR in J,J&BUM made things a bit more complicated because it amplified the colors intensity/saturation. I may even have to use some of the other lightmap solutions I experimented with earlier (http://www.opserver.de/ubb7/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=341336#Post341336) that have a higher percentage of ambient occlusion.

...
I have uploaded a 'test' level for HDR, characters & shaders to SkyDrive as 'Ganderoleg C3 L2 V3.zip'.

In this level I have finally expended the gameplay with 'platform' enemies: dogs (they are going to be armored) that run around & can 'kill' player Dogs are going to be redesigned & their run animation is going to be fixed a bit (legs look too stiff in run animation)..



I was going to add enemies that should be jumped-over but the players seem to hit them no matter what height they are.

There are (so far) three different types of enemy texture-shader combinations in this level: first is toon shader & toon-like texture, second is toon shader & normal texture and third is simple material & normal texture. I must admit I give my vote to the first concept with toon shader & simplified texture..



There are also some expansions concerning the background characters, I added bats that fly around at the higher parts of the level & dragon that loops near the fortress wall. I attend to have even more different background characters throughout the levels to make things visually more dynamic..



HDR is still not tweaked & it's too bright but I will fix that soon.

added bats that fly around at the higher parts of the level & dragon that loops near the fortress wall

Really geeat idea
Details like that make the game lot more alive than standard games having only ennemies and player.

For the ennemy model, your pictire is too smal to really see the difference.
But i like the second version, i think realistic texture matches better with the textures of the level that are realistic also.
Juts my personnal opinion.

Keep up the hard and great work !

Happy New Year to everyone

@Ratchet
Thanx, your input was very much appreciated during the design of this chapter
I decided to go with simplified texture version for now but, since it's just a matter of different texture, I may go with a more realistic one if it turns out to be more likeable.

...
I have, let's say, completed for now my tweaking of chapter 3 level geometry & ppe effects. There are some design errors that George found that I will take care of but, after that, I will call level design & ppe for chapter 3 finished. Later on I will add more level props like different shields & flags, wooden props & I'm not so happy with how the bridges look but that will all wait until game is nearing it's end.

What I did in level one is: distorted lightmaps & lowered their saturation, lowered map ambiance, added HDR, desaturate & colorshift ppe, and also resized & enhanced wall & floor textures.

I still have to implement these modifications to all 9 levels but it's a simple process & it won't take more then 4h. I decided, however, not to upload these levels at this time to SkyDrive because things are already a bit crowded in my folder & I will have to upload them anyway when they became playable from programming side. As the gameplay gets coded &, one by one, levels became functional I will upload them to SkyDrive.

Now I will focus on finding, modifying & polishing models & trying to extend gameplay a bit with different, more platform-like, props & problems (dogs, turtles, fire-obstacles..). Also I will start with a thing I agreed with George some time ago, which concerns making a sort of sample levels (geometry & lightmaps) for few other chapters. This is a good idea because when we begin searching for people interested to join project as a level designers they will have not only global design directions but also real geometry to work with & expand as they seem fit.

Here's a link to the video of chapter 3, level 1 gameplay..
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyf84iP2pFk
//////////////////////

..and also few screens of the level..

While the level looks really good, I don't like the cartoon texture of the enemy. model. It just is a different style which imho does not fit to the level.

professionnal work level

The game runs incredibly smooth and good , very good thing.
The flying birds and moving fog on background add lot to the atmosphere!
Backgounrd castel and ennemies on them brings a lot also !
Really great, you've reached some really great level in
making some levels with lot of life and things going on it !

Another great point :
The lightening and lightmapps are really great now,
it's veru very far lot better from what was overdone in the beginning !
Now that only lights were needed without exegerated shadows :
great work !

I forgot , flying banner is great also

Personnal only taste :
-Make the birds fly with a random speed !
All birds seem to fly too fast like in a shoot them up
Make some fly around slowly and disappear or some go and come back to disappear !
Make them flying some little above and down variation also !

-Add simple blob shadows to ennemies and player, evene blob shadow is very afficient and like that characters won't seem
to fly on ground and won't seem to be detached from the level!

Such quality level could easily feet some Rreally great 2.5D Action RPG game easily (perhaps your next game )

i don't have seen snow level, but i hope you'll put life on it like snow falling down, animals on background or
people fishing, hunting or anyhting else (just use google to find pictures to be inspired) !


Well pro work like i said !

Keep up the great work !

@Firoball
Thanx for checking out Artists' Corner from time to time, I am always happy when there are some good or bad things to read about artwork for J,J & BUM
..and you're right, I kept cartoon shader but decided against simplified textures after some experimenting. It seems that a bit more realistic textures fit better after all.

@Ratchet
Thanx, but luckily smoothness of the game doesn’t have anything to do with me, it's all Superku's credit. As a matter of fact I believe that those few code solutions that I contributed to the project are probablly slowing down his movement code

So as you have probably concluded by now from upper text, the birds are result of my programming effort but I will try to enhance them a bit with random speeds & directions, they do seem a bit 'robotic' at the moment.

It's still early to really think about my next project, I have also Blade Of Power (http://pavlenikolic.weebly.com/blade-of-power.html)& Sorcerers (http://pavlenikolic.weebly.com/sorcerers.html) to consider, but what I would really like to do in the near future is full first-person horror game similar to the Clive Barker's Undying (http://www.jonhunt.com/undying2/index.html) or Call Of Cthulhu (http://www.callofcthulhu.com/home.html).

.................
Hello2All,

Finally, after long time, we have our first fully functional, fully playable level I almost gave up on this but here it is

Uploaded zip (Ganderoleg C3 L1 V5.zip) represents playable version of the J, J & BUM's first level of the Fortress Chapter.

I have made two necessary modifications to the code in order for this level to be fully playable:
1.Sister can use magic skills only when she picks up magic potions & she can only pick up Gravity Switch & Illusion potion.
2.Brother can use magic skills only when he picks up magic potions & he can only pick up Invisibility potion.

Apart from that, there are some new additions to the geometry, fade out when restarting the level & a small HUD tryout, little 'inventory' for potions & items in right & left corners of the screen...








I also replaced Goblin Warrior in this level with my new Crocodile Warrior (to make him 'lighter' there are only stand, walk, run & die animations)...




...this doesn't mean that I'm going to exclude Goblin Warrior but I will have to redesign it a bit in order for him to reach needed visual level.

**both my Goblin Warrior & Crocodile Warrior are modifications/redesigns of Dexsoft 'Fantasy Warrior' model & that information will be clearly stated in the final version of the game.

This ennemy croco is great !

For your next, game , indeed some original gamplay could
bring a lot.
Even more an FPS taking part in devil world with additional gameplay lik not only shooting ennemies, but resolving physic puzzles , some different gameplay phases would be great !

With your actual skill in lightmapping it would be great visually i think, without needing shaders on the level (or baked normal map on textures with lightmap on level) !

I hope the new collision system using Nvidia Physics will be here when you'll begin your new game.
Caus it will be lot better to manage without problem all collisions of the game.
Unity already uses the physic engine for all collisions !

Hello,

Finally, after a long (a LONG) time I'm uploading & posting some new things to SkyDrive & Artist's Corner:) The all-rounded-up and finalized Fortress chapter will be done by Monday but now I am posting chapter 4 level that represents the new chapter/level concept that George & me talked about. It's a first person drive-through level that breaks a platforming concept after every 9 levels. The J,J&BUM chapters should look a bit like this:

1.Tutorial (Txesmi's tutorial level)
2.Dungeon (regular 8+BossBattle)
3.Sewer (escape with steam-engine wooden boat from the dungeon region)
4.Fortress (regular 8+BossBattle)
5.Forest (escape with big steam-engine car from the fortress region)
6.Mansion (regular 8+BossBattle)
7.Mountains (chase BUM with mechanical-steam flying-helicopter to his castle)
8.BUM's Castle (regular 8+BossBattle)
9.Swamp (get to the Swamp Castle by riding on the giant turtle)
10.Swamp Castle (Big BossBattle level)

So, there are still 3 regular platfom-like chapters & 3 fps levels left to do. Unfortunately the game team is at this time a bit low on artists:( Thanks to Felix, Martin & George the main parts of the game code are almost done & Ivan is working very intensely on finishing needed music & audio effects, but, as for visual part, we are running very, very low on content:( I believe that the main problem is related to the nature of modeling/texturing/lighting of geometry which is incredibly time-consuming process.

So I guess, in a very (extremely:) near future, we will have to find at least one more member for the art team interested in making level geometry. When I talked to George about this issue we had an idea that I could make a sort of level-sample geometry for each chapter that the team member can use/modify or create similar geometry that is complementary to the given sample. That will save him much time & unify the levels visual approach.

.....
Uploaded work represents my level solution for J, J & BUM Forest Chapter (Chapter 4 Level 1). I have hoped that I will have 90% of this level/chapter (since this is the only level for this chapter) finalized & functional but unfortunately I came across some severe problems with lightmaps & few other things:(

Things that are missing from this level:

1.Gameplay:)
2.Tree & grass models/code solutions are still to be implemented.
3.Main car model is not done.
4.Level lighting is temporary.
5.Enemy routine & models are not done.

Concerning the music themes, Ivan composed two different songs that you can switch between by pressing M key. It would be nice if you can gives some feedback about which one you preferred:) As for audio effects, he was busy with the Fortress level but he managed to finish SFX for the engine & horn. Other effects are muted & will be replaced as soon as all required Fortress SFX are finished.

Screens of the 4th chapter so far...











http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c4l1v116.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c4l1v117.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c4l1v118.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c4l1v120.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c4l1v119.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c4l1v121.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c4l1v122.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c4l1v123.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c4l1v125.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/c4l1v124.jpg

I've uploaded a patch for J, J & BUM Forest Chapter (Chapter 4 Level 1) with lightmaps for towers, new textures with more complementary colors for vegetation & terrain, and also enhanced car model with additional geometry & steam particles that are coming out of the engine:) I'm not so happy with how the steam is behaving when car speed is high but it's not visually unacceptable:)







I also tried to add the same materials that I'm using in Fortress chapter but, somehow, it's not really working for this level:(





I will have to find a way to have similar visual impression in both chapters but without the use of the reddish materials for drive-through level. At this time I have no idea on how to do this:( Also the Shade-C DOF is, so far, untweakable for this level, everything is waaay to blury when I try to use it:(

Great progress, and great commercial quality coming game

Now my personnal impressions :
- first screens that don't use a red color look lot better than the last ones (specially for the car level).
- Textures look somewhat poor !
Why not using a mesh instead of terrain using a normal map
or more simple, a detailled 1024 or 2048 texture terrain with baked normal map ?
- Why not adding some trees, some plants ?
- The terrain recover some parts of the fortress strangely,like a door of the castle ???
People would have not construct a door that could not be open, or perhaps it have been some cataclysm ?
- The particle effect, looks a bit exagerated sometimes, you
can't the car, perhaps make it more thin or make it going
from the top sides ?

Keep up the good work !

Yeah, the red material works nice in the platform levels of chapter 3 but it fails to do the same thing when applied in the car level:( But I will have to find the way to make the visuals from chapter 3 more comparable with visuals from the car level (chapter 4) since the fortress architecture should be more-less similar.

As for lights they are temporary since I'm having some troubles with parts of the geometry:



..I'm modeling everything in WED & using Blender to do the lighting but this time nothing worked, recalculating the normals inside/outside in Blender gave no results, experiments with edges, vertex, different import parameters.. nothing. It seems I will have to rework/replace the problematic segments in WED & try again with the lighting in Blender.

Plants are on hold for now, until we implement AI routine & get through these light issues. My Idea was to have a vegetation placed on 70% of all terrain parts covered with grass:)

Terrain is a mdl file that uses Txesmi's terrain shader that supports blendmap, 4 different textures & lightmap.



I'm actually not unhappy with how it looks, not really sure why I can't capture it the right way in a screenshot, but when you play the level it all seems very good.





The thing that will enhance it further is more advanced lightmap, for now I've done only ambient occlusion in Blender.



The doors & particles needs to be tweaked, I already had some suggestions about that from Ivan:)
Btw, thanx for checking out the project, your feedback is always very good & constructive:)

Hello,

I've uploaded the J, J & BUM Chapter 3 Version 2 rar (in 3 parts) to SkyDrive:)

I was hopping to have that chapter finished by now but unfortunately the new, second version of the Fortress is still only partially done:( The levels with finished geometry & gameplay are 1, 2, 3 & 5, level 6 has finalized geometry but missing gameplay, and levels 4, 7, 8 & 9 are still to be redesigned.

The main modifications that I've made in code are related to rotating doors that must be opened with >E<, enhanced Illusion Spell that is now almost gameplay-compatible and number of small, mostly HUD-oriented or prop-oriented changes. Next level loading, restarting & dying no longer has error messages & it seems to be fully functional.

As for music & audio effects, Ivan finished most of the work so the Fortress chapter now has almost all needed files, only few sounds are missing like character voices & death sequences:) The new things concerning the music are two battle themes & two dramatic themes that can be switched during gameplay in levels 3 & 9.

I made a video of a small enemy bug that is happening when there are two enemies going from chase to walk at the same time..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0Uzqos30_s

..and also made a short video of how the level 5 from chapter 3 looked in his first & last version:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gv9fZHMvQg

I will also post some screens as soon as I get around to it.

..and here are some fresh screens from the new Fortress version:)













http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/border11.jpg
http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/border12.jpg
http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/border14.jpg
http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/border17.jpg
http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/border18.jpg
http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/border20.jpg
http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/border21.jpg
http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/border22.jpg

Fantastic work! (PM )

Amazing ! Professionnal quality game.

Great job on spider their realistic skin match lot more now with realistic look of the level !

It's a game FOR STEAM wihtout problem if quality is as good on all levels !
I'll buy it , if it goes to it

Thanx, I really appreciate comments & suggestions, they are always welcome:) Especially if comments are referencing to J,J&BUM & STEAM in a positive way:):)

Yeah, since I gave up on high-contrasted color concept for levels spiders are fitting much better with more realistic texture-look:)

I just hope I will be able to solve that DOF problem in non-platform levels, it's still too intense no matter what parameters I put.

Why not using simple blurred image on background and some
alpha image on front of it to simulate Blurring ?
Or simply blurr textures on background objects, and use simple
Bloom to make things blurr also !

DOF should be optionnal indeed in the options :
- DOF on
- DOF off : Use of Bloom instead

Keep it up !

Yes, that was my strategy also but it didn't really work because there was a big difference between platform & open-terrain levels. In platform levels everything is functioning as it should. The new Shade-C will maybe solve this and if not I'll try some alternative DOF solutions to Shade-C (if there are any:)

What you can od is to use Unified colors on background like all objects that uses variations of a color (with a fullscreen
fastest effect like simple bloom ):


DOF even optimised will always use lot more ressources and power than Bloom indeed. So they should be in options !
Or perhaps use why not some fog or faked with several Alpha planes.

Keep it up !

@Ratchet
You are right, DOF did eat-up a lot of fps &, since I am not able to tweak it, I decided to exclude it at this time. As for unified color of the background I am using red, it seemed/seems to fit o.k.

............
My work on J,J&BUM is a bit slow this month because I'm finishing up a personal project that I've been working on for a long time, but nevertheless there are some news:)

First, the problem with visual compatibility between platform & open-terrain levels is now resolved: I gave up on reddish material in platform levels:)
Second, since the DOF effect is problematic because I can't tweak it nicely & because it's heavy on the fps I decided to exclude it for now, at least until the good solution can be found.
Third, I will try to replace HDR with regular Bloom if I find one that will fits o.k.
Fourth, I went a bit too far with lowering the colors & in making the game partly more realistic then it should be so I added the toon outlining:) Now it has a nice semi-realistic texture/color style but also toon-like appearance:)
Fifth, I removed the previous sky system because it was not resetting itself properly when game is restarted, leaving the sky completely without the clouds, & because it was eating away fps like there's no tomorrow:) I added my, temporary, sky solution that I believe is adequate.

Here are some screens of the new solutions:











http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/jjbum_16.jpg
http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/jjbum_15.jpg
http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/34/97/23/jjbum_19.jpg

Looking commercial quality !
The backgournd is really nice.
And i like a lot the cartoon outline, it pop up objects in some way, and give some "BorderLands" touch that i like a lot

Keep it up.

Great work. This project has come a long way. These last screens really look awesome!

No news ?

The last screesn are amazing !
The game shoudl be on Steam already

lol looks like aum100 took a lot out of george and pavle

Thanx for showing interest, the development is a bit slow at this moment:( My contribution for George's AUM 100 didn't take too much time since most of the geometry was a rework of my 'Sorcerers' level parts but it did set me back a weeks or two. But in the last two months I have been finishing up my old project that I've been working on for some time & with any luck I will be able to pack it by the end of the August:) In a few days I will probably make a thread in the Showcase with the small demo.

As for J,J&BUM, I noticed that the view count of Artist Corner is now well over 50.000 views & I did plan a small thing when count reaches this amount:) At the start of the J,J&BUM development, the art team needed to come up with a global design solution that would serve as a reference for the first, actual design of the levels. I was thinking of posting my old design variations that were based on George's Untitled Platformer code but also other design solutions from, at that time active, members of the art team. I will include only early level solutions that are based on Untitled Platformer code & not on the code that Felix created & later enhanced together with Martin & George.

For now, I gained permission to include material submitted by Germanunkol & Txesmi and I'm still waiting for permissions from Bug, Guardian & SirCamaris. So I guess in a two/three days I will be able to upload the zip & post a link to these files:) Here are a few shots of these levels:

///////////////////////////////////////////
Germanunkol



http://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/11/34/97/23/german11.jpg

///////////////////////////////////////////
Txesmi



http://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/11/34/97/23/txesmi11.jpg

///////////////////////////////////////////
Ganderoleg







http://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/11/34/97/23/gander13.jpg

///////////////////////////////////////////

Very good idea to mix people level design !
Ganderoleg have a very medieval, building structure design that is really good and other people have different things going on :
for example i like the trees that goes trhought the room.

The last in game screenshots with cartoon shader are just beautiful !

Keep it up ! (i feel a great sucessfull indie game on steam )

-----------------

@Ganderoleg :
Are you in the forums these days ?
I have some questions about lightmapping from Blender to A8 for you !!

At the beginning the idea was to have a different design concepts, ranging from 2D to 3D solutions, and then to choose the one that would serve as a dominant game design approach. We actually gave up on 2D very early in the development because it would be much harder for art team members to mimic 2D art then to mimic 3D geometry. ..of course in those days we had 8 art team members:)

At the end it was decided to go with 3D levels that have 3D & 2D elements & to adopt semi-realistic visual approach: http://www.opserver.de/ubb7/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=314648#Post314648

Btw I received mail from Guardian with permission to use his material in the package so now I'm waiting only on SirCamaris & Bug:) ..but if I don't get their reply in a following few days I will pack/upload the zip without their levels & update it when/if I receive their permissions.

///////////////////////////////////////////
Guardian





///////////////////////////////////////////

@Ratchet
Sure, I will be more then happy to give you any information on my Blender/3DGS lightmapping routine, but beware that I'm using 2.46 version:) If you want to send me pm, send it to this profile (Pavle) because I decided not to use Ganderoleg profile anymore:)

Any news of this great project ? I hope it could be selled in 2012 ?

Thanx for checking out, there are some good news about the JJ development:)

As some may know I have paused my work on the J,J&BUM because of my old project Skulls which is almost done but, about three months ago, Jared De Santis (SirCamaris) rejoined the team & started working on a Sewer chapter drive-through level. He's work is very good & as a leveler he is very fast & precise:







Also we are testing out the additional character modeler, Željko Radulovic, and we are very pleased with his work so far. Here are some preliminary shots of his Dragon Warrior:







In about a week we will make a real news update with lots of screens & a small video.

Great news
I like the car and it's shaders.
(I presume water is just a placeholder , it don't match a lot with other textures and lightening).

I'll wait for the new video

Is the project really abandonned ?
It was such great start and very promising ...
Well i hope to see some new on this great game

No, the project is not abandoned but unfortunately it’s placed on ice until we consolidate. J,J,&BUM turned out to be a much bigger project then I originally expected. However when we started there was 8 people involved only in the art segment, now the situation is very different:) Anyway after a very, veery long time I have finally managed to complete 99% of my SkullS game, so I decide to make time & publish the early concept-levels of the Untitled Platformer that I announced a long, loong time ago:) Hope someone will find them interesting. I also added my rework for Masters of the Universe fan-fiction game that I was planning on developing & failed to find the time for.

http://www.digitaldungeonteam.com/fajlovi/JJBUM/ArtistCorner_UntitledPlatformer_Pack.zip

Enjoy:)

J,J,&BUM turned out to be a much bigger project then I originally expected.

I have some advice i follow myself , specially for indies and lonewolves :
Keep the game little and simple first

Anyway cool new, i hope this platform game will land on Steam or Desura playform

Don't let down such great wuality work

No new, is this project abandonned ?
I know this is what happens in open project with different team members, each having his own motivations that can let down the project.

That's somewhat sad, caus it had lot of potential for a successfull indie game.
But it's like that, when motivation goes somewhere else, that's hard to come back !

There was never any real teamwork in this project. Certain people took over and blocked input. Also the type of game was probably to complex. Some sort of casual game might of worked better.

Anyway, it might be nice to hear from George and other team members, if any are left, for their opinions, or maybe this thread should just be closed. And all remaining resources released.

No offence meant to anyone, I'm disappointed too.

Guardian Untitled Platformer team member.

Also the type of game was probably to complex

Humm ... well it was a simple platformer ...

But i think the team just have lived what is the real world of game making ... a big nig amount of work ...

Yes, one way to achieve a working game, can be to go with retro or cartoon.simplified graphics ...
simpler gameplay, smaller levels etc ...

Too bad the video of the game just let supposed some great quality one, that could have goen to Steam GreenLight ...

The another point, is like i said the motivation, you are always very motivated at beginning and what arrives is just the lack of motivation sometimes.

Well like i have read on some old AUM magazines interviews some clever and bi gadvice for indie lonewolf :
KEEP IT SMALL FIRST

If the team had kept smaller and less complex levels, simpler gameplay with one character, simpler graphics, the game could be completed.

Yes it was perhaps too comple, and choosing another game type could have been a better solution perhaps , like some MonkeyBall style game, you make simple but challenging levels and jut put a ball on them.

Well too bad for such great promising game.

Starting with a small project would have been a good plan; sadly, I was one of the very few team members that shared this vision. We started with a team of about 10 people, but most of them left after a few weeks or months. Actually, from what I know, Pavle was the only person trying to keep the things in motion.

He has created several great looking levels for the game, but then we had to pause the project because he had to finish his own game. That's all I know and I can share for now.

Hello to all, I am happy to see that this corner is still up & running, or better walking slow as it may be:) Unfortunately because of my previous projects, newly started conventional job & many other circumstances the project had to be paused but it was never abandoned, at least not by Ivan & me. As far as I know George never told that he is leaving the project & we also had SirCamaris doing the Sewer drive-through level. The main programmers, Superku & RedPhoenix, did enough code to take the game to 80% of the development and never told that they are not interested to see this game finalized. The game so far has 10 working levels & 2 drive-through levels that are still in 70% done state but the entire code is functional & working great.

The project did start a bit big but we also had a big team in those days:) George was rational & always wanted to restrict the art & program concept to a smaller size but the art team had a vote from full 3D game to full 2D game & voted for 3D semi-realistic concept that was originally proposed by Bug & me. At that time we had no reason to worry because we had 8 people in the art team:) Unfortunately things begun to go bad once the gameplay scathes had to be done. They took too much time & people were getting less and less motivated because things were not progressing. Once we finished the gameplay scathes for just one chapter we lost half of the art team. Then the other problems related to the complexity & functionality of the levels, shaders, models, animations & gameplay emerged and things got from bad to worse.

The thing is that we have a good & functional code & finished levels are in nice quality but the project can’t move at any normal speed until we find more people for the art segment. Game is, however, moving in baby-steps & I am sure there will be some further progress in the future.

. Then the other problems related to the complexity & functionality of the levels, shaders, models, animations & gameplay emerged and things got from bad to worse.


that's the main problem, like said on lot of AUM interviews : start small and simple !

Perhaps, lot more simpler gameplay would have been better.
Two characters to control with puzzle this complicates thigns.

Some simple jump/run and fight game with simple Door/buttons gameplay would have been best ?
With power ups, bnus, etc ... would have been programmed faster ...

For workflow, i understand the point of view as a 3DGS user also ! For shaders perhaps some simple cartoon shader could have been ok ? And some other shaders for special things ?

I've seen lightmapping Blender import video, but i abandonned with 3DGS caus i didn't understood why it didn't work and that's really tedious task , and a big lacking feature on
3DGS to don't have easy and direct lightmap import

---------

For the art segment, it's some eternal problem, specially when each people target to make it's own game.

You could post screenshot of your game on Polycount, Game artisans and tell you seek medium skilled level artists ?

The project is paused,godo news ... but be carefull ...
years are passing through since it started ... one or more two years and you'll be forced to look at reality ...

I hope not indeed, and hope it wil reborn.