[LightFrog] Lighting System - Demo

Hi,

I´m working on a lighting pipeline for A7 I called LightFrog.
I want to give you a first idea of what I´m workin´ on.



The goal is to create a pipeline supporting the most important techniques for todays game lighting.
This includes basic lightsources types and materials as well as shadow mapping.



I´ll also implement pp-effects like bloom, blur, SSAO and color grading stuff like 'bleach bypass':



There is currently just one material for standard bumpmapping.
This first Demo is not thought to give you content which can already be implemented in your projects but it´s more a test to see how far everything works now.
Some problems are known like shadow issues when using small screen resolutions but compare with the pics above and see whether you can find some strange artifacts when running the demo on your systems.

Get the demo from HERE

Also let me know how fast it runs.


regards,


EDIT1: should you get an "error in effect" message try to put the D3DCompiler_42.dll from your GS folder into the bin folder of the demo.
There is a bug which causes problem with the auto switch to a fallback pipeline for computer systems which doenst support MRTs.
This will be fixed in the next version.

Talk to JCL,
Acknex needs serious lightning, and your examples are just WOW.

Wow, really really nice. Looks soo great Can't find the right words


I get 30-50 fps(at max display res, running at 50 Hz) - and it is looking so great

Especially cause i need a good spotlight XD


(btw: You've written F5 - change resolution twice)

edit: my specs:
Intel Pention D @ 2,8 GhZ
nVidia Geforce 9600 GT 512 mb DDR3
3 GB Ram
1920x1080 Full HD Display

Just interested:
Selling or just releasing for community?(or even, as sugested above) integrating for Ax?(x the number of the engine 7/8)

Got one problem:

2 examples wher it says PS2 on the lower left corner(a spotlight and another thing) just dont show up on my ATI HD 4870

EDIT: oh and is it just my weird mind or could this finally compete with UT3 engine?

Great. Have 15 - 30 fps on my laptop (Intel Core 2 Quad 2GHz)

I have steady 60fps at all times. (Intel Core 2 Quad 2.5GHz, ATi Radeon HD3870x2)

Only the example with the 3spotlights+shadowmap+cookie drops to 30fps.
rest is 60+ fps

ATIHD 4870
Dualcore(intel) @ 2.66GHZ

argh, forgot to change the PS version back to 2 after debugging. ATI cards can´t handle shaders where vertex and pixel shader using different versions.
You can scroll down in FX_lightPass_SL.fx and FX_lightPass_PL.fx and change
PixelShader = compile ps_3_0 PS(); to PixelShader = compile ps_2_0 PS(); if you want to see them with ATI cards too.

Omnidirectional Shadowmapping (sm for pointlights) is a fps killer, they are evil. It´s better to avoid them.

LightFrog will be my contribution to the tools-contest, so it´ll be absolutely free.

This is soooooo cool, hummel! good luck!

this goes to the moddb page, people loves this stuff.

edit:

for some reason i can't switch to 1920x1080 at 1600xsomething fps is 40 and 40 straight(not going between 39-40 and stuff constant 40.) card: somewhat OCd in factory 9600gt 1gb.

wrote two simple materials during the last hours, on for simple standard diffuse and specular mapping without any normalmap stuff and one for objectspace normalmapping which can be used when the model is not animated and the texture not tiled. In the most cases where you can use it you get better results (less seams) and it´s faster than tangentspace normalmapping.

Just take a look, simple shading and os-normalmapping:


I forgot to say that I plan to implement my pp-lightshafts too.
Lets see what I can do until August.

Waiting for it, thanks

This looks just awesome!
Runs at steady 60 fps in fullscreen.

Intel i5 2.66Ghz (Quad Core)
6GB RAM
GeForce GTX470

I love it.
I would love it even more if it actually worked on my laptop
The only thing I get is a bunch of error in effect message boxes,
and a lot of white spheres(the skybox renders okay).
My graphics card is a nvidia geforce 9200 GS

anyway: good work

I hope that some of the tools will bring gamestudio games to new heights!

could you give some examples?

EDIT: I found a bug which could been the reason for your problems.
Will be fixed in the next version.

Hummel, you see me deeply impressed, even the point light has shadow map and cookie and runs fast here.

Do you have any experience how it runs in a scene with a couple of lights and more geometry? Maybe we can make a stress test together someday?

@hummel:

I cannot give more information,
most message boxes say: error in effect:
and then no filename is given, and no error
the others give some filenames of your shaders
but It looks like it is a hardware issue.

Your card probably doesnt support MRTs, but I implemented a fallback for this case. The bug I mentioned prevented the automatic switch to this fallback.
We will see...

@Frank: stress test sounds good but first of all I´ll implement some optimizations and other essential features

You should team up with Boh_Havok.

And Slin

That would be an Über-Team.

Wow, this three together, that would be great

this is awesome. all the good stuff is always for A7, my poor, poor A6...lol.

i get a bunch of "error in effect" messages with no further explanation..
gpu: QuadroFX 1700 which should be able to run it, right?

I got the same error; In case my card doesnt support "MRTs", would that have any influence on the quality?

only on speed...but the 'error in effect' messages worry me. They shouldn´t appear even without MRT support.

Tested it on another computer: Error in effect

cpu: intel pentium d
graka: nVidia Geforce 9800 GT
ram: 4 gb

(it's not mine)

fortunately I get the same error on the computer of my parents, expect the bug to be fixed with the next version

EDIT: ok, all you need to do is to put the D3DCompiler_42.dll from your GS folder into the bin folder of the demo. I simply forgot to do that.

Thank you for the fix, it works now.
The Shaders look VERY good, although they are a little slow:

1024 x 768 => 12 - 20 fps
640 x 400 => 18 - 38 fps

Thank you for the demo!

I´m currently working on finishing a first useable version of the manual and I hope I get a LightFrog beta version up tomorrow since there is no much time left until contest´s deadline.
(Which in fact doesn´t mean that I´ll stop working on this after 1st of August. )

...documentation writing is a true motivation killer

Nevertheless, here is a pic which shows a familiar scene but using a glow mask you can simply paint in the alpha channel of the specular-power mask:



Also I´m interested in where you see a higher priority:
-Cascaded Shadow Mapping (outdoor shadows for directional lights like the sun)
or
-postprocessing lightshafts and SSAO

Eventually I´m going to implement both but what would you like to see in the contest entry version for sure ?

regards,

Just one word: Awesome! I hope you win the first prize for this great contribution!

I would like to have Cascade Shadow mapping.

This would complete a whole shadowrender pipeline having indoor and outdoor.
With this abillity, its useable for everyone(not just indoor lightning).
Less limits, more oportunities, better results^^


Greets
Rackscha

I think I would have more fun by implementing the pp-effects first
but let´s see what the others say

Recent A7/8 updates (particularly view_check) make it easier to optimise CSM. Also, nice outdoor shadows have been an expectation in games for a while, but SSAO is much newer and still perhaps considered a luxury.

Finally, CSM is much more scalable than SSAO (that is, you can have decent looking shadows on old systems, and then insanely realistic soft-shadows on newer systems -- I've seen how SSAO can be scalable, but the visual cost means it's often not worth it at all, IMHO).

So CSM's where my vote goes

Great shots, btw.

Jibb

IMO the difference can actually be worth the performance-pics from my about one year old impl:


..but you are probably right, I´ll implement CSM first.

Btw. your tutorial was quite usefull to find a start, Julz

EDIT: muhahahahar, 1111 posts

Oh yes, it adds huge amounts to a scene! What I meant more was that it (afaik) cannot really be scaled down to run well on older systems while still looking nice. Of course, that depends on what is meant by "older system". But CSM gives you more room to play around and provide a variety of options, I believe (although I have no actual experience with SSAO, so I could be completely wrong).
Cheers I look forward to seeing how much you do with it.

Jibb

I am sure you will win the contest. And besides that I think it would be prudent when Conitec works together with you to make this an integrated part of A8, maybe even integrated in the tool-set. So I hope you get some more compensation for it besides winning the contest prize.

-BETA-BETA-BETA-BETA-BETA-BETA-BETA-BETA-BETA-BETA-BETA-BETA-BETA-BETA-BETA-BETA-BETA-BETA-BETA-

eventually it should be in a suitable form now...
hate..writing...documentation!

There is nothing new in the demo itself except the stuff I mentionied a few posts ago.
There is now a first version of the manual which should help to understand the demo´s code which is not very good commented..
well, actually there arn´t any comments at all^^

Tell me if it´s really that unintelligible, if so I´ll focus much more on that for the contest version.

Here we go:
LightFrog BetaV1 [DOWNLOAD]

Fortunately I´m on vacation next week so I think I should be able to finish the basics.

regards

Nice show of effects.

Although i had some errors.
One effect error, and lost pointers when changing resolution.

For Performance Reasons you should only show the
current "Setup" and blend out the others.
Right now my framerate is at around 17 on the 1024er resolution.

(And You forgot the acknex.dll in the zip)

Very nice,

but you cant use ps_2(at least for ati)
you have to use ps_2b

"Too many arithmetic methods(68),
max allowed: 64 for ps_2"


GReets
Rackscha

ok, thx for the information guys.

@Damo: which way did you change the resolution when you got the pointer prob? pressing F5?
Do you know which effect caused the error?
On what system did you run it?

@Rackscha: Which one was the effect with the to high instruction count?

Works well using A7
But doesn´t with A8, without any error message btw...

Year in A8 everything is screewed up^^(skybox is splitup and no visible models, but maybe its cause A8 is at its early stage)..
About the instruction bug:
I had no internet during the last past days and couldnt correct myself.
Accidently used A7.82, with A7.86 everything compiles and runs fine.

But just in case:
-Pointlight lightrange changing not showing
-spotlight angle attentuation changing not showing

BUt keep in mind: with the current version of A7, everything works fine(strange^^)

Greets
Rackscha

Ok, I've updated to the newest A7 Version, and the
effect crash during initialization disappeared.


when changing resolution (F5) I get:
Crash in PP_Remove_all: Sys

To prevent the PP_Remove_all crash try to add a wait(3); before initializing the glow on line 158 in main.c,
I´ll take a closer look in this later.

@Rackscha or anyone: could you please try whether FX_LightPass_SL_VSM_C.fx and FX_LightPass_PL_VSM_C.fx compile with:
VertexShader = compile vs_2_0 VS();
PixelShader = compile ps_2_a PS();
too?
And whether there is a performance difference?
Would be great, besides the Cascaded SM will be finalized today

Okay, i'll give it a try

OH and which effect are these file spart of? or are they included in every lighteffect?

Wont compile

_mtlLightpass_SL_VSM_C

used const register 32
allowed const register 31

Lightpas PS VLM C
seems to work fine.NO visual problems and no errors.

I'll give feedback about performance later(havent watched the FPS..sry^^)

But usual 3.0 is running faster than 2.0/2.a. so as long as the card supports it, it should be available(maybe some flags to set in lightfrog. AT the beginning checking for available shaderversion and setting flags for different behaviour)

GReets
Rackscha

compiling the shaders with the highest possible version would be a good engine feature

thx so far

I get 65+ max: 75 FPS min: 65 FPS


My specs:
Prozessor: Intel Core i7 920 2,67 GHZ
RAM: 6GB DDR3
Graphiccard: ATI HD 5770
Desktop: 1920x1080p

And, nice effects, but when you add this to a game it will lag. The most people haven't a fast Gamer-PC so you must optimize this here a link http://unlimiteddetailtechnology.com/
That aren't Polygons, that are Atome (Points)
And sorry for my English

We already had a thread about it, so it is not as funny as you think -.-

@TheShooter: you were the one who wanted to have 'Crysis-like' graphics. You can´t expect them to run smoothly on every system.

Deutsch: Ja ich weiß, das ist das Problem, ich weiß einfach nicht wie ich das lösen soll
English: Yes I know, this is the problem, I simply do not know like I should solve this.

Ehrlich, geh doch mal realistisch ran: Du hast noch kein spiel was solche Grafiken benötigt, wenn du erstmal ein fertiges spiel hast, kannst du dir immer noch grafische effekte ausdenken und diese hinzufügen.

Und es ist einfach nicht möglich Crysis grafiken auf jedem rechner laufen zu lassen, sonst hätten die Crytek leute das sicher gemacht...

@Rei_Ayanami:
Wobei Crysis im vergleich zur GRafik, oft eine besere Perfromance lieferte als Aktuelle titel
(badcompany*hust*)

ja, aber es läuft trotzdem nicht mit allen effekten (hahaha) auf allen computern...

NIchts läuft auf alen computern, hab ich ja auch nicht behauptet^^, ging nur um die relation

CSM (3 cascades, cascade resolution 1024x1024):



(ignore the ugly terrain shading, had no time to work it out better)

here we go: LightFrog v1.0 (contest entry version)

regards,

Thy are looking awesome.
Have to try them out^^

Demostuff.c

syntax error(running A7.86.2)Line 2

edit:ah okay theres a compiled veriosn

just copy/paste the LightFrog folder into the demo folder, then you can compile the main.c

ah..yes, should have thought about that^^.

Anyway:
Looks really good.

I'm trying to get this to work on A8.
Fantastic work by the way!
I have found the 2 problems that seem to mess it up.

1. the sky cube gets messed up with "LF_SkyCube_init(_eSkyCube);" in the 'main' not sure what it's supposed to do though. if commented out the cube texture lines up

2. the models all dissapear with the "LF_LIGHT_create_DL" line in "DemoStuff1_create()" I commented that out and the line in the while loop that points back to it and seem to have an almost working beta.

Take a look at these screenshots running A8 trial version.
right and bottom ones show that it is working... mostly
top left shows that the sky will work with the lines commented, but it also show what I assume is a problem with the create_DL code since it shows odd black spheres as ligh areas. These do show up a lot more in a daytime skycube.
Image full res

I tried doing the same with the release demo, but I think it was the same.
Any ideas?



p.s. anybody working on this make sure you have reduced all the textures to 128px width, it really helps with load times while you're woring on debugging and testing. just make sure you back up the high res files first

I have some problems with the demo from the resources There is no shadows at all! Everything is dark Only in first demo, when I play with zoom and turn around the examples, shadows appears, but they move with camera

@Nicholas: I still didnt adapt it to A8, does it work with A7 correctly?

@3run: hardware specifications?

Videocard: RADEON X1650 256 MB
RAM: 1024 MB
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual

From what I can tell it is pretty close to working with A8.
I ran the demo and it worked fine directly from the exe file not problem.
Nice and smooth too, but I am running a 2.4 quad phenom with ATI 5800 series that'll be able to run Final Fantasy XIV, so the gamestudio engine shouldn't overtax that.... hopefully. Still need to check the frame rate without it capped.
If this one won't be ready for A8 for a while, does anyone have a link to the older files that let you add shaders to WED blocks.
I'm gonna try to build my files and import them in the FBX then add textures with bumpmap shaders etc. I knew there was a way to add shaders to level geometry, but can't find it.

Nicholas, take a look at the WED tutorial, avaliable in GS download page, there explains how to apply shaders to blocks with normal mapping

theshooter, its widely known that pointclouds arent fast enough yet for realtime use in a practical game. And yes most pc games released now have at least some of the features active in them that are implemented here.

After creating the scene with the new Dexsoft Scifi-models I´m going to to make some experiments with different lighting pipeline variations to find out whether there is a better one I could use for LF. Then I´ve to restructure my code a bit and after that I´ll add the A8 support. That´s the plan.. at least.

Why do I get that strange lags any way? My videocard is old as hell it may be, doesn't support something?

That´s probably the prob but actually it should render the sceenes with simple lights and without visual errors since I added fallbacks..but I was never able to try out whether they work correctly on hardware which really supports no ps3/MRTs/fp RTs or whatever. Perhaps we can make some test as soon as I´ve restructured the code.

Some how, I never was able to get any of your projects working on this PC, remember your Light Shafts, they didn't work too. But the strangest thing for me is, that I could run it (as well as this LightFrog demo) on my old laptop, with integrated videocard, witch is 10 times slower than my PCs videocard It works great but with 5-20 FPS. Have no idea why, but I hope that you'll figer out with this soon, cause your projects are just great, and I want to see them with hight FPS I wish you the best luck. And some screens from DEMO1, to show you my problem:

I am bit confused...

Is it out now? Or when can we use it?

Yes, there was a contest with it and you can download from here http://www.opserver.de/coni_users/web_users/pirvu/au/demo/zips/lightfrog.zip

still not compatible with A8..had no motivation to fix that in the last time

anyway, is there someone who tried to use it with A7 in a self-made level?

Ahr... Sorry, I totally missed the release..

I thought you only made that demo level, and no source code release...

I am really interested to use Lightfrog in my game, especially because of the nice flashlights (with shadow). I will try to implent it, and will tell you about problems

edit: And could you please not include the demo in the uploads from now on? (slow internet...)

edit2: Damn, I cannot use it because LF uses skill1-50 and that would be a complete rewrite of my game...

And it does not work with blocks ...

I see..would be probably better to use only one entity skill to save a pointer to some kind of skill container in which I could save the LF related stuff.

dude, did you find way to fix the bug I got?

This is simply amazing. IMO this should be integrated directly into the lighting engine.

yeah, but then, conitec must change the system requirements

By the way, I just made a test with my new System and demo1:

MinFPS: 140

System in Sig.

Holy crap.... Hummel, nice piece of work!
I'm working on a new project that is 60 square miles.
The Island is 45 miles long and is "Isle Royale" a National Park located in Lake Superior.
I would love to put you system to a major test.

I imagine I could use the same features that I use with my multi terains such as terrain lod and cashing
as I see that there many verticies to allow the wave action.
I believe that I could get it to work but I assume the terrain edges might be problematic.

I get 90 fps looking out to sea and 35 fps with the full island across the whole screen.
The system I am testing it with is an old Sony Vios with Windows XP,
Intel Penium (R)D CPU 300GHz and 2.0 GB of Ram with a new GeForce 9800 GTX+

I do notice that the tree palms look very strange under low light conditions.
I really appreciate your project and your work. Please update me when you can...
When might it become available?
Thanks for your efforts...

Hi Hummel,
leider bekomme ich ein Error, wenn ich Lightfrog in mein Projekt eibinden möchte. Ich binde es folgenermaßen ein:


Die Errormessage ist folgene:
Error in 'LightFrog/scripts\lf_main.c' line 109;
'PP_newMtl' undeclared identifier
< mtlDeferredLightingPP=PP_newMtl("ppFX_DeferredLighting.fx",bRT_Color,vwRenderLights-
<bmap,bRT_NormalBuffer,NULL);
>
...0.861 sec
Error compiling CONTACT.C
Error E355: Startup failure -any key to abort

Woran kann das denn liegen???

"'PP_newMtl' undeclared identifier"->sieht so aus als hättest du vergessen iwelchen LF Code ins Projektverzeichnis zu kopieren.
Unabhängig davon kannst du keine Stencil Schatten verwenden wenn du LF nutzt.
Mit A8 läufts im übrigen sowieso nicht korrekt.

I offered jcl to continue with LF development one or two months ago but he wasn´t interested in paying me more than two months for work on A8 graphic-extensions anyway. Thats why I continue with my community service mext year first and than we will see. Until than I don´t promise make it workable for A8 since I´ve absolutely no motivation. Sry guys.
If someone thinks he can motivate me somehow, send me a PM.

I've sent you a motivational PM

lol, tried?

Will you do a A8 version? It would be awesome

I absolutely dont undertsnad why JCL was interested in paying for more than 2 month. I mean: THIS plugin could push 3DGamestudio with a solid Lightning implimentation.

I would be very happy to see this for A8.
My Bombermanclone could really use it(mh..explosions with nice dynamic shadows^^)

Ps: Motivation Mail on its way

Greets
Rackscha

Please do an A8 version of it. It would be a revolution in graphics for gamestudio.

What about making a demo indoor and outdoor as big as that of Sphere from Matt AufderHeide.
I can say for my part that I don't trust any shader compilation before I see a big level that runs smooth and fast and that contains almost every common situation of plattformer or fps shooter levels, and a tutorial that shows me how to implement it in my game.
I wasted too much time with such things.

The Sphere demos werent bigger than mine. As I remember right the indoor demo has had 3 dynamic lights with shadows. My one has 7 and additional simple lights.
The outdoor demo wasnt more than a terrain with a bit vegetation and a simple water shader. My one consits of the sponza palace and a lot pillars placed on a terrain (simple multitex) with some simple lights and cascaded shadowmapping.

Eventually Sphere was a commercial solution, LF is free.

I dont plan to extend LF anymore since it lags in several aspects.
If it isnt much to tweak I will add the A8 support in about 2 months.
Eventually LF has not enough materials/effects to be a suitable shader pipeline for a bigger project.

Sorry, I missed actually the demo with the terrain , because I hadn't a graphic card with shader 3.0 that time.(EDIT: or I forgot that I'd seen it, when I had a look at it later, because it is a night scenery?. [BTW: What a great atmosphere for a Thief-like game! You could make a puzzle game, where the thief has always to stay in the shadow, and for that he has to wait for the moon wandering over the sky to use certain shadows in certain edges to get his way from shadow to shadow.])
My thoughts were about selling LF for A8 commercially, because JCL didn't want to pay you for adapting it to A8, but I somehow forgot about telling this in my post. Sorry.

Yeah, I guess alot of people would pay for a good, read-to-use shader pipeline...

Yeah ( I too )

Hey, I'm still interested on an A8 Version of LightFrog. Pleeeezeee, I will sent you a thousand of motivation pm's, if I have to.

Send him thousands of motivation dollars if you are really interested.

i dont think you quite understand what a "motivational" email is

What is a motivation emal in your opinion?

Send him money.

Or tits if you have some. But I agree, money would be the better choice.

Send him tits? I dont know if he would like that...

JCL should send him some money

There are mainly two reasons why I´ll not continue working on LightFrog:
- I´m working on an other project, also I´ve no motivation to work on graphics stuff only for the moment
- LF´s code base is quite a mess, also there is a lot of stuff which can be done much better (which means that I would rather start to write a completely new system)

Besides this, there is still ShadeC. What about that?

maybe you could contribute parts of lightfrog to shade-c?

Hey Hummel, any news on LightFrog? The alpha demo download link on slindev is dead, I'd love to look into your code!

There is a lightfrog demo in acknex unlimited.

Hey that's sad but your first reason is very very comprehensible!

Does the demo in Acknex Unlimited contain the last release? Then I'd take a look at these code files.

I just have a question, you made a hint in the manual that it could be possible for us to add our own materials to the system, I am trying to figure out how to do a glass texture, I have tried the _mtlC_Standard_t to try to get a semi transparent look to the glass, but to no effect...I was wondering if someone could point me the right direction to do this, either add my own glass shader to this or the way to work with it as is...

Expanding a deferred shading pipeline for alpha transparency support is a rather difficult task. You need good knowledge about the shading system and shaders in general.

I have the basic understanding of how shaders work, and have been reading the system on the other hand...that's a different story. I have been reading through your code trying to get a handle on it....so far no luck.....(Right now I am wishing I was some what rich, or had something you wanted to make it worth your while to add a few choice materials to this lol)

I know this thread is a little bit old, but is there already something new?

I think it was made for A7. you can check Shade-C Evo as a newer package for A8, you can find it on Github.

Oh, thank you this helpful hint. xD
I will study it detailed.

So, Shade-C is a nice Shader-Collection with SSAO, MLAA, ... .

But I've compared the shadows of both versions (LightFrog vs. Shade-C) and I saw the shadows of LF are more detailed than SC.
Shade-C has only a modified version of PSSM, where I can see the pixeled shadow-map if I move the camera.
-> By the way, some bugs where found.

And It's to complicated for me to combine them. So I think the better way is to wait, that the experts bring a better version of their shaders.

I think Hummel left Gamestudio development for about a year now? Afaik he does not use Gamestudio anymore and never really had plans for further developing LightFrog.
Also lightfrog is deadly imperformant as it uses simple shadow mapping with 6 views per shadow map (image your game takes about 6 times additional render time PER light)
Try to adapt Shade-C for your needs or just even try to understand shader programming. It isn't really hard, just the fine tuning is work.

@you two^

"Also lightfrog is deadly imperformant as it uses simple shadow mapping with 6 views per shadow map (image your game takes about 6 times additional render time PER light)"

yes, yes and no.
It is slow and it does use 6 views for shadowmapped pointlights but even the newest engines use this approach because it's simple, fast (through clever culling and similar stuff), easy to blur, etc.

With an engine like acknex, however, performance is pretty bad due to the slow-as-fuck rendering and rather small freedom for optimizations.

If you think 6 views are too much you could use dual paraboloid shadow mapping (2 sm. views) but this results in badly distributed pixel density and higher performance cost because of culling reasons.

nearly offtopic: I'm always sucking with using more views (for e.g. shadowmapping+blurring, water reflection/refraction/depth), performance goes down rapidly in 3gds if there are many entities, especially in case of dynamic entities.... simple graphics is very fast but some other engines seem to have more optimized renderer.