GTA: Streatham Hill

This is a project i have been working on for nearly two years, it is a Grand Theft Auto clone. I am very busy so i don't get usually more than 1 day a week to work on it. This is the first game i have created so i am just learning as i go. The level is made up entirely of blocks.

Problems im currently having is framerate, when looking east or west or at the edge of the map i get upto 25fps, but when i look south it goes down to 4fps, if you look at the picture of the map i have attached you will understand. I have an idea that it is the entities because i have hundreads; cars, people, birds and trees. is there anyway to stop them from being displayed or paused when the player is not close?


Anyway i have attached some pictures and a link to my youtube page. i want to release a demo by next month but i am terrible at code so if theres anyone who is good at C-script and intrested please let me know.

Thanks for looking

Youtube page: My videos

very nice

The models are a bit low poly for my taste ...


I especially like the people, but the hands(look at the girl as an example) are really horrible^^

i would be careful using logos of companies or trademarks
i dont know if its allowed (especially the pizza-hut logo)
you should check this to avoid legal problems
even GTA has fictional companies like "the well stacked pizza co."

but good work
may your city growing

Wow, very good work!

The charakter`s animations are not so good. But Im sure you will fix this.
And Tempelbauer is right it can be very dangerous to use trademarks. I`ve seen Pizza Hut and MC Donalds better you change it. You can for example leant names in a funny way.

Keep up this good work!

Wow, it is huge!
Do you already have cut scenes?
It looks like at the last screen.

Relating the frames per second:
You need a LOD system, LOD = level of detail, don't know whether you already had a look into it.
For the LOD system, you need to split your town into level pieces that you put together in a main level, means you place the level parts like you do with models in one level. You need several levels/levelparts(.wmb). One with the whole details included, one with less, and one without nay details.
to reduce the amount of entities by switching them of, if they are in the distance, you can stop their action relating their LOD.

Have a look into the manual at LOD, d3d_lodfactor, level of detail...

A different idea is this:
you could build each street separately as wmb, put them into one level and then test whether an entity is in the same street like the camera, and if they are switch their action on, if not switch them off. Something like this. I hope you get the idea.

wow this is amazing! good work

Yeah : LOD is the rule , several LOD !
And some objects should only be displayed when you are really near like tress etc ...
And your should write your own Town management engine.

Search on google to see how works GTA !
Keep it up.

Like PizzaTut or Mc Doogles

Yeah or "Mc Wambo" then you can turn at the sign the "M" into a "W"

wow men two thumbs up!

Very ambitious work,
looks really nice. I can see the effort you put into that.

But you use some technically bad solutions.

Dont use WED Blocks for it, as you cant not use an effective LOD then.
Rather try to convert the buildings to models.
Or try around with map entities.
This way you can build your custom LOD.

The movement of the character and cars need a better collision handeling.
You should put much more effort into the character movement
procedures.
Dont use a second view for the map. (as far as I saw in the
video) This uses up extra FPS.


Nevertheless, it has a lot of athmosphere already!
I like the simulation of a populated city with traffic and passents.

(only the cars drive on the wrong side)

Legal: Right now you use a lot of brands (cars, shops etc)
So dont try to sell this without really checking for
the legal limitations. Else you can easily get in deep trouble.

umm.. looks good, just a few ques? why are you doing this? why is it called GTA? do you just wanna REMAKE gta? or you want to make your own gta styled game? a

@Damocles_ - We drive on the left hand side in England, lol.

It looks very nice, but I do have to agree with others that you should be careful about which brands you are putting into your game.

Keep up the good work.

Pretty sweet man.

Thanks for the comments, i didn't even think about copyright problems, i better change some of these textures!

This looks like a lot of work, very good!

Regarding FPS: LOD will help for a small scene but it will not help to render a complete city. You need some very good scene management, some very fast and intelligent culling/occlusion. But even this will not help completely. For larger levels with much detail some background loading and unloading is needed in a several thread to not slow rendering down.

wow really nice work!! But do not call this great game "GTA", use an own name!:D

Thanks, yep im gonna change the name once i think of a good one

Thats what I mean, the wrong side

-----

The problem with brand lables is, that you use other peoples
interlectual property.
But: it could be possible to ask a company, that
you can use their logo if they agree. Since you basically do free
advertisement then.
For some local shops it should be possible to ask for allowance.
(if thats not too much work)

But nailing a commoner with a car into the Pizza Hut shop might
be objective for Pizza Hut...

you may want to build areas of this as parts and save them as Map Entities, this way you can load and unload areas from memory based distance from player, play with mipmapping also and DONT use blocks for details, just for the rough level layout

Oh ok, i will try that, thanks for your help

i think you need to work on your models, try editing it in a 3d software(3D studio max would be great) and import it to med as assets for your game.

I think it's because your trying to imitate GTA that's why you want it to look like a real GTA game compromising your game visuals but besides that, the game is freaking awesome. I was so amazed when I saw the entire level like a small city...gees men your a legend!

OMG!!! That is sooooo great.

the game is good, but the hands on the woman are terrible.

is that last image a cut-scene? it looks like it.


the project is very ambitious, especially for a first project!

i started by making small apps, and using all of the highly- commented scripts i could find! (AUM)

big project but it has so many elements that he can just work on minor aspects of it so may be the same as starting small, except whatever he codes is useable ingame

When demo is coming?

I want to do one within the next few weeks, but just as a test to see how it runs on diffrent computers, but as far as coding it is about 15% complete.

Looks very good.

Just one thing I want to comment on - The cars speed is waaaaaaaaaaaay to slow.

Keep it up, its going good!

Hey everyone my demo is now up, it is VERY BUGGY, but it's just a release to show how far iv'e got.

Download link: http://anthonystaines.com/games.htm


Enjoy

(Please do not use the models as i do not own them)

umm... you do know they WILL send you a Cease-and-Desist letter if this gets too big, if you really wanna finish this, dude, change the name, there are so many titles for a game of this size... also get some more programmers, a game like this needs more programmers than artists [kinda] because its driven by functionality rather than art.. coders to code small elements, then you simply compile it all to one game, am interested to see where you go with this, gonna check demo, expect crits after

and btw, NOONE likes an installer for demo games

to get more frames:

use LOD
set all textures on not visible surfaces to NONE
limit the clip range
shut off all actions when not within clip range or on screen
make sure your code is well written. code can take alot...

use F11 ingame to open the info panel and see what takes so many frames. post a picture of that maybe

camera spins out of control for me, couldnt do anything

You really need to work on the Framerate issue, use the tips from sPIKe.

It cant be that something with those bad graphics runs like GTA IV on 1920x1080 at full details on a Voodoo Graphics card.

EDIT 1: Also, what scale have you built this game in?! I started thegame with the highroad.wdl in an effort to get to the console and adjust a few setting to get a bit better performance, but even at camera.clip_far = 10000 i can barely see further than the player character. You did something wrong here, really wrong.

EDIT 2: I'm not saying this to make you feel bad. But perhaps you should really start with something smaller. Or if you really insist in doing this project: I recommend starting again from scratch, this time, with performance in mind.

Hi it looks good but like the others said it is really slow i think that u looped the mp3 file it makes your game that slow
WFG :)Progger

Thanks for all your comments.

I know the performance is very bad, i don't think i can use LOD because im using blocks not models for the level if you look at the screenshots ive linked at the bottom you'll see the game is made up of hundreds of block which is proberly the cause of the low framerate.

@darkinferno i think the camera spinning is cause when you have a controller plugged in, it happens to me when i have my xbox360 controller in.

I defo need help with the code im hopeless at it i made the scripts open so hopefuly some people from the forum can look at my scripts and add or edit it to make it better. I will definetly change the name very soon just still thinking of a good name.

Debug1
Debug2
Debug3

about 1650 running functions...dude, that´s bad.
35ms for geometry, 65ms for code..you definetly have to reduce the count of simultaneously running funcs!

no the reason your game is so slow is another...



this is by far the most ridiculous comment ive read in a while...

first, looping an mp3 does not make a game slower. just wont happen. second: use ogg...

then, your game is so slow because you scaled it so high it needs a draw distance thats insane.
seriously. your player character is around 5000 quants big. seriously.
scale everything down. and i mean MAKE it smaller, not just scale with code, for this is slow aswell.

a player character needs to be 55-60 quants in size. thats a HUNDRETH of what you are doing here.

start up wed, make a CUBE SMALL and this is the maximum height your player character should have. size everything down according to that size.
use WED to size down the level and MED to size down the models.

you CAN use LOD, just for the models alone. trees, cars, people can all ahve LOD and you MUST use it.

then, cut back the draw distance to LESS than 10 000.

rewrite your code, so that everything thats not needed outside of clip_far is on wait.

apply the NONE flag to every single texture that can never be seen by the player. make sure your level is block shaped. that is of more importance than you might think. it should not look the way it does now. make blocks with rendering flag none outside of your buildings, below the ground to make sur everything is nicely and clean.

center your level to the level origin, that is xyz = 0. the closer to 0 the better.

i know thats alot of work, but its the only way to actually do anything with this project. heck, resizing the level and the models can be done within a day. rebuilding and retexturing another day.
LOD steps three days. re-coding just to adapt the changes 2 days.

heck, all in all, if you keep on it you have the same game in two weeks running ten times as fast.

ill even be so kind to resize the level for you and adapt it to the changes i said if you send me the WMP.
yes, i am THAT nice of a person. i will also resize your player model so that it fits within the new level and you have something to check up while resizing your old models.

just send the WMP file ALONE, without textures models or anything, just the WMP file and the player model to my e-mail adress (t.koessler (at) gmx . at) and ill do this for you within a day. all you have to do is retexture it afterwards.
if that isnt a deal, i dont know what to do for you anymore...

Oh ok, i should be able to do that, thanks for the suggestions really appriciate it (you might have just saved my game :))
Thanks

New BETA available for download http://www.anthonystaines.com/games.htm

I tried most of the ideas that you guys have given but it didn't make it any faster so to play this game you must have a fast CPU and at least 1GB RAM

Enjoy

It would have been even more awesome not to load the demo onto a 56k server...

dude oh stop looking, the ONLY reason your game is so horribly slow is because you have WAYYYYYYYYYYYY to much functions running, i dont even know how you managed to do that ? did you like place ALL models in WED ? or created ALL the models in the world ? a game like this is about creating object based on distance, even in GTA you can see when cars and pedestrians fade in after being spawned

Your 100% right darkinferno when i disable the AI in the game i get 60fps but it makes the cars go crazy when the game is too fast and if i just enable the cars that are near the player then the cars just collide with the ones that are disabled off screen.

This Project is too big for you, trust me. Start with something smaller.

not to be too harsch, but you didnt learn anything from all the comments we gave you almost a year ago.

you use template code

you use wdl files

you use enormously huge levels. seriously you have ONE map for the entire game and it has 130 megabytes. what the deuce?

your code is a mess. i cant code and even I see that

you still use copyrighted textures

your textures are low res and ugly

so are your models

the game does not run on many systems. on mine, the camera flips around like a pot smoking crack whore on LSD

the entire project is way too large for a first project

what exactly have you done the last 300 days with this? except adding a quest that is?

sorry if this sounds harsh. but truth is, no matter what you do with that, it will fail. it fails as an idea, it fails on paper and it fails in execution.

you want to be a game designer?
then watch ALL videos of extra credits on the escapist magazine and listen to those people, they know what they are talking about. they are 100% right. after you did that, look at your project again and if you STILL believe its a good idea sell your gamestudio licence...

hey spike could you give me a link to those videos? they sound interesting:

and @Truth: dont cancel your project, but restart it, break it down into pieces:

first make a good movement code and weapon system, get that to run fine regardless of fps

create your cars project, get that to run fine also regardless of fps

even though some say your level is too big, i dont think this is your slow down, learn to manage many entities from one function

a game like this is done by finishing all the elements seperately and then putting them together, atleast thats how i'd do it ...

and seriously, GET RID OF THE GRAND THEFT AUTO TITLE !!! name it goodStealCar for all i care, just change the name

some words for you:
OMG!!!
GRAVITY!!!
PIGONS, WHICH AREN'T FLYING AT A WALL!!!
MIPMAPPING!!!
NOT COPIRIGHT TEXTURES!!!
GRAFICS!!!
....
Why does this game needs for this graphics and this buggy script so much recurses????
Sorry for being harsch!
start with something smaller...
xxxxxxx

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits

start with the last video on page 3, then second to last, ect...
i reccomend that to every aspiring game designer...

ill try to leave positive feedback.
i could not actually get the game to work but from what i read and understand of your project you have accomplished a lot and learned a lot in the process. my first "game" took me a year to make. i used the templates and large levels. but at some point i realized it was not going to work. but now that i have moved on and focused on programming i have made a bunch of small games all of which are better then my first large game.

Take what you have learned and start over.
sure focus on a GTA style game. maybe first make a third person shooter. then make a racing game. and then put them together and make this game again 10 times better. the worst thing you can do at this point is give up.

good luck to you.

GTA games in indie market are rare, perhaps don't exist.

Some basic things to consider :
- Don't use BSP for the level , only models and LOD for all

- Use a level cutted in some sort of squarre tiles you'll only display nearest tiles, and with very low LOD the others

- Use paths for random people on streets and for cars ;You'll need a solid code that manages all that random stuff and they behave between each others and with you and AI: i think it's the most difficult part

- You don't have Rockstar engineers to make such game like GTA so perhaps make things lot more simple. people following simple

- LOD : use LOD on all objects and characters (the most LOD you have the best caus you can gain polygons between LOD A and LOD B)
- Mip Mapping caus drawing precise texturs for all objects even the far objects will ask too much power !

- LOD management for AI vehicles paths : for several ennemies you must puchase each have it's own path management When you are far from them ro don't see them you don't need to calculate

- Impostors ?

- Same thing for people not directly on screen just move them without calling animations for their displacements or even call any physics

- Streaming : you load models as you walk to areas

etc ... etc ...

Well you can see that style of game asks for lot of very advanced coding and strategy of visibility and culling !

I think for someone as you that is not a core coder or engineer its' a too much big project, just my opinion !
And alone it looks impossible, even for making all assets : several NPC ,character, items and clothing, cars all that with all LOD !!

All coding ,3D stuff etc ... too much , try to find a team
interested in making that game style : i think you can find some !

Target something lot more little for beginning or another game style than GTA !

Some ideas :
- making third personn level where you shoot zombies ?
- making a racing car where you can go everywhere like Burnout
(without needing to have combat), a level with cars only, no
characters : lot more easy to manage and make indeed !


Why not making a game that would mix theses two modes :
- You roam on car trhought the town to collect missions, buy
items etc ...
- When you enter a zone mission , the game makes a transition ,
and loads an indoor or outdoor level with ennemies and you
are in 3rd person camera for the combat mode
- After finishing or beating a boss the game reload the town
level and you are in car.

Well i stop here it was just my point of view to help you a little in your decision !

@rachet the first 2 points you listed are like
- don't use BSP
- program BSP all over again.

No i'm really wrong indeed once again !!

Yeah BSP can really do it.But i'm not sure the size will be as light as using models ??

New video of features and updates added to my game, Thank you to all that has helped me over the years we have come a LONG way http://youtu.be/50jvr5kyGTA

I'm just glad you actually started to listen

No go work on the movement and driving code!

Big thumbs up for the fps increase! It was also nice how you've added new animations (the getting in the car -animation). You're on the right track.

However I still think you should seriously considering using Pizza Hut, Coca-Cola in this game. I know, and the companies must know, that this is a hobby project but still, IF you happen to have just that one law suit it can take thsi down. The same goes with snoopy too.

your motivation is outstanding. it's beginning to feel like a gta game btw, do you use a second view for the map\radar? replacing it with a drawn map may help to increase the fps

it really does have the gta feel to it, i like that, obvious stuff that still needs work but a very great effort, and of course as mentioned, very impressive perseverence. almost makes me wish it wasnt a game that is never going to be more than a fan game since its based off of a large franchise and will show despicable acts in a real city because if you perservered enough on a game that was original (maybe still a freeroaming shooter, but not gta based) you might be able to attract a decent team to get the graphics on par with something sale worthy, and have assistance smoothing out all the other things that still need to be finished.