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SGT_FW
by Aku_Aku. 05/31/26 11:05
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XTB
by pr0logic. 05/18/26 12:27
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Re: The AI from Half-Life’s SDK
[Re: alibaba]
#421895
04/27/13 13:23
04/27/13 13:23
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
AlbertoT
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
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Intersting article However it seems to confirm that sophisticated AI tecniques : neural networks, genetic algo , reinforcement learning atc are not applicable in real games Common sense still dominates
Last edited by AlbertoT; 04/27/13 13:23.
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Re: The AI from Half-Life’s SDK
[Re: AlbertoT]
#421897
04/27/13 14:22
04/27/13 14:22
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,904
HeelX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,904
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@AlbertoT: The problem with the algorithms you mentioned is that you need lots of training data to get a decent AI. In some cases, like reinforcement learning, it is possible to boost learning by training phases in which the computer plays against himself (followed and preceeded by seesion in which the computer plays against a human being), but this requires more or less that the game is already more or less balanced.
From what I have seen I believe that this is perfectly possible for board games like backgammon and chess; and (team-)sports games, like soccer, icehockey, baseball and tennis.
Though, games tend to be a bit "arcade" like (or in other words: accessible to casual gamers), so virtual characters run faster and jump higher and such. Personal skills play nowadays also a big role in sports games (like in Fifa) and they blast the variables into infinity; I believe that for neural algorithms it is already too hard to capture general strategies and I think it is impossible to capture personalized skills as well (when playing against Real Madrid you try for example to take out Xabi Alonso out of play and treat Christiano Ronald in a different way, compared to your regular soccer team opponent).
Because of these overwhelming set of variables and requirements of the player to a game, tweaking a handcrafted state machine seems to be more convenient to game designers, for which they can try out different things like "lets see how hard the AI is if it can produce Tank Units 50% faster than before" or "lets give the Beast half health points because it is already too hard for the casual gamer". It is for example unclear how Reinforcement Learning encodes the "knowledge" and "experience" in practice and this is a no-go for developing commercial games.
Last edited by HeelX; 04/27/13 14:23.
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Re: The AI from Half-Life’s SDK
[Re: HeelX]
#422014
04/30/13 12:10
04/30/13 12:10
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,608
mk_1

Expert
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Expert
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,608
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Neural networks are nowhere near to what we need in games, at least how most programmers do it. A lot of tutorials on NN talk about simple multilayer perceptron networks, but it's a lot more than that. The biggest difference between NN and the way biological neurons work is, that it's not a simple output function, based on weighted inputs. Neurons have a fire rate (so to speak), a depletion and regeneration time etc. The architecture of the brain uses a lot of feedback to previous layers, providing iterative results. NNs are usually the worse choice compared to f.e. behavior trees, but they are able to adapt to the player. For most games adaption isn't really needed because enemies mostly die after a short time. Beat 'em ups on the other hand already use NNs to adapt to combo patterns of the player. Almost every designer will tell you that it doesn't matter, how smart an enemy is, but how smart he appears to the player. So the best thing you can do is to use the simplest algorithms available that still provide a believable behavior. edit: have a lookt at this review.
Last edited by mk_1; 04/30/13 12:13.
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Re: The AI from Half-Life’s SDK
[Re: mk_1]
#422083
05/01/13 18:51
05/01/13 18:51
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
AlbertoT
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
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Almost every designer will tell you that it doesn't matter, how smart an enemy is, but how smart he appears to the player. So the best thing you can do is to use the simplest algorithms available that still provide a believable behavior.
Definitely true However if advanced AI algo's should lead to even slight more realistic ( human like ) behaviors then some games would for sure implement them The point is that it seems that they dont even work Simple algo's do it better  For example I designed a fuzzy logic algo I did not notice any benefit Ok, I am just an hobbyest programmer I thought Reading the Millington's book I was surprised to learn that actually nobody can distinguih a fuzzy logic algo from a simple Random.Range() command Disappointing
Last edited by AlbertoT; 05/01/13 18:59.
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