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Re: Is 3DGS dying? [Re: sPlKe] #385202
10/14/11 18:44
10/14/11 18:44
Joined: Oct 2006
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AlbertoT Offline
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Originally Posted By: sPlKe
A few weeks ago I instlled Unity3D and tried it. And once again, I had no clue what to do. Unity may be a great tool for programmers or whatever, but for a guy like me it is pretty much useless.


well of course it takes time to get familiar with Unity but it was the same for me when I switched from Blitz3d to 3dgs

Also 3dgs is not a user friendly engine , you dont realize it simply because you are used to 3dgs
The only simple engines as far as programming is concerned are the traditional engines such as Leadwerks

Efficiency is of course an other matter

Unity and 3dgs are natural multitasking engines
this is s great plus

Re: Is 3DGS dying? [Re: AlbertoT] #385205
10/14/11 19:25
10/14/11 19:25
Joined: Apr 2008
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ratchet Offline
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No other engine allow to directly script an entity as simple and fast as 3DGS , this is the main winning point !
No other is so easy to pick up and learn as fast.

The bad points remains the interfaces, and editor that is slow perhaps, and the workflow where we should be able to view all assets and use it / apply them to any model in the scene like Unity.
That's the bad point it lacks better workflow and features like :
- standard shader list applyable to any model in the world editor
- Textures view and some basic standard textures slots when viewing a model in the world editor : Diffuse/Spec/normal/glow
- Terrain editor : the only last "studio" engine that don't have a descent terrain in the world editor ????

But well ... in the future perhaps wink

I have no doubt if it is adapted like it works now to Mobile ,
so we would use the same script system, it will be successfull also !

Re: Is 3DGS dying? [Re: ratchet] #385208
10/14/11 20:11
10/14/11 20:11
Joined: Oct 2006
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AlbertoT Offline
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I suppose that sPIKe was talking about scripting not the editor
Unity editor is good no question ( also 3dgs )
Do you think that 3dgs scripting is user friendly ?
never got those bloody "empty pointer " error msg ?
that's typic of component based engines whereas data exchages among components is an issue
Go through a traditional engine , ex Leadwerks , you can see yourself how clean the code is vs Unity or 3dgs
As I said power or efficiency is another matter

Re: Is 3DGS dying? [Re: ratchet] #385209
10/14/11 20:12
10/14/11 20:12
Joined: Sep 2007
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Toast Offline
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Originally Posted By: ratchet
No other is so easy to pick up and learn as fast.

You really think Lite-C is easy to pick up? I'd prefer Javascript, Lua or something like that over Lite-C any time. When it's about fast learning Lite-C suffers from both it being a sort of more complex language and being a "self-made" language with very limited learning resources...

Re: Is 3DGS dying? [Re: Toast] #385213
10/14/11 20:43
10/14/11 20:43
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ratchet Offline
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I never dig very far in Script and used lot of pre made code !
So perhaps i'm wrong ?

3DGS should do like Unity in a next WED version : Allow custom panels easy programming.
Like that we could find all amazing custom plugin tools you can find with Unity 3D :

2D Toolkit

Visual Scripting

Rage Tools

Easy Raods Tools Video

And theres lot lot more tools ...

For someone wanting some specific task for making a game ,
Spending from 5$ to 99$ depending on complexity and aulity of the tool, if you make money that's a good investment.
And it avoid you to re invent the wheel each time : productivity.
If it existed the Sprite Tool like it exist in Unity, it is so complete i would buy it for sure.

I think A8/A9 future will depend on that for survive.
We could see lot of different tools appera like sprites, terrain etc ...

Perhaps i'm wrong ?

Re: Is 3DGS dying? [Re: ratchet] #385219
10/14/11 21:30
10/14/11 21:30
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AlbertoT Offline
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you are not wrong, simply we are talking about differnt topics
You insist on artworks tools, I speak of gameplay
You admit that your are mainly using templates
well try to code a rather complex gameplay
as Toast said Lite-C is not the best option, javascript or C# or LUA are much better
Aside from that a component based engines such as Unity ( and in my opinion also 3dgs) may be flexible but ease of use is not their strong point
in an other thread someone quoted a gamasutra article
The author was on components side
a member replied that for small / mid size project traditional engines are still the way to go, being more intuitive even though (maybe) less flexible and efficient
I agree with that

Re: Is 3DGS dying? [Re: Toast] #385221
10/14/11 22:17
10/14/11 22:17
Joined: Mar 2006
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WA, Australia
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JibbSmart Offline
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Originally Posted By: Toast
Originally Posted By: ratchet
No other is so easy to pick up and learn as fast.

You really think Lite-C is easy to pick up? I'd prefer Javascript, Lua or something like that over Lite-C any time. When it's about fast learning Lite-C suffers from both it being a sort of more complex language and being a "self-made" language with very limited learning resources...
Any C resource is a Lite-C resource (although the occasional enum and union must be worked around). And as you get experienced in Lite-C it's really easy to pick up straight old-fashioned C, which is fast, rich, and ubiquitous.

I love GS's simplicity. I open up SED, write a few lines of code, and hit "play". I don't have to connect nodes, objects, scripts, or anything. I can write a prototype with no external resources thanks to the built-in primitives (for a simple example, the first working prototype of KarBOOM was a bunch of player-controlled cubes driving around a plane bashing into each other).


Formerly known as JulzMighty.
I made KarBOOM!
Re: Is 3DGS dying? [Re: JibbSmart] #385243
10/15/11 09:12
10/15/11 09:12
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ratchet Offline
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I agree with the fast prototyping !
But i rather would prototype using models.

And that's because you don't use an animated character or a space ship or anything wher you don't have to manage the animations.
Caus when characters are used in the game, you must have the animated characters at some moment to test the animation code and gameplay, and mixing them is a goo bunch of code sêcially if you blend animations.

Well all that depends on the complexity of your game.
The user wantiong terrain, grass, trees in big outdoor and assign standrad shaders just by choosing them on a menu :
I think he will go more to Unity or other engines.

It's also a matter of what productivity you want, fast with ready to go tools (complete terrain editor, grass/trees painting, ready to use camera templates and character controller all that visually) : i already talked about that wink

--------------

One time here i made a demonstration : Ok it just used premade Unity Character and grass, trees, but i assembled a
3rd Peron game with standard commands in a big terrain, with grass, trees, multitexturing in 10 MINUTES starting from Zero!

With A8 i could'nt do it , i know programming C SCript, but it's really far from intuitive :
-Find the right multitexture shader on docs
- Find on what channel you must paint textures and thats' borring and nono accurate as in real time
- Place grass and trees by hand : no tool
- How to manage LOD performance of displayed trees and
- Camera is not visual selection : youi must dig on docs,
and change code to try another camera frown
- No Visual adjustable character controller, you adjust in
real time , no need to change the code each time and
relaunch to test !!!
- No good quality default assets in simple selection list :
Quality terrain textures, normal mapped character , grass,
trees ...

Well for me putting a running level in some 5 or 10 minutes is important caus i can after that concentrate on :
- working in character and ennemies gameplay
- Import and apply shaders to my 3D assets on terrain :
houses, rocks ...
- work on Gui system
etc ....

My goal is productivity, and don't loose time in task that are trivial.
Like UT3 ,if you want to make an FPS game, the basic templates and terrain/World tools are already here for you to
import your textures and 3D models/characters to make a fast test. After that you can change/add code to make new gameplay.

Well it's my personnal point of View, but Unity 3D took the right way by giving tools to game makers, simplifying their life ! Specially with all custom Plugins in the store now laugh

----------

A9 should take Unity example of plugin system to really be boosted: anyone could make custom plugins for the editor coudl it be : Sprite tools, painting tools, positionning tools, terrain tools, river/road tools , any other task tools ...


Last edited by ratchet; 10/15/11 09:17.
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