umm? did i read that right? halo has bad level design? i hope you mean the campaign mode and even if you do mean the campaign, it doesnt matter, the level design suits the gameplay, throw halo style gameplay with halflife2 level design and youre stuck with "wtf".. as its obvious, level design is dependent upon gameplay, i also hate linear games that tell the player what to do, our levels in scion for example are seperated into gameplay zones, we then plan on paper how each zone should interact with neighboring zones and how the different routes to each zone come into play even though i dont see what level design as to do with this topic though and i also dont think the designs should be grouped into just stylized and photorealism, not because i dont want a stylized game doesnt mean i want photorealism, i just want visuals that wont be scorned at

Hm, I think level design has a lot to do with this topic - as its part of the "art" factor.
I never played the first Halo, but based on spike's statement, I'd say he wasnt talking about the level's design in relation to the gameplay, but only in visual terms. So I guess he did never experience the levels viual design as outstanding or stunning.
Referring to darkinfernos last statement, I also dont think there's just stylized and photorealism - just take a look at Mirror's Edge, it is without a doubt very stylized, optically speaking, but in a technical way closer to photorealism than, say, Half Life 2.

i consider halos level design bland because there are a dozen rooms that all look the same. thas nut impressive thats cheap.

also, metrid is year solder than turrican

back to topic. id like to bring up the wind waker here, for i love the art style on that. in fact, this was the game that made me fall in love with toon shading. yeah, i go there.

take the wind waker today. it still holds up nicely in terms of graphical quality because of the style. and now compare it to any other game from 2001. yeah...

you can achieve good visuals with a matching stle even without hard tech. the more real it gets, the harder it is to do. uncanny valley, believability and money are to blame. i find it frustrating that the broad masses have accepted CGI and hand drawn artwork in movies, but still struggle to accept an artstyle in games.

yesterday i witnessed it myself. i was out, having good fun, when i overheard two people talking about games. and then they agreed that theyd never play anything besides PC or PS3 because of the bad graphics and such. then the mentioned modern warfare 2 as the prime example of graphics.
and i hate it when that happens. not that the game is bad, but this mindset just ingores all the amazing art found in non realistic games. and thats basically the target audience for "hardcore" game developers (although i HATE that term).

and as indie, you simply cant reach that, you you aliante those people because you cant reach that quality and you alienate everyone else because the rest is not too fond with brown as a color. lucky us your gameplay sucks or else it would be really frustrating...

Depends on the Customer and Age.

16 year old Boys will not admit to like toon style casual games.

But making a small game, wich is normally rather casual
has to target other customers.
And there a colorful artistic style is the better choice.

My casual game PACHEE sells 80% to women from the US.
And they prefer a different style than boys who play
Tripple-A Warfare shooters.

pure art - Okami:






They used several quite impressive rendering techniques besides of some conventional, f.i. there was a pp-effect wich smeared the outlines of the objects to give the appearence of ink.
The most trees were made with simple sprites but this doesn´t disturb since it fits the style.
Also the gameplay was as innovative as the graphics - simply awesome

Yeah a great great game i played on PS2 !
The characters have very low polygons, but they have lot fo personnality, their own poses and body language !

Visually ,teh simplicity make all things clear, and easy ot distinguish, beautifull shader.
The other big point, is top notch real time gameplay.
And the attributes, powers increase like Zelda games.

Lot of people using A7 could make such game, less time consuming than making precise, photorealistic models and textures.

Another game that is impressive: low polygons, low but very effective textures, and great research on design and colour of textures and environment si a IPhone game: Dungeon Hunter !
Even under houses , objects on groudn it seems to be some shadow on ground (not floating objects)

Even low res textures, or models, all things remain beautifull, caus they don't use very darks textures or atmosphere, and all that fit and mix together very well !
Lot of people should take example on that game , even beginners !

We could crate a design manual based on that game that would
power up lot fo games or people here indeed !!

now were talking. although i dont like okamis graphical style. TOO expressionistic, but still, an impressive design

I find Okami very great !
Anyone could make it in a less "ink" way, only small outline on models !

Lot of people could make such simple 3D game, but it asks lot of
work on design and level design, choose of colors etc ...
But could be done with A7 and it woudl be a succesfull game indeed !

Another very simple design, but very effective :

Iphone game





Reminds me Aaaaaaahaaaaa game made with A7.
Also a simple game, but very entertaining, and effective design and colors even if simple !

Lof of people thata are mainly programmers could be inspired
by how to make great looking things using good colors and textures.

Choosing the right colors and textures is already the job of a good designer, isn't it?