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Re: Unity Indie is... Free? Xbox 360 Support Also Announced
[Re: Why_Do_I_Die]
#296352
10/31/09 06:26
10/31/09 06:26
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia
JibbSmart
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
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Gamestudio could compete with unity just by making a more powerfull game engine and give up on lite-c. Lite-C is a strength. Being a programming language instead of a scripting language, it should be faster than Unity's scripts (although the Unity devers reckon their script (used properly and optimised well) can be as little as 50% slower than a compiled language), and since Lite-C supports just about all traditional C syntax, it is no obstacle to a programmer beginning with the engine whatsoever. A7 is not my first choice beacuse even if you put a lot effort in developing your game won't change the fact the graphics will be kind of poor or the engine will be unoptimised. Hmm... there's a fine line between comparing A7 with another engine and going off-topic talking about A7's capabilities. I would call this particular chunk off-topic simply because it is unsubstantiated. If you want to talk about A7's capabilities in this thread, it should only be done in comparison with Unity, and those comparisons should only be made if they are also backed up by feature comparisons between the two. This isn't some rule I'm pulling out, it's common sense. Similar to you, WDID: It's all well and good to discuss the impact of Unity Indie going free on Gamestudio, but most of your two posts here is paying out A7 without any reason behind it. I'm not going to say you're wrong; I'm just saying no one is going to take a seasoned A7-hater seriously if there's no "this is why I say this" Jibb
Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!
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Re: Unity Indie is... Free? Xbox 360 Support Also Announced
[Re: JibbSmart]
#296355
10/31/09 07:46
10/31/09 07:46
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121 Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
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I think there are 2 groups of customers to consider if you want to sell an affordable game dev technology (like Unity, GS, C4, Torque, Shiva, Leadwerks):
- hobby users - experienced developers with commercial projects
Hobby users want to have fun, want to learn and want to have fast feedback. So they need good tutorials, easy to use tools, fast response (play it while developing it) and they want an easy way to generate the final game. They are interested in already prepared effects, shaders and some model and texture libraries. So they need a good and documented studio. They will not look at technical features like scene-management, lighting-approaches or speed. Often they even dont know some of these concepts. This is what Gamestudio and Unity advertises. This is what FPS maker does perfectly.
Experienced developers will look at features, options to extend the technology, power, speed and available platforms to increase the final success. In the end the project matters. If they want to make a 2d game, then they would use TGB, they would use Wintermute for a 2.5d game and for casual 3d games on different platforms they would prefer Unity, Shiva or Torque3d. For a bigger project with a team, bigger game worlds and scene management they use C4.
What about Gamestudio? It is very similar to Unity, it is designed to be a good value for beginners and pro users. To satisfy the beginners, it needs an aggregated tool (med, wed, sed and real-time editor in one application). It needs some very good documentation, and an integrated new material editor with real-time feedback and shader support.
To satisfy the pro users it needs some optimization, an indoor scene-management (e.g. portals and zones) and more available platforms for publishing. At the moment it is a good choice for friends of scripting, for web-developers, experienced with HTML, JavaScript and similar, people who are not experienced enough with C++, C#. They will like LiteC and will feel comfortable. In most cases they will be hobby users. And they could easily wander to Unity.
So it is indeed a dangerous situation and GS needs a niche, like TGB with its 2d approach. It needs a feature to prove that it is unique at the market.
I think the makers of game dev suites can learn a lot from 3d modelling and rendering applications. There is a similar situation: many hobby users and some pro users. The ease of use of these tools steadily improved. Documentation and video tutorials are often integrated parts of new features.
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Re: Unity Indie is... Free? Xbox 360 Support Also Announced
[Re: maslone1]
#296366
10/31/09 12:02
10/31/09 12:02
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,441
ventilator
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,441
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Being a programming language instead of a scripting language, it should be faster than Unity's scripts there is no difference between "scripting" and "programming" languages. that's a totally arbitrary distinction. mono uses jit compiling and is very optimized and lite-c is not very optimized. lite-c also only has about 50% of the performance of really optimized c-compilers like the microsoft one. i would say mono and lite-c have about the same performance but with mono you can use more modern languages (like c# and boo) which will result in more productivity.
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Re: Unity Indie is... Free? Xbox 360 Support Also Announced
[Re: Why_Do_I_Die]
#296386
10/31/09 14:36
10/31/09 14:36
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
AlbertoT
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
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The ONLY way gamestudio could at this point compete with Unity will be by offering it's Pro version at a very discounted price , maybe something like $199 , where Unity is still over $1000. Cuz NOBODY in their right mind would buy Pro Gamestudio over Pro Unity I agree
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Re: Unity Indie is... Free? Xbox 360 Support Also Announced
[Re: AlbertoT]
#296405
10/31/09 17:41
10/31/09 17:41
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771 Bay City, MI
lostclimate
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
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I was surprised to read the reasons why they are giving Unity for free It seems that the cash flow generated by the the Indie version was negligible In other word a lot of the Unity3d users own the Pro version Strange, I guess that for 3dgs it is the other way round
I'm not sure where you got that but that is completely wrong, most of the people who use gs use either comm or pro. so its not the other way around. one of the other forum posts about unity was just talking about that. "Gamestudio could compete with unity just by making a more powerfull game engine" Well yeah , Gamestudio could beat Unity if it were to release A8 and it were some kind of beast full of new and handy features that would make Unity feel outdated. Only problem is , Unity did that exact same thing to Gamestudio a couple of years ago , and now it has given it's indie version for free , obliterating most of the current competition (I would say all), a very strategic and smart move by Unity I would say.
But could Gamestudio stay competitive with A8 ? Of course. Do I think it will ? Of course not. Is Unity the new king of indie engines ? In my opinion , definitely , for the time being at least , as no one knows what the future will bring. it did not devastate the other engines, gstudio com kills unity indie still and as far as ability, with enough skill, it can do as much as unity pro. I'm not sure where people keep acting like unity indie is a threat to people that were planning to buy a7 comm or pro, unity indie blows about as much as lite-c blows. yeah unity pro might have some reallllly crappy predefined shaders, but at the very least lite-c free can be extended which is wayyyyyyy better in my opinion.
Last edited by lostclimate; 10/31/09 17:47.
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Re: Unity Indie is... Free? Xbox 360 Support Also Announced
[Re: lostclimate]
#296409
10/31/09 18:00
10/31/09 18:00
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121 Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
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You wrote some false comments in your last post, lostclimate. Here is an interview where you can read that the indie version did not made too much money for the Unity makers: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25840"Unity Indie isn't generating a significant portion of our revenue, and we've always had this vision of democratizing our tools." And here is a blog about it: http://blogs.unity3d.com/"Unity Indie was a cool product... But also it’s not been a significant part of our business at all: Unity Pro, Unity Wii and Unity iPhone for the bulk of our (rapidly growing) livelyhood." gstudio com kills unity indie still and as far as ability, with enough skill, it can do as much as unity pro Yes, and the same pro users can make it with Ogre, Irrlicht or Unity Indie, while not spending money. The point of spending money is: getting a better work flow or a more powerful engine, better documentation and access to more platforms for your final product. You get what you pay for.
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