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Re: The Human Body - Ok Foolish Atheist, who made your body???
[Re: sebcrea]
#278618
07/14/09 19:37
07/14/09 19:37
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,043 Germany
Lukas
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Germany
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That's a good point. I've only been here 47 years, so who knows? I do know for sure that I've seen demons or evil spirits years ago and they did not have a brain, but they were very intelligent personalities.
Now the scary thing is that to realize is that "YES" they are intelligent, but how will they ever die? OMG ! eek A spirit never decays, so they won't die! Will they die in 1000 years?! Heck no! a million years? Nope! There's no time limit, so in the supernatural there is no time. So, to ask who or when was God created, is not a valid question.
I used to be an atheist. But, I was an atheist looking and talking with spirits <of whom i did not believe in!> Now I ask you guys, WHAT WOULD YOU DO? My friends were all seeing the same things too, it's not just me. Whatever you took when you saw the "spirits" stop taking it. But let's assume, what you say about spirits and gods is true. You say they live forever. So they live for an infinite time. Now you say time does not exist. This does not make sense. You mix up infinity and zero. That's an infinite error! So if god has been living forever, there must have been an infinite time BEFORE he created us! So he waited an infinite time! What did he wait for? And what caused him to create us? He could have waited longer or briefer. And when did he start to wait? Never, because he has always existed and all the time he has existed he has waited and planned to make us; so god living forever does not make sense. If god living forever does not make sense, he must be designed, because he must be complex because he designed us, so god does need a designer! And who designed the designer of god, who is, as you claim, our designer? If I drop a teapot, like the one, that orbits the sun, it will shatter, and there will be shards. The exact way these shards are arranged on the floor is complex and it's unlikely that they will arrange the exact same way if I drop an other teapot again. You say, everything that is compley needs a designer. So is the way the shards are lying designed?
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Re: The Human Body - Ok Foolish Atheist, who made your body???
[Re: Lukas]
#278619
07/14/09 19:48
07/14/09 19:48
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,134 Netherlands
Joozey
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And a great example of Lukas about the teapot. So I think we can safely say something complex is not necessary designed. God did not design the pattern of shards on the floor of the broken teapot, nor did he design a rock because the ant doesn't understand why it's hard, and nor did he create the human being because we can't understand how we got here. Those are NOT the reasons anything is designed by whoever.
Now, if you would state: "'God' designed the universe just before the very start. He arranged the energy before the big bang in such a way that we now walk here on planet earth.", then a lot more people would find your argumentation plausible. A possibility that may be true. One would find it more unlikely than another, but in fact, chances are 50/50 that it happened this way. As long as we have no clue whatsoever, it's a 50/50 chance to us.
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Re: The Human Body - Ok Foolish Atheist, who made your body???
[Re: Lukas]
#278648
07/14/09 22:49
07/14/09 22:49
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,134 Netherlands
Joozey
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Well... yes, I was confusing the chances that it may be a possibility with the chances that it is a fact. It's either something arranging the energy, or nothing arranging the energy. We can't really tell, thus 50%. But indeed it's getting out of scope.
I'd vote for the spaghetti monster though.
Last edited by Joozey; 07/14/09 22:51.
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Re: The Human Body - Ok Foolish Atheist, who made your body???
[Re: Joozey]
#278656
07/14/09 23:37
07/14/09 23:37
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682 Coppell, Texas
Ran Man
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Well okay, but the shards from the teapot are useless yes? The teapot cannot hold anymore tea. This example resembles the examples of present day DNA cloning. it's only a destruction and mutation of something that used to be complex. and i'm still waiting for conitec to give me that free download. they are the gods around this forum. <there are many gods> they can do it. <just joking> or else A7 <the lower complex> was really designed and the human body was not designed. <the higher complexity>
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Re: The Human Body - Ok Foolish Atheist, who made your body???
[Re: sPlKe]
#278744
07/15/09 12:44
07/15/09 12:44
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,565 innsbruck, austria
achaziel
Serious User
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Serious User
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innsbruck, austria
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good to see that all evidence i bring up is completely ignored... i know what you mean spike... *pat*
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Re: The Human Body - Ok Foolish Atheist, who made your body???
[Re: Ran Man]
#278776
07/15/09 15:12
07/15/09 15:12
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177 Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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hi, did you see some 'tools' lying around somewhere? no, but everything else all around us that is complex is designed. We do know that for sure. You'd be surprised how often we don't really know whether it was designed or not. A lot of natural processes can make objects look like they were designed. Oldest example in the book are of course rocks that look like faces, but were never touched by human tools. Interpreting such rocks as man-made would be false, but not illogical if you don't do more research. Yes, well for some reason, the typical atheist overlooks that fact and assumes the vastly complex human body is not designed. You still haven't responded to why it must be designed. Complexity says nothing about whether it must be designed or not, in fact.. most inventions are actually amazingly simple. Aren't those designed too? Why overlook the fact that everything else complicated has a designer?
We're not overlooking the complexity at all, we're just convinced it's not a given fact that everything that must be complex must have been designed. In fact, you're overlooking how evolution shaped us into what we are now. You could call this a passive design (evolution has no aim), but it doesn't mean some higher being must have designed us. In fact, it makes no sense, as it would mean he created a universe, gave it a kick and billions of years later we came into existence. Doesn't sound very plausible to me at all, especially knowing how evolution is a process that still goes on until this very day. We are by far not yet the 'end product', in fact there's no such thing as an 'end product'. Maybe all of us should all ask ourselves and further the atheist logic. Our logic is based upon knowledge and we're not assuming weird, physically impossible things though. If all complexity needs no designer, then therefore maybe 3dgamestudio version A7 was not designed either? It was not designed by anybody. We can talk to the developers, we can understand the tools involved, we have some sight into what has been developed when..... all that in itself is more than enough proof of it being designed. Remember... we can't talk to God, we don't have a clue what he could possibly have used to create anything, nor do we really have a good view onto when he created what (after all, most creationists believe our earth isn't billions of years old, which leads to an obvious problem following this kind of logic.) In that case, we should all be demanding free downloads of the PRO version from conitec. After all, they did not design it and it was only a product of time. It should be free public domain work then... It was only a product of the environment. That's exactly true for humans. No human nor designer holds a copyright on our species. Okay, i'm waiting for my free download now. lol Where's da link? There is no God and it won't miraculously post links to a software program either.
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Re: The Human Body - Ok Foolish Atheist, who made your body???
[Re: achaziel]
#278799
07/15/09 16:36
07/15/09 16:36
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,134 Netherlands
Joozey
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good to see that all evidence i bring up is completely ignored... i know what you mean spike... *pat* Yup, truly common quite-fundamentalistic-christian-online-forum-user behaviour it seems
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