Well PHeMoX , maybe thats because you've missed the whole point of the conversation. And I've never been the "gamestudio sucks" type , in fact ,the complete opposite, but I'd have to be blind not to see the differences between the current gamestudio and torque versions , it's like the torque people logged into the gamestudio forums , read the user requested features , and added them to torque , while the conitec people just had a good laugh and completely ignored them.