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This seems to base on a not-understanding of how chance in combination with restricting conditions and repetition in time and space leads to measurable probabilities which can be observered even in short-range processes and which is already used in many creative processes.

Or, you cannot bear the possibility of 'senseless' chance as one of the ingredients of life and creativity, at all.



I dont really understand your "measurable probablitites" and "repetition in time and space", but you are correct in stating that it is "chance combined with restricting conditions"

I am sorry to see this thread degrade into what some of you have made it. Obviously some of you are so flustered that you cant seem to think straight. However, none of this rhetoric is intelligent at all. Concentrate on the facts. What do you know about evolution really?

No answer? Thats ok I will try to bring you up to speed with as much patience and kindness as I can muster. The first issue: Chance and probability. How is chance involved? Are mutations random? What causes mutation?

Mutations occur either from 1)inheritance from parents (mom and dad are mutants) or 2)acquired during the lifetime by environmental factors(radiation,etc) or through copying errors made during cell division.

Chance or random? Yes mutation is random if it has been acquired during your lifetime, but mutation is not so random if you have acquired it from your parents through inheritance.

So we can clearly see that mutation itself is very well explained as "random"

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Now natural selection is not_random_at_all. Natural selection is a very real, testable, observable scientific phenomena which arises from every species struggle for existence and survival. Natural selection is the process whereby favorable inheritable characteristics are selected as a result of whatever conditions of the environment would allow that species to survive.

**However you must understand the relationship between natural selection and mutation, if you do not understand this relationship, you will never understand evolution and creationists which accuse you of "not knowing your own theory" will be quite correct. So it is very important to understand that natural selection cannot work without mutation Why? Because natural selection can only select for traits which exist in the "gene pool". As an example, the galapagos finch cannot select for different beak shape without the genes for that beak shape existing in its own gene pool to begin with. How did the genes get in there to begin with? Through mutation.(as the theory states)

So you are going to appear stupid to creationists and evolutionists alike if you dont understand that evolution is really part random/part natural selection.

To recapitulate. The mutations themselves arise randomly, the selection is based on environment and other factors.

This is just the very beginning of it. A basic definition of the term "genome" is in order. The "genome" of an organism is the sum total of all of its parts, including all of its chromosomes, genes, and nucleotides.

The genome really is the instruction manual which specifies life. There is no information system which is designed by man that can begin to compare with it.

The reductionism seen by some evolutionists on this forum is staggering. Phemox had told me that "complexity means nada". To me that really can be interpreted to mean that you simply dont know anything about the genome and the real peices of this puzzle.

The genome is very complex, so complex that it can only be appreciated in terms of how much it contains. A genome is the instruction manual of life, it details how an organisms body will be built. The specified complexity of even a small bacterium's genome is arguably as great as that of the space shuttle.

Now compare that the jump from the complexity of a bacterium's genome to a human's genome is probably about the jump from a little red wagon's instruction manual to a space shuttle's instruction manual. Not only including the steps to put the parts together, also the steps required to manufacture the steel, plastic and all the peices and also to deliver them to the place of assembly. There is simply no human technology which can make an adequate analogy for the complexity of human life.

So therefore:
1)complexity does not mean nada

Now listen because Phemox has said that I havent presented any evidence of intelligent design, well now I am just beginning to give such evidence so please pay attention. This is not something your going to understand from a one-sentence reply on a forum. You have no idea how much knowledge I have about this subject, it would probably astound you. What I am going to do is just gloss over the main points of genomic complexity, and I will end the post with a question.

So the complexity of the genome itself is astounding and many scientists call it the "book of life" because it contains all of the instructions that we need to live. This "book" is a linear sequence of 4 types of extremely small molecules called "nucleotides". These nucleotides make up the individual steps of the spiral DNA staircase. These individual steps are the "letters" of the "book of life". In the human genome there are two sets of 3 billion of these nucleotides and only a small fraction of them are used to encode the roughly 100,000 functional proteins of the human body and the countless amounts of rna molecules which essentially act as these marvelously complex miniature machines.

This linear information alone is only the first dimension of complexity within the genome. The genome is not just a linear string of information, it is actually multiple linear codes which overlap and constitute an exceedingly complex information system.

It also has a self-regulating, recursive type of inbuilt management system which is full of countless loops and branches like a computer program. It has genes which regulate genes which regulate other genes. Some genes sense changes in the environment, and then instruct other genes to react by setting in motion complex cascades of events that can modify the body's environment.

To top it all off, DNA folds into two and three dimensional folds and such folding probably encodes even higher levels of information.

The bottom line is that the genomes instructions are not just a simple, static, linear set of nucleotides, but also a self-regulating, three dimensional system of the likes of which is simply not seen in any human made information system. The genome's highest level of interaction and information coding is probably beyond human comprehension The human body is filled with a galaxy of 100 trillion cells with each one carrying a complete copy of this "DNA manual" which, as Carl Sagan said, is probably the equivalent to more than all the books in the library of congress. The burning question is this:

Where did all this information come from? And how can it be maintained?